Champion counters are not the end of all things

Mira Arya Enthe··12 votes·830 views

I keep seeing people on the boards like

"Oh well this champions is good at x but if you pick this other champion they get shit on!" or "Well you should never pick this champion if you see the enemy team has this other champion."

And many other examples.

To be honest few things annoy me more. Because I would rather my 5000 game Katarina main pick Kat into Malzahar than have her try Swain for the first time in Ranked just because he counters Malzahar.

I main Shyvana(if the boards haven't noticed yet). I will pick her against Yi, Xin Zhao and Shaco. Even though they counter her. Because I have more of a chance of beating them on Shyvana, than if I just decided to become a Jax jungler to counter Yi.

You can always play around a champion, you can always learn ways to counter build them, you can always rely on your team and play it out till late/mid game. Or roam and be of use elsewhere while avoiding them. And so forth. What you cannot do is magically gain hundreds of games of experience on a new champion just to counter pick another.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2332079241/48865711 http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2331807634/48865711 http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2332153510/48865711 http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2319532010/48865711 I am better off picking the champion I know and am good at. Than some random counterpick. I say this specifically in response to comments like: "Why pick Shyvana into Vi?" "Why pick Shyvana into Shaco?" Among others. Simple, I and my team are better off with me playing a champion I am good at. Counters aren't the end of the world. Again, they can be built around and played around. Glad I got that off my chest. Now off to work.

16 Comments

Handy Sandy 4 votes

Then there's always that one post saying stuff like "How do you beat x champion?" and nobody provides counterplay, just a list of champions.

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

Yeh. I fucking hate that. Like... If I picked Garen, I'm asking how to play AROUND the Quinn who counter picked me. Not for a mobafire list of Quinn counters.

SlntReaper1 votes

Like Yi. I always ask how to counter him and people say CC or don't. And I'm all like wat cc isnt specific.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Some champions are far more vulnerable to CC than others.

Olaf, Mundo and Nunu couldn't care less if you CC them. It doesn't affect them too badly and it means you are wasting your CC.

Champions such as Master Yi, Katarina and Vayne are pretty much helpless when CCed since it prevents their damage and mobility, leaving them helpless.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

There are champions like Illaoi which have very few direct counterpicks to being with, as she is literally designed to win lane. Her early game is so strong that unless you have something with an early game as strong as her, like Darius or Renekton, you are not going to counterpick her.

However, there are a lot of counterplay options for her. For example, I play Vladimir against her not because I want to stomp her on lane, but because he has as much sustain as her, is ranged (can destroy her tentacles from a safe distance), is manaless (can win the attrition battle against her in the long run, as she has moderate mana costs) and his pool can be used both to dodge her Test of Spirit and to run away if she ults. It helps that I am very good with Vladimir.

Yes, I technically listed a counterpick. But I've also said some things that can help to counter Illaoi in lane. For example, being ranged brings you a significant advantage against Illaoi. Not only you have an easier time trading with her, but you can also destroy her tentacles from a safe distance.

Being manaless can also help as in the long run, Illaoi must try to conserve mana. Unless she rush something like Iceborn Gauntlet, she actually has moderate mana costs, and cannot simply spam her abilities carelessy. Manaless champions have the best chance of taking advantage of that.

I didn't mentioned that earlier, but Illaoi fares poorly against very mobile champions as most of her damage is tied to skillshots, and she is very immobile too. Also, ganking her pre-6 is a good idea as she has no escapes and without her ult she can't 1x2 enemies.

There are a number of champions that do not have many direct counterpicks but have a lot of other counterplay options. Other than Illaoi, another good example is Pantheon. He is also know for being an early game god. Like Illaoi, he also lacks mobility. However, he also has much worse mana issues, lacks sustain, cannot build tanky (at least not if he wants to do damage by mid/late game) and falls off even harder. At least he is more reliable (no skillshots, so he is easier to use)

That said, there are very few champions which can directly counter him in lane, but he has a lot of counterplay. Start item 1029 + 4 item 2003 for example. This should reduce his damage early and allow you to better survive. Your goal is not to win this lane, but to survive until you can outscale Pantheon. If you can built tanky, buy a item 3068. This item is amazing against Pantheon, as it offers HP (Pantheon buys lot of armor penetration early, so HP is your best bet at countering him, but armor is still a good option against him). It also offers waveclear, as Pantheon's waveclear isn't that amazing early. Ganking Pantheon will reduce the amount of pressure he can put in lane, and unlike Illaoi, he has no 1x2 potential, so ganking will be his bane if he is not fed.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Usually, people just start making excuses when counter-play is provided.

If I start listing champions who counter them, then I'm either (1) providing examples or (2) I've given up on the person asking and try to provide something they can't easily screw up.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

the main difference is actually more this to be honest, If you're playing a relatively simple champion, using them to counter someone instead of your main is a good idea (Assuming you aren't first timing). It's pretty easy to play jax and shit on yi.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

However, you have to look at it this way too. You're not a Jax main, and he is a Yi main. He would have come across situations where he needed to deal with counters, meaning he probably knows how to play against a Jax. And that's skilled Yi vs unskilled Jax... so guess who's probably going to do better?

GULAG 4 U1 votes

In that case yeah, but you would have to assume the enenmy is playing their main.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

In this case, you picked Jax to counter him, meaning he probably picked first. Unless he was picking it to counter someone above you, it is likely that you are the one who counterpicked, while he was picking what he played best.

RavenMagus1 votes

Play a champion enough times and you learn that counters are often not even that good.

Take Katarina, for instance. I'd pick her any day into a team full of CC because the enemy team is always full of CC. But when that CC is on squishy champions like Sona or Nami or Malzahar or Syndra... Then it's a good time for Katarina because you can kill them all before they CC you.

And then many times their CC is on tanky champions with long cooldown ults, like Sejuani or Malphite. Kat can still do her job, it just takes more careful play.

I think the only champion I wouldn't pick Kat into is Lulu. Lulu is really the worst - she CCs you while also turning her team's squishies into tanks.

SpookyNeedle1 votes

I pick Fiora into Pantheon 99% of the time

I can usually beat average pantheons, and if I lose I know how to play from behind

Raiku Kawisa1 votes

I don't simply 'play' champions. I learn them and i do that over the course of a massive amount of games. With 1/2 million on Shyvana myself (no idea how many games that is) I am comfortable playing her into just about any matchup. There is nowhere she is really 'bad' for me. I'm starting to get the same thing on Vi as I get close to breaking 100k on the Enforcer.

Existential Bard1 votes

Maybe Riot could have it show the mastery level aI player has on a champion in champ select to their team only. This way people wouldn't flip as much. I am lvl 7 bard, but have literally had people on my team flip when I pick bard mid. >.<

it be lìke that1 votes

"saying first timing this champ" swings this wildly in your favor, you eliminated all counter points. when there are actually a lot without that 1 statement. not to mention, nothing is a counter in silver, except maybe garen into shitty rivens.

IceKingChernobog1 votes

Kat counters malz? I thought it was the other way around.

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