The sharp spike in getting autofilled JG should be a wakeup call to Riot

Tuition Fee·Mar 27, 2019·97 votes·21,890 views

You just gutted a role that already wasn't popular. By now, I get the impression that even support is a more played role than JG. There was no reason to continuously nerf JG. Monster Hunter debuff for junglers was already enough to prevent gold funneling, there was no reason to gut camp exp and respawn time. Doing so to force junglers to appear in lane more often is actually harmful, because:

-Invades are much more impactful and difficult to recover from (How are you going to make up for that gold and EXP, especially with Monster Hunter?) -If you're behind, it's harder to employ the strategy of "Just farm and let the team carry" because your camp respawn time will never be fast enough, nor will your camps be worth enough for you to catch up -Some junglers may try to mooch exp or some farm off of their laners when behind, which just pisses the laner off and sets them both back -You just reduced the viable, meta champion pool for junglers, for a role that already has a small meta champion pool

JG was already tough enough before, and got so much blame when games went wrong. Please, buff the role or revert some changes.

138 Comments

GalaxyburstzMar 27, 201953 votes

As a former jungle main this spoke to my heart

RekseeMar 27, 20197 votes

{quoted}

As a former jungle main this spoke to my heart

Former

I think that alone says so much about what has happened.

Frosted TipsMar 27, 201941 votes

It is what happens when Riot has no clue how to balance the jungle. Also when your allies blame you for everything no matter how well you play. Also the role that requires the most reliance on your own team does not help.

MysticShakerMar 27, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGAHMEbn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-03-27T00:31:25.749+0000)

It is what happens when Riot has no clue how to balance the jungle. Also when your allies blame you for everything no matter how well you play. Also the role that requires the most reliance on your own team does not help.

To be honest they have no clue in anything related to this game.

6KEMBE4ORBAMar 27, 20193 votes

Riot doesn't how to balance the game.*

The thigh guyMar 27, 201932 votes

Holy shit. So I’m not the only one getting filled into jungle constantly?

Tuition FeeMar 27, 201918 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGAHMEbn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-27T00:47:34.258+0000)

Holy shit. So I’m not the only one getting filled into jungle constantly?

Nope. I've been filled jg more than supp.

The thigh guyMar 27, 201910 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGAHMEbn,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-03-27T01:04:50.448+0000)

Nope. I've been filled jg more than supp.

I guess that’s what happens when riot nerfs a roles resources so much they become a second support, that has to put in significantly more effort to get the same amount of gold as the actual support.

Dengus KhanMar 27, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGAHMEbn,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-03-27T01:04:50.448+0000)

Nope. I've been filled jg more than supp.

Dude I queue for support fill and still get put in the jg.

Quantified THCMar 27, 20192 votes

Everything finally makes sense. I haven't gotten my main role in forever cause I pick jungle as 2nd..... now I know why.

EleshakaiMar 28, 20191 votes

No but you're in the only region where that'd be the case ;)

For some reason NA players have started hating jungle on an epic scale. But just NA. Other regions it has decreased a tiny bit, but not enough to make a difference in fill rates. But in NA it is ALMOST as unpopular as support. Almost.

TokishiApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No but you're in the only region where that'd be the case ;)

For some reason NA players have started hating jungle on an epic scale. But just NA. Other regions it has decreased a tiny bit, but not enough to make a difference in fill rates. But in NA it is ALMOST as unpopular as support. Almost.

support is most popular role in NA, that and maybe ADC, no one likes jungle because it is basically adc except you have 4 other supports. That's why champs like nunu, cho, sej, trundle, and whatever dead beat tank are rising in picks is because they don't require items to scale or be helpful. Same for hecarim, your e is based off movement speed, all you need is boots and you one shot most anyone pre 6

EleshakaiApr 13, 20191 votes

This is factually incorrect.

Riot posted graphs of play-by-role separated by region. Support was least popular in virtually every region. In some regions, support was below fill.

Hayaishi2Mar 27, 201916 votes

The role feels like complete garbage to play yet it pretty much decides the game. League Of Legends has gotten out of Riot's hands. They don't know how to balance it.

JamareeMar 27, 201912 votes

Oh boo hoo, your lives are so hard, it isn’t like other roles don’t have hardships either, get over yourselves.

Tuition FeeMar 27, 201947 votes

{quoted}

Oh boo hoo, your lives are so hard, it isn’t like other roles don’t have hardships either, get over yourselves.

I don't play JG...

JamareeMar 27, 201912 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGAHMEbn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T00:25:34.230+0000)

I don't play JG...

I’m just fucking tired of jungle mains complaining about how hard shit is and acting like it isn’t hard for everywhere else.

Why is it the laners are expected to go out of their way to help them when they are getting invaded, putting themselves behind to do so most of the time, yet junglers aren’t expected to them gank afterwards?

Why are they allowed to have an entire area they can farm without interaction at all and if they are, are then expected to also get help?

Why does no one else remember the cancer of junglers getting to be level 3 full life from getting both their major buffs while laners were still at level two.

I’m just getting tired of this constant whining about junglers having it so fucking hard and acting like they are these second class citizens when they have so much shit slanted towards them.

Is it fair they get blamed if the laners are shit? God no, but it isn’t fair that they think hey should just be able to mindlessly carry anyway if they do nothing when the other jungler is ganking, nor is it fair that they should expect to just be able to carry every game just because they are the jungle, downvote me for it but fuck it, I’m tired of the constant bitch about their perceived weakness

WatafoolMar 27, 201932 votes

{quoted}

I’m just fucking tired of jungle mains complaining about how hard shit is and acting like it isn’t hard for everywhere else.

Why is it the laners are expected to go out of their way to help them when they are getting invaded, putting themselves behind to do so most of the time, yet junglers aren’t expected to them gank afterwards?

Why are they allowed to have an entire area they can farm without interaction at all and if they are, are then expected to also get help?

Why does no one else remember the cancer of junglers getting to be level 3 full life from getting both their major buffs while laners were still at level two.

I’m just getting tired of this constant whining about junglers having it so fucking hard and acting like they are these second class citizens when they have so much shit slanted towards them.

Is it fair they get blamed if the laners are shit? God no, but it isn’t fair that they think hey should just be able to mindlessly carry anyway if they do nothing when the other jungler is ganking, nor is it fair that they should expect to just be able to carry every game just because they are the jungle, downvote me for it but fuck it, I’m tired of the constant bitch about their perceived weakness

I'm not sure if you know this, but League of Legends is a team based game. That means that you should work together with your team to increase your chances of victory!

If the enemy jungler is invading a couple of things are happening that perhaps you haven't realized.

1.) If your jungler is a worse duelist compared to the enemy jungler then your junglers options are A.) Give the enemy jungler a kill plus your team's jungle farm or B.) Give the enemy jungler your teams jungle farm. Neither of these options are good as both of them put your jungler as a disadvantage making their overall impact on ALL of your lanes worse (under levelled, under farmed).

2.) The enemy jungler is far away from the safety of their team and towers. If the enemy jungler is invading, that means that your team should reliably be able to collapse on them and get a kill. At the very least it will put the enemy jungler behind because they then wasted a lot of time going into your jungle and coming out of it with nothing. If your team does get a kill, regardless of who gets it, this gives your team an advantage! 300 bonus gold closer to their next item.

This should make it very easy to see which options is better. For the overall good of your team, it's much preferable to lose a few cs and help out your jungler, than to let them rot and suffer. The further behind they get, the easier it is for the enemy jungler to keep invading, pushing your jungler further and further behind, and the less overall impact your jungler has in ganks or on the game itself.

JamareeMar 27, 201910 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure if you know this, but League of Legends is a team based game. That means that you should work together with your team to increase your chances of victory!

Yes, it is indeed a team game, but there is also a micro level that you need to understand that hurts you and your own performance and could equally lose you the game because you put yourself behind, even better when you do that and then said jungler doesn’t come to help you afterwards.

If the enemy jungler is invading a couple of things are happening that perhaps you haven't realized.

1.) If your jungler is a worse duelist compared to the enemy jungler then your junglers options are A.) Give the enemy jungler a kill plus your team's jungle farm or B.) Give the enemy jungler your teams jungle farm. Neither of these options are good as both of them put your jungler as a disadvantage making their overall impact on ALL of your lanes worse (under levelled, under farmed).

What if you are a bad duelist as well, ok so they went into the jungle to push back the jungler, we didn’t get a kill, and now the Laner I was denying or going even with now has the advantage because I went and helped you, so you are gonna gank now, oh you don’t gank even though I helped you then blame me for losing lane then, ok.

2.) The enemy jungler is far away from the safety of their team and towers. If the enemy jungler is invading, that means that your team should reliably be able to collapse on them and get a kill. At the very least it will put the enemy jungler behind because they then wasted a lot of time going into your jungle and coming out of it with nothing. If your team does get a kill, regardless of who gets it, this gives your team an advantage! 300 bonus gold closer to their next item.

This should make it very easy to see which options is better. For the overall good of your team, it's much preferable to lose a few cs and help out your jungler, than to let them rot and suffer. The further behind they get, the easier it is for the enemy jungler to keep invading, pushing your jungler further and further behind, and the less overall impact your jungler has in ganks or on the game itself.

And this doesn’t happen to laners? If you think all a Laner loses is “some cs” by coming to help, you obviously don’t lane. There is pressure, resources spent from both life and mana, gold lost, pressure your opponent is able to get, the list goes on.

I’m not saying don’t help your jungle, I’m saying stop this bullshit pity party of junglers have it so rough and not act like laners don’t have to deal with much of the same bullshit.

WatafoolMar 27, 201918 votes

{quoted} What if you are a bad duelist as well, ok so they went into the jungle to push back the jungler, we didn’t get a kill, and now the Laner I was denying or going even with now has the advantage because I went and helped you, so you are gonna gank now, oh you don’t gank even though I helped you then blame me for losing lane then, ok.

It shouldn't be laner vs enemy jungler. Ideally it'll be laner + allied jungler vs enemy jungler and unless both allied players are very unskilled, the enemy jungler has no reason to come out of that situation successful.

And It's possible they might not come to your lane to gank, yes. But making the game 4v5 by effectively cutting off all resources from your jungler, by not creating any counter pressure on the invading jungler, certainly isn't going to be better. What do you expect your underlevelled jungler to do if they cant get any gold and xp in their jungle? Do you want them to come leach xp and gold from your lane? They're going to have a difficult time trying to fight for dragon.

And this doesn’t happen to laners? If you think all a Laner loses is “some cs” by coming to help, you obviously don’t lane. There is pressure, resources spent from both life and mana, gold lost, pressure your opponent is able to get, the list goes on.

I’m not saying don’t help your jungle, I’m saying stop this bullshit pity party of junglers have it so rough and not act like laners don’t have to deal with much of the same bullshit.

The difference in lane is that your opponent doesn't get to kill your minions. You always have those available to farm for gold and xp. Sure you might lose some lane pressure, but losing lane pressure isn't going to completely gimp you from the rest of the game. And like I said before, while you're losing lane pressure, the enemy jungler is also losing time spent unsuccessfully going into your jungle so it's not a wasted effort.

JamareeMar 27, 20194 votes

{quoted}

It shouldn't be laner vs enemy jungler. Ideally it'll be laner + allied jungler vs enemy jungler and unless both allied players are very unskilled, the enemy jungler has no reason to come out of that situation successful.

And It's possible they might not come to your lane to gank, yes. But making the game 4v5 by effectively cutting off all resources from your jungler, by not creating any counter pressure on the invading jungler, certainly isn't going to be better. What do you expect your underlevelled jungler to do if they cant get any gold and xp in their jungle? Do you want them to come leach xp and gold from your lane? They're going to have a difficult time trying to fight for dragon.

Idk, what do jungles expect laners to do after putting themselves behind then not helping them as the opponent snowballs?

The difference in lane is that your opponent doesn't get to kill your minions. You always have those available to farm for gold and xp. Sure you might lose some lane pressure, but losing lane pressure isn't going to completely gimp you from the rest of the game. And like I said before, while you're losing lane pressure, the enemy jungler is also losing time spent unsuccessfully going into your jungle so it's not a wasted effort.

It might actually, those minions and gold lost can be the difference between being lvl 5 and 6 and your opponent able to snowball off your death from that. I also ask again, so they are losing time, but the opponent laner is getting free time to push you out of the game, why does that not matter?

DecapitationKingMar 27, 201910 votes

{quoted}

Idk, what do jungles expect laners to do after putting themselves behind then not helping them as the opponent snowballs?

It might actually, those minions and gold lost can be the difference between being lvl 5 and 6 and your opponent able to snowball off your death from that. I also ask again, so they are losing time, but the opponent laner is getting free time to push you out of the game, why does that not matter?

Jungle main here, just started this new account because I took a 2 year break and wanted a fresh start, I'm not a great player but I was plat 4, 2 seasons ago, so I'm not horrible.

I gotta say, with the changes to jungle it really puts the pressure on people playing a high mobility champ with Good fast kill speed, and strong early game. Jarvan 4 and Lee sin I'm talking about you. Champs that if left to their own devices in skilled hands will eat just about any jungle other than Jax( I hate Jax) you as a laser absolutely have to stop them from invading and killing your jungle and then free farming their jungle farm. I can't tell you how many lvl 2 kills I get on the enemy when they are going for their blue or red buff, then after that I just farm their farm and kill them, if the laners don't come to stop me early on then I'll be fed enough that they can't mess with me either. Then I will always have a free farm on their jungle, I'll keep deep wards in their bushes, have the pressure to more or less safely gank any lane, take objectives et. Then the hard lane ganks and quick snowball hits. Especially if we're talking in lower elo where warding isn't the best.

On the games where I'm getting hard pressured from the opposing jungle, like if they have a stupid Good Lee sin, if you come roam down for me, give me some push back and maybe a kill or at least enough pressure he can't free farm my jungle. I as a jungle will be appreciative and make sure to gank for you and try and feed you.

About 80% of my games that I win jungle hard and shut down the opposing jungle my team wins. And almost every game if I get shutdown hard and get no help or pushback from the team we lose.

Granted there's the games where neither jungle snow balls, but it almost a guaranteed loss if your jg is shut down hard at lower elo

AlexisTheDragonApr 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGAHMEbn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-27T00:25:34.230+0000)

I don't play JG...

Wow...match history, you really don't.

Respect for the truth.

General Esdeath Mar 27, 201910 votes

{quoted}

Oh boo hoo, your lives are so hard, it isn’t like other roles don’t have hardships either, get over yourselves.

As a fellow top laner, you of all people should understand why role targeted nerfs are an issue...

JamareeMar 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

As a fellow top laner, you of all people should understand why role targeted nerfs are an issue...

It isn't anywhere near as bad as they are making it out to be though, let's be honest here.

NnarurulokiMar 27, 20196 votes

But it is as bad as we are making it out to be. They first nerf our exp gain from all camps. Then they make it pretty much mandatory for the jungle to get at least one of the two scuttler crabs and if you miss out on both you are severally behind since most likely the enemy jungler will have level 3 while you are still level 2. On top of that once both scuttlers are gone only one will spawn after and if you don't have that control you are most likely behind. Second they decide to announce when both your buffs are spawning meaning if you aren't on top of them when they spawn the enemy can easily just steal it away. Thirdly jungle is already one of the hardest roles to play catch up on so even one successful invade can set you back tremendously, and if no one came to help that said jungler the enemy now knows they can easily keep doing this because there is no counter pressure from the team. So when you wanna complain and say "oh but my lead and advantage" it doesn't hurt you that hard it's actually more beneficial to you to help because that opens up free ganks and towers. Also unlike other lanes if jungle falls behind he can't just ask for help to catch up (i.e jungle ganks) I have had plenty of games where a lane was doing terrible and a few hard camps from the jungle brought them back. However with jungle when that happens you are on your own with low gold and long respawn timers on your camps while simultaneously having to fight off your most likely annoyed teammates who aren't happy that you are in no position to help their lane (mainly found in low elo). Not only that laners have zero hesitation taking your jungle while simultaneously getting mad at you for taking farm, how is that fair at any point.

TokishiApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

But it is as bad as we are making it out to be. They first nerf our exp gain from all camps. Then they make it pretty much mandatory for the jungle to get at least one of the two scuttler crabs and if you miss out on both you are severally behind since most likely the enemy jungler will have level 3 while you are still level 2. On top of that once both scuttlers are gone only one will spawn after and if you don't have that control you are most likely behind. Second they decide to announce when both your buffs are spawning meaning if you aren't on top of them when they spawn the enemy can easily just steal it away. Thirdly jungle is already one of the hardest roles to play catch up on so even one successful invade can set you back tremendously, and if no one came to help that said jungler the enemy now knows they can easily keep doing this because there is no counter pressure from the team. So when you wanna complain and say "oh but my lead and advantage" it doesn't hurt you that hard it's actually more beneficial to you to help because that opens up free ganks and towers. Also unlike other lanes if jungle falls behind he can't just ask for help to catch up (i.e jungle ganks) I have had plenty of games where a lane was doing terrible and a few hard camps from the jungle brought them back. However with jungle when that happens you are on your own with low gold and long respawn timers on your camps while simultaneously having to fight off your most likely annoyed teammates who aren't happy that you are in no position to help their lane (mainly found in low elo). Not only that laners have zero hesitation taking your jungle while simultaneously getting mad at you for taking farm, how is that fair at any point.

yeah, people act like jungle is a solo role and wonder why you're years behind when their team actually roams for scuttle or to invade your jungle. Like mages that just last hit mid when you're being invaded are 90% of why I see games diamond and below lose so bad. People are completely oblivious to the current state of jungle

ValiantKillerMar 27, 201912 votes

I mean that what you get when they don't want to nerfs champions like XinZhao LeeSin etc level 2 ganks kits over nerfing the jg itself

1234713548145821Mar 27, 201911 votes

Another problem with jungle is how different it is compared to laning and how awful it feels to get autofilled in to jg. When a laner gets autofilled it's not that bad because its the same playstyle just on another part of the map. Playing 10th time jungle against someone who mains jg makes it nearly impossible to come out on top, especially in higher elo's where players know how to abuse autofilled jglers more

BigFBearMar 27, 20197 votes

Actually you literally can't gank mid or top in early game anymore in most of the games because they are 2-3 lvls above you untill you can catch up around lvl 8-10. Often top or mid is lvl 7 when I am not even 6. That's why I camp bot all game.

DecapitationKingMar 27, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Actually you literally can't gank mid or top in early game anymore in most of the games because they are 2-3 lvls above you untill you can catch up around lvl 8-10. Often top or mid is lvl 7 when I am not even 6.

I normally try and gank top and or mid at lvl 3. Whichever lane has the better setup. Only get a kill 25-50% of the time but at least get 1 summoner spell or better basically Everytime on those early ganks. Long as you don't over commit and just hit them with a decent combo like j4 eqw and an auto it's a good half their health plus a summoner, gives your lane great early pressure and cost you just some seconds and some mana. Toss out some vision for your laner and off into the jungle you go. After lvl 3 you will be behind in levels most the game unless your snowballing

YennMar 27, 20197 votes

There needs to be some sort of anti-invasion mechanic to making jungling from behind, or with lanes who can't defend your jungle, possible.

If you get something like a Soraka + Ezreal bottom lane and your mid lane is counter-picked, your entire bottom jungle and dragon becomes semi-permanently unavailable after your first clear. Or if you're not a good early game duelist and you get invaded. Once you're behind, the enemy team has carte blanche of your jungle, and you can't stop it. This leaves you with no way to catch up on gold or EXP.

The champion pool is severely limited, because being able to either fight or escape the meta junglers is a requirement for viability. Which is also another issue, meta jungle match ups are too binary. Every duel comes out to the one who attacks first winning, or one champion flat out losing no matter what. There's little to no skill component.

GigglesOMar 27, 20196 votes

I'll say it again and again.

The solution is actually to just lower damage.

Kills are harder to get jungle is harder to clear cs is harder to get Towers are harder to push towers are harder to dive Team fights happen Instadying is lower

blah blah blah

Riot just won't do the one thing that this game needs.

BlackTecnoMar 27, 20198 votes

{quoted}

I'll say it again and again.

The solution is actually to just lower damage.

Kills are harder to get jungle is harder to clear cs is harder to get Towers are harder to push towers are harder to dive Team fights happen Instadying is lower

blah blah blah

Riot just won't do the one thing that this game needs.

Did you say MORE DAMAGE?

Tuition FeeMar 27, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Did you say MORE DAMAGE?

We understand that damage is a bit high, so we're adding a new defensive option; SHIELD BASH!

DeadUnbornMar 27, 20191 votes

the solutions isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be. if you lower damage too much you encourage lanes to be very passive, since essentially you would get nothing out of attacking your opponent... that results in very stale games that are no fun

GigglesOMar 27, 20192 votes

if you lower damage too much

too much

We aren't anywhere close to that.

PaffWasTakenMar 27, 20196 votes

As someone who mainly plays in lane, the jungle nerfs did the opposite of helping us being less influenced by the junglers. Ganks and camping is way more frequent, which means in turn that you either stomp a lane or get stomped if your jungler doesn't help you, and now that jungle has so much impact, we actually get autofilled in it even if we don't all have enough knowledge on how to play jungle, resulting on people being forced to play the most important/impactful role while not being able to play it effectively.

Warwick MainMar 27, 20195 votes

I am artificially climbing because of how hard they nerfed the jungle. I am able to abuse autofilled junglers far more and secure myself freelo simply by memorizing spawn times and starving out enemy jungle.

BlackAlreadyMar 27, 20195 votes

This spoke to my heart so much. I actually stopped playing ranked and jungle in general and I'm now learning top in normals now. Which sucks cause normals literally provide no satisfaction for me but I'm not trying to feed in ranked learning a new role.

PepiljoMar 27, 20195 votes

You forgot something even more problematic in espacially lower elo:

People dont know that there were changes.
I am Gold IV jungle main and if my adc/top gets outfarmed they just start doing my camps.
I play Jarvan pretty good on a level where I can predict the enemy jungler and even ping my mates he is probably going to gank soon, if I am not close there I tend to steal the enemy jungle camps and go back to my jungle. This starts to add up where the enemy has 30cs and I have 80cs and also I am 2 levels ahead. But I can't snowball off of this game (which is the current meta) if my fucking team starts doing my camps!

I know jungle is a hard role for someone, who doesnt know his champ and the perfect playstyle and/or jungle pathing. But imho the bigger problem is that even the main junglers can't fullfill their roles anymore. I recently lost a game where I was 7/1 had more cs and was a higher lvl then the enemy jungler, but my team thought because I am ahead they can start taking my red, blue and all the other camps. They should make that laners get only 30-50% of thr jungle camps gold so that there is still a reason why you should take the enemy jungle camps if your team is ahead, but stops taking their own jungle camps.

sorry for my english, it's not my native language and I just got up.

Botulinum toxinMar 27, 20194 votes

Yea. When I go jng, i am getting it, no matter what. Not even once have I gotten support. But I get autofilled jng sometimes when I queue as mid/adc xd Riot should know that jungle is a heart of this game and they should be impactful.

MakarakarnMar 27, 20193 votes

It's kinda sad lol. I've always loved jg so much as a role, but I can't play it to save my life. I don't think these kinda things are gonna help much xD

Sodeb LacudomiteMar 27, 20193 votes

A real problem that happened to me yesterday:

enemy mid laner had picked smite as a summoner spell. So I tell my team "well RIP I'm going to be out-leveled and so my smite will be useless against baron nashor".

Well, you know what? he out-smited me for baron. (not the enemy jungler... the enemy mid solo laner).

That's also a problem with unsealed spellbook (I've seen it in pro-play in a SKT game where they got stolen baron by a top Urgot).

Is that healthy?

Current jungler are strong somehow early game because of ganks. I used to think that mid-late they were like under-leveled, under-gold bots with smite to secure objectives. Well, apparently, they are not even that. Do they bring utility like support? You know what, no. Utility junglers are not great early. So we have aggressive junglers being useful early and then useless. (UNLESS they snowball on lanes / steal lanes CS).

SęraphMar 27, 20193 votes

It really does suck I agree. But, like other things Riot manages to fuck up, we must adapt.

Here are a few suggestions.

Gank and tax
Wards out the ass in your jg
Vertical jungling is CRUCIAL! (will explain more if needed)
Do not pick feast or famine junglers
Refer to #3

swaningtonMar 27, 20193 votes

I'm not an expert so I can't pin down "why", but jungle definitely has felt less fun. I'm a supp main and jungle used to be my secondary, but this season it has just felt terrible to play and I've had zero success so I've switched to mid as my secondary. (still keep that Vi in my back pocket just in case though)

ModKnightsKemplarMar 27, 20193 votes

It's worth noting that, as Meddler's recent post pointed out, NA is the only region that values jungle this low. They aren't just balancing for NA... they can't afford to assume that our region is correct about everything and neglect the rest of the playerbase.

I generally agree with you that there are issues with how it's balanced, but I think it's problematic to pretend the entire world is on the same page about this. We aren't at all.

Tuition FeeMar 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's worth noting that, as Meddler's recent post pointed out, NA is the only region that values jungle this low. They aren't just balancing for NA... they can't afford to assume that our region is correct about everything and neglect the rest of the playerbase.

I generally agree with you that there are issues with how it's balanced, but I think it's problematic to pretend the entire world is on the same page about this. We aren't at all.

Never actually knew this. Thanks for bringing it up! In that case, could Riot do more post-game polls for junglers?

ModKnightsKemplarMar 28, 20192 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/VyEXF18K-quick-gameplay-thoughts-march-20

Yeah, here's the link! For clarification, I am not a Rioter, so I can't hold their feet to their fire about the polls... but hopefully they'll see our convo. They have definitely noticed that jungle has dropped as a preference since preseason, and while it doesn't appear to be at the very top of their list, I imagine we'll see some changes soon.

The cinderhulk changes coming down the pipe don't seem to be aimed at this, but maybe we'll see something else soon. It's often about letting changes settle before they take any more big swings. The constant tweaking didn't go over so well last season.