A look at how Cinderhulk has affected scaling itemization.

UPfreely·Apr 26, 2015·4 votes·449 views

This is more or less just another way to look at how cinderhulk effects our game. Imagine for a second that all of the jungler items were itemized just like cinderhulk. here is my take on it.

Infinity Edge removed Rabadon's Deathcap removed

Magus Reworked Warrior Reworked

Warrior Enchantment 1400 Gold Wicked Hatchet + 200 Gold +30 attack damage +20% critical strike chance Unique: +50% critical strike damage

Magus Enchantment 1400 Gold Aether Wisp + Amplifying tome + 115 Gold +60 ability power Unique: +5% movement speed Unique: +30% ability power

These iterations may well be over/under budget but i feel like this would be a close representation of what they would look like. How would you feel as an AP/AD champion with your multipliers pushed onto jungler items? Other thoughts?

6 Comments

Lord DusteonApr 26, 20152 votes

Almost every AP would take smite (except low scalings ones that want more penetration and cdr than flat AP).

Every ADC and melee ADC would take smite, and probably be pissed that they NEED this item to function but it doesn't provide the endgame stats to feel good. Actually, pretty sure most AP's would feel the same way about Deathcap being changed to that.

spavinedApr 26, 20151 votes

This is a very nice change, it would require some champs to need heavy balancing (e.g: Nunu) as it would give champs that have been lacking in the past some power in lane. summoner spells would be less of "choice on play-style" and be more of a balancing tool. Overall i'm in favor of this.

Blue Collar BearApr 27, 20151 votes

I think it just goes to show that Cinderhulk needs to be reworked into an item anyone can take.

qetzelApr 27, 20151 votes

The difference here is that you are taking away vital items that entire classes are balanced around. Before cinderhulk, some tanks were viable. Sejuani and Amumu in the jungle, Sion and Maokai top. Count Hecarim if you want to but I see him as more of a fighter.

Maokai and Sion top were not directly affected by the addition of cinderhulk.

UPfreelyApr 27, 20151 votes

this is a fair statement but not really the subject i was looking to talk about. champions are balanced around existing items and this would definitely upset that balance. lets assume IE/Deathcap never exsisted, how do you feel now about these items?

Hard4HamstersApr 27, 20151 votes

That enchant for warrior actually doesn't benefit AD junglers as much as the current AD jungle item because they aren't building crit chance and attack speed. It only benefits ADC's/Marksmen.

The only real comparison you can make is Deathcap for AP scaling. And if you remove Deathcap for this new item, Mages would be in a tough spot because they would NEED Smite to be as effective as they were before. The difference is that there was not an item before Cinderhulk that gave % hp scaling.... oh wait. The old Spirit of the Ancient Golem that built out of Quill Coat also had %health scaling. 25% to be exact. The only difference was that it didn't benefit toplaners as heavily because the Quill Coat only affected jungle creeps. The same thing can be applied to this Cinderhulk in some way. It needs to still do damage to jungle monsters, but it can have reduced damage to champions. This would make Sunfire more appealing to Top laners than Cinderhulk even if it doesn't have % HP. The reason % HP scaling on a jungle item makes sense is that it allows the Tank Jungler to keep up with other lanes with their lower income as they play for the lategame. Tank junglers are unlike other junglers as they are not able to pressure lanes as effectively as other junglers are. But they make up for this by having a stronger late game than fighters. The problem was that many tank junglers were unable to get tanky enough to be effective in teamfights due to their lower income. Cinderhulk allows tank junglers to be a threat in later teamfights which is what a Tank should be.

I do think some attention needs to be given to Magus enchant, but I'm not sure if scaling AP is what needs to happen. Even if this is implemented, it would be unique and Deathcap would not be removed so laners would opt for Deathcap anyway. A lot of people think that it is an issue of Magus users needing to use abilities to clear at all, whereas fighters have AAs and Tanks now have Immolate. When using abilities on magus users, it costs mana and CDs so the obvious Jungle enchant should give mana sustain and CDR with some AP to make it worthwhile.

As I said. Warrior is fine right now; it gives all the stats that allow fighters to output earlygame pressure. Giving critchance and taking away CDR and Armor Pen would actually hurt them.