Is no one else thinking crit items are too strong or why is no one talking about them?

Penns·Aug 11, 2017·46 votes·2,790 views

-200 gold cost on IE, warlords buff and added synergy with , 100 damage buff to passive (for whatever reason, why does the ranged dps class need burst?), a cost reduction to both Rapid fire and Shiv... all these buffs were way too much imo.

Many adcs feel so unfair, you gave assassins more counterplay because they were solo killing adcs, but what do I do against the 2 item Tristana already critting me for 500+ with Shiv and outbursting me? https://puu.sh/x7IGw/4f00523a19.webm xd

Every adc builds crit now, Corki is even a god tier mid laner with it in higher elo, same for Lucian. The only adc that doesnt build crit is... https://i.gyazo.com/cce14f9d0fe691a83a02d1b12ac6d1f1.png that one lul

64 Comments

AhristocatsAug 11, 201718 votes

i would be glad if they just removed crit and find something else for adcs and melee hypercarries

why the fuck dota2 only has item 3031 and can still work? carries are balanced around on hit effects and MANA to cast spells, something that we forgot in our game

PennsAug 11, 201711 votes

Tbh idk why such an impactful stat is still rng, you dont even get 100% crit endgame unless youre Yasuo, why did Riot not change it to something consistent yet?

i cant move wtfAug 12, 20172 votes

% chance provides exactly what people think marksmen should be good at: high damage over time. This is not the same as burst. In order for crit damage to be consistent, many auto attacks need to be made in order to normalize the "RNG." And I quote RNG there because the algorithm LoL uses for crit chance is much more regular and dependable than pure RNG, but still accomplishes the same goal.

BobaFlautistAug 12, 20171 votes

It would be child's play to give them a direct ramping mechanic instead of this pseudo-rng bullshit that "More or less sorta usually on average basically a ramping mechanic except sometimes" that means on any given hit a ln adc's damage can vary from like 300 to like 1k

i cant move wtfAug 13, 20171 votes

That would completely gut the class. Let's say you leave assassins as they are now, which can burst an ADC in 1 spell rotation - that's about 1-2 seconds, or 1-2 auto attack animations. So how will an ADC ever fight an assassin with this ramp-up mechanic? Are they going to ramp up to full damage on the second auto attack? It doesn't work.

CatastropAug 12, 201710 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEreKq0u,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-11T21:35:05.545+0000)

why the fuck dota2 only has and can still work? carries are balanced around on hit effects and MANA to cast spells, something that we forgot in our game

Smite has a crap ton more crit items and it doesn't even get as ridiculous as this game too.

Pumping IronAug 12, 20175 votes

Not really, crit in Smite it is a very powerfull stat but Smite requires much more skill because u have to aim your aas.

DurzakaAug 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEreKq0u,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-11T21:35:05.545+0000) why the fuck dota2 only has and can still work? carries are balanced around on hit effects and MANA to cast spells, something that we forgot in our game

A pretty good reason that it works is you never reach 100% crit in Dota2. But on top of that, almost all of the very strong/threatening hard carries in that game are melee, not ranged. So they dont blow people up from absolute max ranged.

it might be surprising, but team fights last more than 10 seconds in Dota 2, and it is wonderful.

Bottom LanerAug 12, 201718 votes

42.9% is an odd name for an ADC

PennsAug 12, 201716 votes

:< Ezreal

xJLx MCHammerAug 12, 201711 votes

Riot is losing it

They giving ADC way toooo much flexibility. They have the best itemization and scaling in the game. Now, in order to reduce the game time, they buffed every item ADC's buy but mages, tanks, and assassins have gotten nerfed. They buffed ADC's because their scaling is as linear as it can be for this game. The damage is both guaranteed and scaled with on hit.

SkorchAug 12, 20174 votes

Didnt they add diversity so Crit doesnt run the meta, and if its bad there are no good ADCs?

Didnt the Lethality buffs help assassins?

Isnt a large part of the meta right now tanks, and as such Crit ADCs are even better? Meaning the tanks have to have good itemization?

PennsAug 12, 20171 votes

The difference is that Cinderhulk got nerfed and items like item 3800 probably will as well. But Riot is apparently fine with adcs.

SkorchAug 12, 20173 votes

I mean IMO ADCs are in a semi decent spot RN. I havent seen a lot of DD Dravens, Crit ADCs arent COMPLETELY out of control like they sometimes are, Lethality ADCs are viable.

I mean i dont know the meta RN but for the most part i havent noticed any insane annoying ADCs in bot lane lately.

PennsAug 12, 20173 votes

Well DD Dravens that build item 3812 item 3031 item 3087 item 3094 item 3006 and crit for over 1000 damage with 3 items.

SkorchAug 12, 20171 votes

Is that still a problem? I honestly dont know, i havent seen a draven in like 1 week.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 13, 20172 votes

if youthink crit adcs are not a problem i have bad news for you.

SkorchAug 13, 20171 votes

Well Tristana is pretty meta RN, but when i think of crit adcs, i remember back to the start of the year the Vayne/Twitch patch when they were literally 2 shotting entire teams.

Right now they are WAY better than back then.

ExecutionerAug 13, 20171 votes

Mostly because cait got nerfed, and draven gets banned almost every game. Put those two against trist, and its a living nightmare.

Another reason they took tristana is because of all the mobility every usually has in the game. She is a safe pick late game. What an adc wants is to be able to be safe when he gets late game.

I hardly feel that way when I play and reach late game. Anything touched me? Well fuck me I practically died. Oh a tank is on top of me, gimme a bit of time to kill this guy. Gonna be a while. I have yet to shred through tanks with ease in this game, unless I am extremely fed.

Vayne and twitch? I dont really see them two shot anyone unless someone has no armor items.

AirKingNeoAug 12, 20172 votes

Cinderhulk was overbuffed then slightly nerfed.

and tanks are still really strong.

Daddy AntsAug 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Didnt they add diversity so Crit doesnt run the meta, and if its bad there are no good ADCs?

Didnt the Lethality buffs help assassins?

Isnt a large part of the meta right now tanks, and as such Crit ADCs are even better? Meaning the tanks have to have good itemization?

Everyone cried when Jhin Varus and MF were the only viable ADC's because they abused lethality.

It was a unfun meta.

SkorchAug 12, 20171 votes

People also cried when Vayne, Twitch was the Meta cause the 2 shot entire teams.

But RN besides Draven who i havent seen, i cant say there is a certain few adcs that are clearly outshining others.

LoliKnightAug 12, 20171 votes

**EVERY ** Ezreal ADC??

GayFluffyUnicornAug 13, 20171 votes

I actually wanted to complain how you don't mention bruisers but then i realised bruisers are a joke for seasons now so yeah.

CitavistaAug 12, 20174 votes

she landed like 3 autos, ult, and bomb went off and you still almost instakilled her in a fraction of the time it took her to get you that low.

MizayaAug 12, 20173 votes

The 2nd highest winrate ADC is MF, who has a core of BC/Ghostblade/Duskblade. The 3rd highest is Kog, who relies more on on-hit than crit. Wit's End, Rageblade, Runaans, Bork being your typical build based on op.gg's item popularity numbers. Doesn't feel like pure crit is just superior to everything else for me, as I would argue Kog is the best late game ADC.

Additionally, for some extra context, from mid 2011-late 2012 IE was more gold efficient than it is now, providing 3800 of raw stats with a 3830 cost, while now you get 3250 of stats for a cost of 3400.

And lastly, I can't really conclude anything from the gif in your post, as it lacks a lot of information. Seems like you had rather low AP for being that far into the game, and were the same level as Trist somehow, is all I can tell really.

PennsAug 12, 20172 votes

MF goes at least 2 crit items late game, she doesnt go 5 pen items + boots anymore. And Kog is pretty broken in general, its the same thing with Elise being a god tier jungler in a tank jungler meta.

MizayaAug 12, 20171 votes

MF builds crit later into the game, though. And her winrate by game length is downward sloping. But it's still the 2nd highest overall.

commit an heroAug 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The 2nd highest winrate ADC is MF, who has a core of BC/Ghostblade/Duskblade. The 3rd highest is Kog, who relies more on on-hit than crit. Wit's End, Rageblade, Runaans, Bork being your typical build based on op.gg's item popularity numbers. Doesn't feel like pure crit is just superior to everything else for me, as I would argue Kog is the best late game ADC.

Additionally, for some extra context, from mid 2011-late 2012 IE was more gold efficient than it is now, providing 3800 of raw stats with a 3830 cost, while now you get 3250 of stats for a cost of 3400.

And lastly, I can't really conclude anything from the gif in your post, as it lacks a lot of information. Seems like you had rather low AP for being that far into the game, and were the same level as Trist somehow, is all I can tell really.

This is a bit misleading. Kog'Maw is just really good as he has a super safe laning phase and has decent poke with his W early as well. So basically he is good early and godlike late. MF is just a huge lane bully and has really good synergy with Duskblade/Lethality. Crit is still really good at the moment, it just happens that these two particular champions don't synergize well with Crit.

LoliKnightAug 12, 20171 votes

MF has a 3 damaging abilites , two of which can crit, and a bonus on hit damage passive, WHICH CAN ALSO CRIT. Not many people notice this, but test this out on Practice dummy and you'll see what I mean. And you mean to say she doesn't synergize with crit? Nah man , the synergy is there, but the thing is lethality into crit evens out her power curve to be more consistent rather than just mid-late game, so thats why lethality into crit, something like what Jhin used to build.

MizayaAug 12, 20171 votes

Which is important. Kog has always been considered as being less item-reliant. He gets bork first and instantly can start killing people fast. And from there on he doesn't have problems dealing DPS. MF on the other hand is more lane dominant and tries to win off of early leads. And Lethality is still amazing early game.

But on to my next point: certain ADCs have seen upward trends in winrate. This would include Jinx, Kog, Twitch, Vayne, Sivir. The changes to energized items, I believe, came a few patches ago. What we're seeing imo is just certain ADCs becoming better because they deal better with tanks. IE has been buffed for a while, but only now are we seeing late game carries being played more. Kog doesn't build much crit other than Runaans, typically, and Jinx does. Well, both of them have seen their winrates spike up in the last 3-4 patches. It's not a crit meta, necessarily, rather it's just most ADCs use crit. It's a teamfighting, scaling meta for the ADCs, crit or not.

SweedishGunnerAug 12, 20173 votes

Meanwhile at Riot games -

"Hey why don't we make magic damage AA's that can crit!?"

"Great idea Bob, Corki is perfect for this, there's no way point and click Magic damage with crits for over a 1000 damage could be broken"

Kappa.

DreadlocksAug 11, 20172 votes

I've known crit was strong since they made the ADC update.. Before you would get i.e / shiv / grev boots.. the rest would be damage/lifesteal.. You know.. before LW was changed to bonus pen:

item 3031 item 3087 item 3006 item 3035 item 3072 item 3102 (this was a very normal build in season 4, ofc these items have changed since.)

ExecutionerAug 12, 20171 votes

Try those items against tanks now. Holy fuck it would suck.

Oh sorry for the truth.

DreadlocksAug 13, 20172 votes

Do you not remember what old Last Whisper did? lol..

KyunseiAug 11, 20172 votes

I feel you dude. Crit are out of line, Items or Systemic must be looked at, but not before end of worlds and pre-season sadly. (Rune Reforged will take priority)

PrinceOfStormsAug 12, 20172 votes

Corki is busted not because crit is stupid, but because you can't itemize against him, as the anti-ADC items like Randuins barely help, seeing as how Corki does 80% magic damage on his AAs.

BeheadedAug 12, 20172 votes

old randuins used to mitigate any form of crit, be it karthus or ryze q, maybe it still does but im not sure

PrinceOfStormsAug 12, 20173 votes

Randuin's crit reduction does work on Corki, the problem is the armor is basically wasted stats. MR isn't as abundantly available as armor is, and the MR items are much better against burst damage than sustained (since mages typically do burst damage).

Corki just buys Sorcs + Void Staff and goes to town on you, especially because Void Staff lets you ignore 35% of all MR instead of just bonus MR.

BeheadedAug 13, 20171 votes

misinterpreted, mb

Sagan ForeverAug 13, 20171 votes

Adaptive hemp removes 20% of his aa damage(magic part). That with tabis and random remove a good chunk of his damage.

SalsonAug 12, 20172 votes

item 3031 is the main problem, it kills everyting and is mandatory in every game.

To be fair for Riot, changing Crit and with it the very concept of ADC is a Preseason level of work.

AirKingNeoAug 12, 20171 votes

Because ADC's have to be overpowered to offset tanks being overpowered.

All the meanwhile bruisers suck.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 13, 20171 votes

Always fun to play a bruiser and seeing tanks being tankier, bring more cc and deal the same dmg.

AirKingNeoAug 13, 20171 votes

Not even. Tanks deal way less damage. Problem is tanks are so drastically tanky that bruisers die in an instant.

The game used to require you to have a bruiser+adc+mage to get the damage you get with just an adc+mage.

Clockwork MouseAug 12, 20171 votes

ADCs in 2017, am I right?

GayFluffyUnicornAug 13, 20171 votes

The sad part is this would have been the chance for riot to finally open up league of legends. I was watching a lot of challenger games in the beginning and saw shit like azir/janna botlane. It was really refreshing and EVERY OTHER PLAYER has to swap his champ pool once in a while if he wants to compete with the meta be it tank players,assassin players or bruiser players. The only thing that can not NOT exist are marksmen, i don't get it. IF adc players think "adc in 2k17 lul" then go and grab a mage bot where is the problem? Nope instead marksmen got buffed into an obscene state ONCE AGAIN like EVERY FUCKIN SEASON.

SpoofghoulAug 12, 20171 votes

They should rework crit into on crit effects

make the bonus damage small and add different effects like crits ignore X% armor or do bonus dmg vs neutrals/structures or grant buffs like a movement buff or apply a debuff like grievous wounds etc etc

much easier to balance then those dumbass 2k crits oneshotting everyone

yea yea i know pink ward the incoming basic attacks to dodge them