any ivern nerfs coming soon?

McFatal·Mar 22, 2017·10 votes·2,322 views

huge shields cant die amazing cc builds full tank and supp utility items.

0 clear time and pretty mcuh facerolls everywhere.

14 Comments

NarvuntienMar 22, 20173 votes

I have been playing a lot of him... he certainly isn't faceroll...

But he has this strange habit of prancing around and suddenly you realise you are 4-1-10 and you don't remember getting fed.

I would expect nerfs (with his high win rate) but they might be struggling to work out what exactly to hit since he isn't at all a normal champion.

McFatalMar 22, 20176 votes

{quoted}

I have been playing a lot of him... he certainly isn't faceroll...

But he has this strange habit of prancing around and suddenly you realise you are 4-1-10 and you don't remember getting fed.

I would expect nerfs (with his high win rate) but they might be struggling to work out what exactly to hit since he isn't at all a normal champion.

i truly dislike the fact that a ranged champ gets a free red in lane just because she has ivern for a jungler.

it truly TRULY makes me want to leave the game.

laning is bullshit with ivern .

RiotRiot SotereMar 22, 20173 votes

No plans for this upcoming patch. We always review him in our planning because he is very much on the strong side. He doesn't have incredibly high pick or ban rates, which means he tends to be less on fire than some of our other potential projects.

McFatalMar 22, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEcc7UGA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-22T05:29:17.785+0000)

No plans for this upcoming patch. We always review him in our planning because he is very much on the strong side. He doesn't have incredibly high pick or ban rates, which means he tends to be less on fire than some of our other potential projects.

i get that but i think its because people dont want to pick him unless hes in the LCS.

for now the ones who do play him realize just how strong he is and are taking advantage of it while they can.

i think once graves is finally balanced ivern is going to be number 1.

AptestMar 22, 20171 votes

people don't want to pick him because he is not (a) an assassin or (b) a hard carry, which are what people want to play in the jungle. Ivern is a poster boy for "the good jungler is not the fun jungler, for me".

Sad TyrantMar 22, 20172 votes

of course he is less on fire, he is a tree, he avoids it like the plague

DessemMar 22, 20173 votes

Can I ask how pick/ban rates factor into balance changes? You acknowledge Ivern is "very much on the strong side", but I don't see how pickrate factors into that overly much. If someone picks Ivern 321 times in Master and retains a 59% winrate (this person exists), doesn't that indicate his balance is an issue regardless of pickrate?

137434Mar 22, 20171 votes

They didn't say they were going to completely leave him alone. He admitted that Ivern is on the strong side and they are always reviewing him. But pick/ban rate definitely is a factor in how quickly they respond with nerfs/buffs. If someone is being picked in 40% of all games with a 30% ban rate and yet still has a 60% winrate Riot are going to react to that champion quicker than one that is picked 1% of the time with 0.1% banrate and has a 60% winrate, as the former champion is affecting far more games.

DessemMar 22, 20172 votes

They didn't say they were going to completely leave him alone.

He didn't say it, but the implication is there: Ivern is always reviewed, but never acted upon. This review comes because he is on the strong side.

Thus. Ivern is strong -> Riot reviews him -> Riot decides not to nerf him -> Ivern remains strong -> Riot reviews him -> Riot decides not to nerf him -> Ivern remains strong etcetera.

I ask about it because it looks like Sotere is saying that they know he's strong, and they continuously review him, but pick/banrate is apparently a big factor in their decision to allow him to remain as strong as he is. This is why I'm curious in what way these rates factor into balance changes.

The Sword SaintMar 22, 20171 votes

It's more that it costs professional developers, testers, balancers, etc. time and effort to look at how to best tune a champion to make sure they move towards the heealthiest direction while hurting how fun they are to play and their thematics as little as possible. It's alot more then just knocking down some random numbers and calling it a day.

That time is better spent on champions who are picked and banned alot since they have an impact on more games. They'll get around to ivern when its worth the cost of putting the human resources onto him.

WarWorkMar 22, 20171 votes

Can we at least get some counter play to shields in general? I just find it weird as something that has no counters (mobility has CC and healing has Grievous wounds)

I've always thought you could shift item 3056 to fill that need, with an active with a long CD that disables or weakens shields

AMYS GRAVEMar 22, 20171 votes

Can't give him a love tap nerf? -10 damage on his q or -10 shielding?

TricolorStarMar 22, 20172 votes

Hi, Ivern main here. Ivern is strong, that is true. But he's strong in weird ways. Being able to easily clear the jungle in a meta where the jungle eats you back is very strong. Kindred and some off-junglers (like Taliyah and Sol) suffer because the jungle does too much damage. Not only can Ivern withstand the jungle (since it likes him), he can come out of his first and second clear with much more health than other junglers like Vi or Shyvana.

His strengths are this:

Easy for non-junglers to pick up
Lots of CC
Very good clear

His weaknesses are:

He's weird. Really, _really _weird. His mechanics on his W and Q are very, very strange (with W hurting more than helping a lot of the time). Teemo and Rengar can use his W bushes against him.
Susceptible to invades. If an Ivern isn't paying attention, the enemy jungler can easily clear his camps while he's off taking the enemy's. This ruins Ivern's clear and makes it hard to catch up.
No damage. Even if you're building full AP, Ivern does very low amounts of damage when compared to actual AP junglers like Zac.

Here are some tips when you're going against Ivern:

Yes, he does spend mana and health to set up camps. Predict his movement pattern and intercept him during the second half of his first clear. You can kill him easily.
Damage of any kind interrupts his Passive channeling, meaning Teemo, Cassiopeia, and Malzahar can make it so he can't Q in to steal a camp.
Daisy's AI is bad. Really, really bad. If you see her glitching out (which happens a lot), take advantage of it. Also, Daisy is manually controlled for the most part, meaning that Ivern has to direct her to you in order for her to hit you. Don't be afraid to wail on him with Daisy out, she's not like Tibbers and won't start attacking you immediately.
Kill him first. Ivern will be the supportive heart of a team, with defensive items like Redemption, Locket, etc. Treat him as a support (which he is) and prioritize him ahead of tanks and such.
Ivern and his team can't see inside his bushes, meaning they're safe to hide in.

TheSingularityMar 22, 20171 votes

Just for the dmg, u tried on hit ivern? It freakin wrecks shop. item 1419 item 3124 item 3091 item 3006 item 3022 and probs a item 3078 in combination with his W absolutely shred everyone. Managed to 1v1 a quiin who had over 20 kills with only the razor, guinsoo and mallet