We nerfed assassins for 1shotting people with no counterplay

fuffychan·Jul 26, 2017·89 votes·3,677 views

So we let 1shot you with true damage, while having ~~7000~~ 17000 health!

89 Comments

One Ashe OnJul 26, 201732 votes

Actually, i had a game earlier where the enemy Cho'Gath had 8540 normal health and when he popped Stoneplate next to 3 of us, BAM. 17k HP with thornmail and stoneplate. He was literally pressing Q, hit someone whoever it is, and walk to him and press R. Sorry but this isn't fun. Specially when you hit 17k HP with thormail, Vayne even with item 3153 item 3036 shits brick and might die faster than Chogath ... They need to remove the Stoneplate synergy.

Edit: His full build was this : item 1401 item 3193 item 3075 item 3083 item 3800 item 3742 item 2138 because who need boots !

EtheręalJul 26, 20175 votes

To be fair, vayne is not in a very good spot compared to the likes of draven twitch cait jhin right now, but even at her strongest I doubt she'd be able to do anything to this chogath if he always saves his flash and ult for her.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20177 votes

Which is annoying, since Vayne is one of two people theoretically capable of defeating Cho'gath at that point in the game. The other being Fiora. Literately nobody else has the damage to kill him before his ultimate comes off cool down enough times for him to kill everyone.

ChaosThiefJul 26, 20171 votes

Well, a properly built Rhaast can also handle cho'gath through % health damage and drain tanking.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20172 votes

You can't really drain-tank if you're instakilled, and I'm pretty sure Rhaast's only %hp damage is on his ultimate.

And while many people have %health damage (pretty sure nearly every tank does), very few have %health true damage. Cho'gath often has too much armor for regular %health physical or magic damage to do anything. Vayne and Fiora get it on autos (Fiora's passive, Vayne's second passive, and have the mobility to hopefully avoid Cho's damage.

I suppose you may have the possibility of a sufficiently fed Ahri (true damage on Q, CC, and one of the most mobile champs in the game), or some heavy damage dealer, if it was followed up by a Garen ult (%missing HP true damage). And, of course, any other infinitely-stacking champion can theoretically beat him (Nasus and Veigar with even greater burst, Sion with the ability to survive literately anything Cho'gath throws at him, and Kindred theoretically being able to kill Cho'gath from base). But, realistically, only those two have any real chance.

AzuregoreJul 26, 20173 votes

Rhaast has %Max Health phys damage on his Q as well as his ult.

junglerboy16Jul 27, 20171 votes

Fiora is probably one of the best champions for dealing with Cho'gath right now because she has enough % true damage to get through his HP, enough sustain and beef to keep out of his kill range until stupidly late in the game, and enough mobility to dance around him and capitalize on his immobility. The only problem comes when he gets a big enough hit box that vitals become tricky to proc consistently.

I haven't seen it yet, but hypothetically Kalista should also do very well into Cho as long as she can kite well and avoid his CC, because after long enough her spears will add up and be able to nuke him hard, and her standard attack speed + sustain heavy build would work pretty well into him. She might need a frozen mallet to counteract his RG and make sure she can't be totally one shot, but otherwise a normal build could work.

One Ashe OnJul 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Fiora is probably one of the best champions for dealing with Cho'gath right now because she has enough % true damage to get through his HP, enough sustain and beef to keep out of his kill range until stupidly late in the game, and enough mobility to dance around him and capitalize on his immobility. The only problem comes when he gets a big enough hit box that vitals become tricky to proc consistently.

I haven't seen it yet, but hypothetically Kalista should also do very well into Cho as long as she can kite well and avoid his CC, because after long enough her spears will add up and be able to nuke him hard, and her standard attack speed + sustain heavy build would work pretty well into him. She might need a frozen mallet to counteract his RG and make sure she can't be totally one shot, but otherwise a normal build could work.

Yea but... if cho use righteous glory and pop stoneplate, good luck kiting when you receive your whole health bar as true damage.

junglerboy16Jul 27, 20171 votes

Hence suggesting Frozen Mallet for Kalista

One Ashe OnJul 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Hence suggesting Frozen Mallet for Kalista

if you buy mallet you will be behind on your build and before that, Cho have enought time to get massively fed. So it might change nothing.

ChaosThiefJul 27, 20171 votes

The reason Rhaast can win is because he benefits from building bruiser. Build an armor pen item on top of that, and cho still has to take a good chunk out of rhaast's health before he can ult execute him with stoneplate.

Rhaast has constant knockups, two % hp attacks in his kit, one of which is incredibly spammable, the other which can essentially revert any damage he took if used at the correct time.

It's not a 100% win scenario, but rhaast has a good chance to win.

OyddAWqJ5rJul 27, 20171 votes

Good thing Cho deals % max health damage too and thorns reduces Rhaast's healing.

One Ashe OnJul 26, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=One Ashe On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEbHonFf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-26T02:57:19.493+0000)

Actually, i had a game earlier where the enemy Cho'Gath had 8540 normal health and when he popped Stoneplate next to 3 of us, BAM. 17k HP with thornmail and stoneplate. He was literally pressing Q, hit someone whoever it is, and walk to him and press R. Sorry but this isn't fun. Specially when you hit 17k HP with thormail, even with shits brick and might die faster than ... They need to remove the Stoneplate synergy.

Edit: His full build was this : because who need boots !

2700 damage ult was a real nightmare !

OyddAWqJ5rJul 27, 20171 votes

Well atleast he landed Q to do it. Most of the time it's just Flash + Ult

One Ashe OnJul 27, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEbHonFf,comment-id=00030003,timestamp=2017-07-27T09:40:05.259+0000)

Well atleast he landed Q to do it. Most of the time it's just Flash + Ult

Yea but his E slow also help and righteous glory also ..

HateDaddyJul 26, 201726 votes

The hoops these idiots jump through on these boards to defend certain bullshit. There's nothing reasonable about a full tank doing 2k+ true damage under ANY circumstance. That's legitimately one shooting an ADC for most of the game.

TS MediaJul 26, 20174 votes

{quoted}

The hoops these idiots jump through on these boards to defend certain bullshit. There's nothing reasonable about a full tank doing 2k+ true damage under ANY circumstance. That's legitimately one shooting an ADC for the entirety of the game.

FTFY

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20173 votes

Nah. There's the period when the ADC is dead. And that very brief period in the game where Cho'gath is pathetic.

TS MediaJul 26, 20172 votes

I'm sorry, which period is Cho'gath pathetic? Oh you mean before his first back? I guess.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20174 votes

From level 1 to level 2.

RalanrJul 26, 20173 votes

I'm not seeing many people really defend Cho'gath honestly. Can't really agree with them either.

RexxieeJul 26, 201714 votes

8000? More like 15k+ with stoneplate.

Its fine though since hes melee and a tank, and those are weak xddddd

TohobJul 26, 20178 votes

you answered your own complaint in your title. "with no counterplay"

how to counter Chogath in 1 easy step: walk away from Chogath

and because someone's going to respond "how do you walk away when you're knocked up" here's a bonus tip

how to counter Chogath 's knockup in 1 easy step: walk away from the circular indicator when Chogath activates his knockup.

DJMason88Jul 26, 201733 votes

That's the worst argument for something as toxic as Cho'Gath's state right now. You cannot defend his ultimate + gargoyle synergy.

Champion SkinJul 26, 20173 votes

That's the worst argument for something as toxic as Cho'Gath's state right now. You cannot defend his ultimate + gargoyle synergy.

Actually, that was around before he was OP....

what really pushed him over the edge was his E.... with it now scaling with R stacks and slowing (the slow is a HUGE deal) this makes Cho'gaths kit much more reliable which is the biggest issue or at least it gives him more follow up if he doesn't have enough burst to kill the target (before if the target survived his burst then his old E probably wouldn't really be good enough most of the time)

BigBellBruteJul 26, 201714 votes

{quoted}

you answered your own complaint in your title. "with no counterplay"

how to counter in 1 easy step: walk away from

and because someone's going to respond "how do you walk away when you're knocked up" here's a bonus tip

how to counter 's knockup in 1 easy step: walk away from the circular indicator when activates his knockup.

Stay away from champ X is the worst argument ever for saying there is counter play this side of ban him.

TehNACHOJul 26, 20177 votes

To be fair it works for Illaoi.

The problem with Cho'Gath is that he also comes with ranged tools to catch people AND keep them in his grasp.

MrryZJul 26, 20176 votes

Thats because illaoi is a juggernaut with no cc so it's somewhat viable. Also pretty sure the counter to illaoi is to stay away from her tentacles not her

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20173 votes

Not just that. It's stay away from her tentacles after she ults. Most of the rest of the time, they're damage, but they're not in enough of a concentration to make her literately unkillable.

TequilaZombieJul 26, 20174 votes

This is how Riot balanced Annie Darius Garen Illaoi Mordekaiser Nasus Skarner Swain Tryndamere Udyr Yorick

Well, basically all high-damage, low-range, low/medium mobility champions.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20173 votes

Tryndamere, low mobility...?

TequilaZombieJul 26, 20173 votes

Tryn is on the medium side of the low/medium mobility side. He's still laughably easy to kite on situations other than a 1v1

Blackstone01Jul 26, 20172 votes

Even in a 1v1 ADCs with self peel like Ashe, Tristana, Vayne, etc can kite him quite easily.

Neo Metalsonicv2Jul 26, 20173 votes

righteous glory + stoneplate W silence flash R.

RIP ADC.

Usually cho'gath isn't the only initiator, he can often follow up on his jungler.

WoonStruckJul 26, 20172 votes

item 3742

And a lot of Cho'gath players are opting for summoner 6 for the lower CD and more consistent ability to get him in range to Q, E, or R.

YambrinZJul 26, 20177 votes

In other news, if you let Twitch or KogMaw get to 6 items they will one shot your entire team. More on this @ 10pm EST

Sad TyrantJul 26, 20178 votes

{quoted}

In other news, if you let or get to 6 items they will one shot your entire team. More on this @ 10pm EST

they don't kill you in one shot. they kill you in many shots.

RogueWillJul 26, 20178 votes

yeah 2 shots is many, it feels completely different than 1 shot.

RozzetaJul 26, 20176 votes

I think this is the first time in which this kind of comments are not an exaggeration.

I like Cho Gath, but I hate damage scaling from defensive stats, and Riot keeps adding that scaling everywhere these days.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20174 votes

I don't mind some damage that scales from defensive stats, such as what Rammus has. But in Cho'gath's case, it's just gotten too far.

waiting for WoWJul 26, 20174 votes

Was expecting duskblade Jhin

SkorchJul 26, 20174 votes

https://media.tenor.com/images/df754b91cd52d7ccfc4e1fcf1094451e/tenor.gif

Literally the second stoneplate came out i said it was a problem. "He's not popular, who caaaaaaaaaaaaaaares?"

PePsiLemoNNJul 26, 20171 votes

Is Cho OP ? YES

Does this comparation make any sense? No.

You kinda forgot that assassins have mobility and that Cho needs item 3193 , if he manages to R you (assuming you play ADC cause that's the class assassins oneshoted) without summoner 4 the IT IS your fault.

DaNinadJul 26, 201710 votes

item 3800 How do you fucking outrun this

RalanrJul 26, 20176 votes

With another righteous glory!

Chembaron YamadaJul 26, 20171 votes

Just works towards enemies. Righteous Glory sucks for running away. XD

RalanrJul 26, 20174 votes

They'll never expect a game of chicken!

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20171 votes

summoner 6 , item 3742 , and item 3152 ...

And let's remember that you're fucked as soon as you're CC'd, because then he'll just land his SIlence/knockup on you instantly. And then you're dead.

PePsiLemoNNJul 26, 20171 votes

Why do you act like your team doesn't have ONE stun/root to stop him? Also the OP compared him to assassins who have mobility IN THEIR KIT they don't need items or summoner spells

p.s : I feel like ppl think I'm defending Cho or something x)

DuskDaUmbreonJul 26, 20174 votes

Because they don't. Because they're busy evading his Q so they don't get one-shot.

And he still has 2k+ damage. On one ability. Non-situational one-shot. You don't even get the chance to dodge it, because it's a point and click. Even old Rengar wasn't that bad.