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Can we bring the Artillery champions back into the Meta to counter Azir?

taleofsonata··9 votes·1,292 views

Xerath Ziggs Jayce Seriously where are these champions? I haven't seen them anywhere. Their Skillshots are soo hard to Land ESPECIALLY Ziggs. Ziggs has a such a Low movement speeds it hurts the player whenever they try him.

The problem with the Artillery champions is because of Lane interaction. Riot has been having a Lane interaction phobia. Any champion that sits under their tower and shove and shove while doing damage to the enemie laner, is something that Riot dislike. But we need that type of gameplay. Its not something you can remove from a game after you already made many champions that has that in their kit.

I mean if I can just Shove the lane and Get Azir out of the lane aswell as being very safe, I would always pick an artillery champion vs him. If you guys think thats unfair then explain me this.

Caitlyn can spam 5 trap under your tower. Zed WQ combo can outrange Ziggs bouncing bombs which is his Q.

Ps: These champions only Appear because of scripters. How many of you have faced Scripting Xerath, Jayce, Ziggs, Lux?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPgE2zc3QME Old Days With Artillery champion vs DPS Mage Like Kayle

21 Comments

Profirix4 votes

You aren't supposed to actually duel your laning opponent as Ziggs. You are supposed to safely farm from a distance with your Q and E. Only if you can optimize last hitting minions and dealing damage to an opponent should you try to deal damage to your laning opponent. The idea is that you push the wave really hard. Even if you are against someone like Azir, they will likely shove you hard and then try to roam. As Ziggs, you can push equally as hard, keeping Azir either in lane or forcing him to lose a tower. You have to play the game of attrition with Ziggs, at least until teamfight phase. At low elos, the mid laner will likely try to roam even if you are hard shoving. That gives your team a free tower (or 2). At higher elos, Ziggs will keep the mid laner stuck in lane and prevent them from roaming. You will also likely gather jungler attention and pull pressure from your other lanes.

The idea is to be as annoying as possible without actually putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

taleofsonata2 votes

I never said you are suppose to Duel with Artillery champion, Didn't you read anything I wrote? I mean if I can just Shove the lane and Get Azir out of the lane aswell as being very safe, I would always pick an artillery champion vs him. This doesn't mean Duel, it literally means push Azir out of Lane by poking him while clearing the minions Wave. In which the old Viktor was able to do with his E that is why for a long Time Azir wasn't played in LCS because of Viktor constantly E his Face. Then Riot decided to nerf Viktor E and as soon as it got nerfed Azir CAME back once again as a priority pick in the LCS.

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Blame Adam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAFEJxbT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-06-27T19:20:53.826+0000)

You aren't supposed to actually duel your laning opponent as Ziggs. You are supposed to safely farm from a distance with your Q and E. Only if you can optimize last hitting minions and dealing damage to an opponent should you try to deal damage to your laning opponent. The idea is that you push the wave really hard. Even if you are against someone like Azir, they will likely shove you hard and then try to roam. As Ziggs, you can push equally as hard, keeping Azir either in lane or forcing him to lose a tower. You have to play the game of attrition with Ziggs, at least until teamfight phase. At low elos, the mid laner will likely try to roam even if you are hard shoving. That gives your team a free tower (or 2). At higher elos, Ziggs will keep the mid laner stuck in lane and prevent them from roaming. You will also likely gather jungler attention and pull pressure from your other lanes.

The idea is to be as annoying as possible without actually putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

As much as I agree with the general idea. Riot really seems like they are feverishly suppressing any champ that can wave clear from a safe distance, cause they don't want to go back to the Stall tactics that the Artillery mages created. Also, Even if you could counter push Azir from a safe distance, You would go oom way faster than Azir.

venomous frost2 votes

Azir IS the artillery champion, with dps and engage/disengage. no reason to pick anybody else but azir if u want that role

warpenguin5553 votes

well yeah. all other artillery champions are weak as fuck

taleofsonata1 votes

He is not an Artillery champion, He is a DPS MAge Like Kayle, "Teemo", Swain, Malzahar, Vladimir.

TheOvermind2 votes

I don't see how he is not an artillery Mage when he can wq auto thunderlords someone from across the lane in the same way a xerath would q. He is not intended to be an artillery mage ? Probably . AZir was indeed designed as a dps mage. Does he have artillery Mage range and poke ? Definitely . But riot nerfs his ultimate instead which is what makes him unique instead of his range which is what makes him super safe and oppressive.

taleofsonata1 votes

To be Truth he is a Marksman with a higher base damage. He has Marksman range of Damage, His AA Range of 900 with his QW. The fact that you are saying that he is an artillery Mage is another hint you have not met alot of Artillery Mage. Lux,Xerath, Ziggs all outrange him By ALOT. up to 1200-1300 Range. While Azir is 900. That is about 4 Teemo away. He sits between Artillery-Dps Mage, He Has Zone Control potential, Siege Potential which was removed by Riot because they remove his Damage to turret and soldier dissapear quicker under tower. He has what a Melee champion hates about being Kited around. If Xerath can be made more Useful by making his Spell Hit easier and they could remove the stupid Telegraph charging thing from his Q and the cast time and not dependant on comboing with his EW to make his Q 100% hit. We would see less Azir.

Ishmar2 votes

I play Jayce more than any other champion. There are a few Jayce mains still out there.

TheOvermind1 votes

I still see some Jayce mains here and there. They all struggle to push them trundles and maokais out of Lane and then die to a gank when they have pushed the lane. Also teams don't know how to use jayce mid game strength. They don't group to siege towers with the Jayce. Which is pretty freelo if you ask me.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

Ziggs has one guy in LCS who plays him (and usually loses). Other than that, haven't seen them in a while.

HateDaddy1 votes

They're all good now, play them yourself. Just because pros aren't playing them doesn't mean they're bad.

I think Ziggs and Xerarth in particular are actually really good, I think Jayce is probably a tad bit under tuned but frankly he needs to be.

Shrek Luigi1 votes

Artillery champions are not weak as a whole. They seldom deviate from a ~50% winrate, and if they do it more-often-than-not has to do with collateral nerfing of an item in their preffered build or something. Even artillery champions who float below the %50 WR mark can potentially do really well in a game when picked appropriately.

What gets artillery champion players on the fast track to being baddies is stuff like not working enough HP into your build to survive a gank/burst dmg in fights when you get gapclosed on, not taking barrier/cleanse when you clearly should have, not grabbing Void Staff when basically everyone on the other team is decked in MR/not taking flat mpen when they arent.....stuff like that. A lot of perceived weaknesses in Artillery Champs have a lot more to do with artillery-champion players treating champion.gg and mobafire like the Holy Bible and not actually grabbing what would benefit them the most on match-by-match basis. Not knowing when to avoid picking a squishy, immobile champion--in situations where your team has weak peels or the other team has very strong/safe fight initiation--has a lot to do with it as well. I mostly play Xerath and Varus mid and have zero problems with them provided I'm aware of what my team, as well as the other team, can or cannot do and base my positioning and who I should be focusing on that.

siilentdeath1 votes

xerath is all about hitting your opponent with a style of anticipating movement. i use my Q to hit people at max range. so they have the least % to dodge. once u get that stun that chains alot. i go E > W > Q. also a item 3116 helps alot. if u cannot hit skill shots do not play xerath at all.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Azir & Caitlyn are the only two artillery champions I've seen played since preseason; the rest have been nerfed repeatedly without worthwhile compensation.

taleofsonata1 votes

Azir is a DPS champion, Caitlyn is Siege champion. Caitlyn Q doesn't do as much as a Jayce Q or Varus Q. An artillery champion should have a damage output of around 600-1000 for Poke Damage. Aswell as a Range of 1200+. A Poke champion is suppose to Force someone to Recall by hitting them with 1 Abilities or more. If they do not recall they are punished with Death.

A Siege champion is someone who has 1 objective, Take the Tower as quick as possible from a Safe Range.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

They both have incredible range at their disposal; azir doesn't have reduced damage on auto-attacks like kalista does, caitlyn's auto-attacks can nearly outrange azir if she buys the rapid fire cannon. That's reaching the edge of the screen, artillery mages barely have that range, and their power to reach beyond that has high cooldowns; the only champions with cooldowns on their autos is graves & jihn. You also haven't fought against a caitlyn who saved her traps, she can easily shove most champions out from under their tower without even being in range; that's similar to artillery.

10Tickler1 votes

KogMaw Velkoz Heimerdinger Brand Ezreal Urgot Varus

There's your Artillery, right there

taleofsonata1 votes

KogMaw Why bother using R when you W is pretty much your new gameplay. You R is an execute now. Velkoz He is almost an Artillery but not quite there yet, for me an Artillery champion is a champion that has either alot of abilities that can go over 1200 Range or having A Very strong Poke like a Max Range Nidalee Spear. Heimerdinger Zone control Mage aswell as being my Main. Brand Anti Tank Burst Mage. Ezreal Poke ADC, His Q doesn't do alot of Damage and is a Kiter champion. Artillery are champions that hit super hard from a very long range. Urgot DPS Poke Bruiser Marksman, He can be considered as an artillery but he doesn't do alot of damage early and require way too much itemization. BTW a very good Duelist too. Artillery do not Duel they Poke you and force you to Recall to Base. Varus An Artillery ADC, His Long Range Pokes Hurts alot and can force someone to go back to base.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

forgot Lux

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