Orianna feels kinda boring since she's been my main for a while now and she hasn't been changed at all. I want her to be buffed actually because she has pretty unreliable damage in lane and is only good in teamfights. Please get back to me on this.
RiotMeddler32 votesNo plans for a rework, no, we think Orianna's got a good kit.
Considering some slight buffs in 6.17 though, she's been underperforming for a while. Small W haste % increase and a small R CD reduction the current changes being tested.
Jbels3 votesNo plans for a rework, no, we think Orianna's got a good kit.
Considering some slight buffs in 6.17 though, she's been underperforming for a while. Small W haste % increase and a small R CD reduction the current changes being tested.
There has to be more thought that goes into buffs than "Champion x is underperforming". There are a lot of champions that are underperforming. Poppy is hurting very badly from her pile of nerfs, Tahm Kench is underperforming as well, but no buffs are slated for them. What other factors determine buffs?
RiotMeddler16 votesThings like:
SaltyKracka2 votesOn that note, any insights on Nasus and Garen? They've been doing pretty poorly for a while now, and Nasus especially is only looking worse and worse.
BeardedLuchador1 votesI feel like other than the Darius rework, the Bruiser rework was pretty "meh" in general. It's still a very rare game in which a bot lane Morde--in any ELO--does well. His kit is all over the place, and they couldn't be bothered to fix his Pizza feet.
200220121 votesIdk why you'd play Morde bot, it's already known for a long time that he was a failure. Melee champs without CC or movement abilities will just always be trash.
BoundaryBreaker1 votesSay that to Malicious Metal, I dare you XD.
Teslium7 votesAatrox is exactly what you mentioned up there. He has been in a bad spot for a really long time at all ratings. Even high elo Aatrox mains have trouble performing well with him.
newbin5 votesAatrox is exactly what you mentioned up there. He has been in a bad spot for a really long time at all ratings. Even high elo Aatrox mains have trouble performing well with him.
Aatrox has been talked about. Because of his kit he is really hard to balance. The kit is really powerful so even slight buffs have a larger impact then others.
HaloDragonX2 votesKit isn't hard to balance it. It's quite easy, even I could do it.
200220123 votesNo, you couldn't. If you shorten CD on his passive, he promotes passive gameplay on both sides. Damage increase on Q or E and he just builds full tank with good base damage. CDR on Q and E and he becomes an assassin. Higher ratios on Q and E and he becomes a scaling jungler, similar to Yi, loses identity. If you increase his damage on W or increase the healing on it, he just builds full tank and is unkillable. If you reduce it to 2 hits, he just becomes broken as an AA champion in general. If you decrease his W cost for damage, he becomes an early game monster. If you decrease CD on ult, promotes passive play because you can't ever 1v1 him. If you increase the damage or scaling, suddenly we have a full tank Aatrox or a gimmicky hybrid Aatrox. You can't really increase the range, but if you increase the duration, it only helps him if he's fed enough. In short, there is no real place in the game for Aatrox. The class of auto attackers are meant for split pushing and 1v1ing, yet his kit is built around sustaining damage while dealing some in a teamfight. He can't be balanced because his actual role and intended role are different, and not fixable without a rework. He's so similar to Tryndamere, but Trynda's immortality comes at a lower cost, cooldown, and allows him to kill.
HaloDragonX1 votesReally? You want me to tell you? Fine.
Passive: Revive removed. Attack speed changed from 30-50% to 40%.
Q: cannot be interrupted (think Tristana jump, but he's knockup immune)
W: every third strike gains 30/35/40/45/50% armor pen to that attack. W bloodprice damage to tripled HP cost from quadruple HP cost. (Damage is about the same, but he now damages tanks like a normal person.) W bloodthirst healing normal raised, healing under half health lowered to 30/35/40/45/50% from doubled.
E: slows more, covers entire AoE instead the edge (QoL for waveclear)
R: cast time reduced, ranged slightly increased
Base stats: 30 base HP, base armor and MR raised by 3.
Call it a mini rework if you want to, but it's really simple. Remove the useless revive, give him real base stats. Make his W useful above half HP, and not HP under half. Give him a way to kill tanks, like a normal bruiser.
RedHat213 votesYou call it a mini rework, but you are removing his identity with his revival, just like doing it with Zac. I haven't done the math, but isn't 50% armor pen too much? What Aatrox needs is definitly a way to fight tanks in mid to late game cuz he loses everytime anyway, so i support you on that regard. Also, his E is perfect, it doesn't have to be touched.
HaloDragonX1 votesRevival is barely part of his theme, thematically and gameplay. Gameplay he's either a teamfigher (which he sucks at) or a splitpusher (thus keep his ult).
50% armor pen isn't to much, considering Darius gets a passive 50% armor pen, and this armor pen is just on his 3rd attack.
Teslium1 votesHis revive and heal are his theme. That's his identity. Removing those 2 is like having a completely new champion.
HaloDragonX1 votesYou clearly don't play Aatrox then. Unlike you, I have. That's why I have 92k mastery points on him.
Teslium1 votesYeah, because mastery points is what make you good with a champion, right? Not that I have been playing him ever since he got released and I have been maining him since season 4 up until recently. Ask anyone with a bit of expirience, and they will tell you that his healing and passive are his identity.
Teslium1 votesHis passive is what classifies him as a diver. How isn't that his identity if it is what makes him a diver.
Quepha2 votesReally? You want me to tell you? Fine.
Passive: Revive removed. Attack speed changed from 30-50% to 40%.
Q: cannot be interrupted (think Tristana jump, but he's knockup immune)
W: every third strike gains 30/35/40/45/50% armor pen to that attack. W bloodprice damage to tripled HP cost from quadruple HP cost. (Damage is about the same, but he now damages tanks like a normal person.) W bloodthirst healing normal raised, healing under half health lowered to 30/35/40/45/50% from doubled.
E: slows more, covers entire AoE instead the edge (QoL for waveclear)
R: cast time reduced, ranged slightly increased
Base stats: 30 base HP, base armor and MR raised by 3.
Call it a mini rework if you want to, but it's really simple. Remove the useless revive, give him real base stats. Make his W useful above half HP, and not HP under half. Give him a way to kill tanks, like a normal bruiser.
Removing his "high-end" when his passive up means he now either wins every fight or loses every fight instead of winning fights when his passive is up and losing them when it's down.
Giving him more free combat stats means you want him to win every fight.
It's surprising to me that you managed to pull it off, but you actually came up with several ways to make Aatrox even worse for the game than he currently is. Bad job.
HaloDragonX1 votesNo no, there is no high end of his passive, it scales with level. Meaning buff her early game, small nerf to late.
Not really, the armor pen is allowed to damage tanks. To lower damage on squishier targets, his damage is cut by 25% on his W. 25 PERCENT IS A LOT.
How does this make him worse? He'll have a working gapcloser, relevant CC, REAL BASE STATS, the ability to damage tanks, better teamfight with his R cast time down.
Quepha2 votesHow does this make him worse? He'll have a working gapcloser, relevant CC, REAL BASE STATS, the ability to damage tanks, better teamfight with his R cast time down.
Better in every situation is not actually good for the game. We're talking about game health and when your favorite champion wins in every scenario it's only good for you and not the other 9 players in the game.
Twin TaiIs1 votesAatrox CDs are ridiculous for what they offer. First of all, passive is only good when its full. So after you die (you will cuz you have bad base stats cuz sustain revive champion) you lose your dueling potential, and probably already used Q and E, so you are already dead. Q is also terrible as a spell. The knockup is almost impossible to hit, its extremely slow, the dash is small, and its so easy to interupt. E is fine, though magic damage only helps early. W heal is fine. W damage is fine. R is also a major issue. Damage it does is a joke. Range is amazing. AS is great. Problem is, you dont wanna use it until after you apply passive, since after you die, u lose bloodwell and so become useless. Wanna see a buff? Q is now 700 range (from 600) and is now way faster when target is close by (like soraka's Q) Knockup increases area depending on distance traveled. After dying, bloodwell will only empty after 3 seconds of being out of combat. Ulti is not lost if passive procs. W stacks remain after bloodwell is procced. They can buff him. He's not in a state that any buff would make him best in class. If he was, we would have seen him once in the 3 years he was released and nerfed.
I am Razgriz1 votesHigher ratios on Q and E and he becomes a scaling jungler, similar to Yi, loses identity.
lol no. Hate to break it to you but that would make him nothing like Yi. Spell ratios aren't what make Yi or Aatrox. They're both auto attackers for sure, but spell ratios have little to do with their identity. As they have nothing to do with being steroid-based auto attackers. Like, if they made Aatrox get a massive move speed buff somewhere and made his W do true damage. SURE. As it stands you're just an idiot. (I'm sorry, I'm tired of not telling people they're idiots to preserve their feelings just to stave off downvotes to preserve my points).
If you reduce it to 2 hits, he just becomes broken as an AA champion in general.
Because Devourer Aatrox was SO broken, amirite?
200220121 votes[{quoted}](name=I am Razgriz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAETXfc2,comment-id=00000001000100010000000000000002,timestamp=2016-08-07T13:54:24.339+0000)
lol no. Hate to break it to you but that would make him nothing like Yi. Spell ratios aren't what make Yi or Aatrox. They're both auto attackers for sure, but spell ratios have little to do with their identity. As they have nothing to do with being steroid-based auto attackers. Like, if they made Aatrox get a massive move speed buff somewhere and made his W do true damage. SURE. As it stands you're just an idiot. (I'm sorry, I'm tired of not telling people they're idiots to preserve their feelings just to stave off downvotes to preserve my points).
Because Devourer Aatrox was SO broken, amirite?
He becomes Yi in the sense that he will just permafarm in the jungle with his infinite sustain until he becomes both hard to kill and easy to kill champions with. It's not like he would be played to with good ratings, there are better alternatives which aren't played anyways.
Also, he was never even played jungle because there were champions that utilized it better. You're just drawing wrong examples, if he had a 2 hit W ALONE he would be broken (he could also build Guinsoo, just go full tank and attack speed and have damage W turned on at all time)
Idk why you're so mad and closed minded.
I am Razgriz1 votesNever was mad and nothing about my post indicates anything close-minded. The fact you said Jungle Aatrox was never played clearly indicates to me you have no idea what you're talking about though.
200220121 votesIdk, classifying someone as an idiot while the person is an entire tier higher seems pretty mad to me.
Seeing as how you saw no probems with his W becoming a 2 hit ability just speaks how much credible your opinion is.
I am Razgriz1 voteshow credible your opinion is
Ah, so League rank determines your intelligence in society. Gotcha.
I'm really happy you had to look up my rank to justify yourself and find some way to feel superior, because it was the only way you could.
Sad though, I'm only this rank because my computer is on the fritz and crashes when I play League, so I don't play Ranked because that would be a silly thing to do.
200220121 votes[{quoted}](name=I am Razgriz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAETXfc2,comment-id=000000010001000100000000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-24T06:16:00.264+0000)
Ah, so League rank determines your intelligence in society. Gotcha.
I'm really happy you had to look up my rank to justify yourself and find some way to feel superior, because it was the only way you could.
Sad though, I'm only this rank because my computer is on the fritz and crashes when I play League, so I don't play Ranked because that would be a silly thing to do.
I'm neither sure why you're comparing game knowledge to real world intelligence, nor do I think you have any chance of beating me in that category.
The truth is both of us are trash, but it's pretty obvious which trash is a tier higher and whose opinion is generally more logical.
I am Razgriz1 votesI didn't, you did.
nor do I think you have any chance of beating me in that category.
Haughty and useless.
Also, done with you :/
200220121 votesYes, I am the one that claimed rank in ranked has no effect on the credibility of an opinion regarding LoL, but that intelligence does.
I'd assume you're done with me like you're done with your dream of becoming Plat this, or any other season :)
Teslium1 votesTo be honest he needs quality of life changes more than anything. They need to make his passive not to reset his W stacks when taking fatal damage, his W wind up needs to be faster, and his W needs to function properly with guinsoo's
Quepha9 votesAatrox is exactly what you mentioned up there. He has been in a bad spot for a really long time at all ratings. Even high elo Aatrox mains have trouble performing well with him.
Aatrox fails on the "How healthy for the game" spectrum because he's typical diver cancer who only wins by outstatting people because of his boring kit.
manbearswine1 votesAatrox fails on the "How healty for the game" spectrum because he's typical diver cancer who only wins by outstatting people because of his boring kit.
Binary and cancerous are two different things.
Being a typical diver makes a champion both quick to overshadow and to be overshadowed by others, which reduces the payoff for dealing with said champion, but that doesn't make his kit obnoxious or cancerous, he's not rengar.
Quepha1 votesBinary and cancerous are two different things.
Being a typical diver makes a champion both quick to overshadow and to be overshadowed by others, which reduces the payoff for dealing with said champion, but that doesn't make his kit obnoxious or cancerous, he's not rengar.
That's exactly what "cancerous" is because the only way to beat diver cancer is to be better diver cancer. Xin Zhao started a massive problem in melee champion design that bloated into an entire class of champions that all do the same thing and Aatrox is one of the last examples of it.
manbearswine1 votesThat's exactly what "cancerous" is because the only way to beat diver cancer is to be better diver cancer.
Um no? Peel works, disengage works.
Xin Zhao started a massive problem in melee champion design that bloated into an entire class of champions that all do the same thing and Aatrox is one of the last examples of it.
Actually that problem is originally attributed to ashe, and is mostly in the past atm.
Having a simple kit which is similar to other champions does not make the kit obnoxious, certain patterns of play fall under that category and just being a diver isn't one of them, it's generally things like immense mobility, healing, instaburst, invulnerability,lifesteal(at high doses becomes incredibly obnoxious)/etc.
Quepha1 votesUm no? Peel works, disengage works.
The champions are designed to fight through peel with gapclosers and cc.
Actually that problem is originally attributed to ashe, and is mostly in the past atm.
In this metaphor Ashe would be the carcinogen. A melee champion was designed to be able to get through to Ashe, the best self-peeling carry in the game (at the time). But to be able to play in the same game as that melee champion (because they both went top lane), the only option was to make the new melee champion do the exact same things, and at that point he just loses the lane unless his numbers are also better. Then the next melee champion comes out and it's designed the same way, and the next, and the next, and now you have a dozen champions and only 4 are playable at any given time (because the enemy ran out of bans for the 3 most OP)
manbearswine1 votesThe champions are designed to fight through peel with gapclosers and cc.
Break his jump and he is done, dash out of it and same thing, if his target is solo he might still get to it if he hits the slow, otherwise he will be slowed and kited.
Aatrox isn't irelia(who really is poorly designed, with her dash being nearly a blink, chained into a pointclick stun, while reducing all cc with her passive)
In this metaphor Ashe would be the carcinogen. A melee champion was designed to be able to get through to Ashe, the best self-peeling carry in the game (at the time). But to be able to play in the same game as that melee champion (because they both went top lane), the only option was to make the new melee champion do the exact same things, and at that point he just loses the lane unless his numbers are also better. Then the next melee champion comes out and it's designed the same way, and the next, and the next, and now you have a dozen champions and only 4 are playable at any given time (because the enemy ran out of bans for the 3 most OP)
I agree that top lane is still pretty cancerous and extremely unforgiving to those that go there, but the variety of kits that go there now is much more than "who is the best melee", in fact we see plenty of ranged champions as well, besides, nobody said aatrox has to work top lane, he used to work in the jungle as wellmostly.
Huudi1 votesHopping onto this for a pet peeve: how does riven fit into these considerations? As a high gold player I absolutely hate playing versus this champion and I feel very few champions make me feel this bad to play against once they get any sort of lead. It feels like a remnant of old season two and three days before the game started to tone down ludicrous outliers who would start, say, red pot and try to kill you immediately and go up 6-0 or something
200220122 votesYou literally play Pantheon, Jayce or Darius vs Riven and just totally shit on her. Riven isn't even viable nowadays.
psi0nic1 votesWow Riven starting not being the total piece of shit she was earlier this season? Let's babyrage. But anyways, I don't feel she needs nerfs at all, she is still Riven, useless when behind, carry and force to reckon with when ahead. You are saying she is oppressive when she gets a lead. Which is true. But you're fighting a Riven or staying in her lane 1v1. Group up, focus her down, cc her. The way she enters fights is awkward, she's all melee, but she builds full AD save 1-2 defensive items past her core. I would recommend, playing her. Just for a few games or so. Find her weaknesses and abuse them heavily.
Zyphex1 votesThings like:
- Performance at a range of skill levels. Performance doesn't just mean win rate, but instead includes things like an assessment of power when played in an appropriate team comp, against appropriate enemies, by experience on the champion etc.
- How healthy the champion is for the game. That assessment involves whether they have a positive or negative effect on things like other champion diversity, whether their kit has appropriate counterplay, whether they lead to passive or active games etc.
- How long a champion's been underperforming. All else being equal champions that have been weak for a longer time are more of a priority.
So, can we buff azir now? Seriously...super unfair to us azir mains to put this time into the champ then you gut him to a 40% winrate and then you think he is balanced because he is "late game hypercarry" but yet only has barely a 50% winrate in 40+ minute games and only a 44% winrate with people who have 125+ games on him........ Seriously riot
Teslium1 votesLol, I don't think he needs to be buffed for quite some time. He has been a strong pick for pretty much ever since he got released.
Druce13 votesWhat are your thoughts about making her R 100/100/100 mana instead of 100/125/150, keeping her in line with a lot of other champions?
RiotMeddler20 votesSeems like a reasonable change, I'll check with the team, see if they're already considered it or not.
Snow Guardian1 votesHave you thought about making her ult still go off if she dies while casting it? Maybe not if she just pressed it, but it it's like 50% though the animation or something
Speedy2 voteshonestly, often when I die on Ori, I am glad the ult didn't go through cause it was a panic ult :P
Urek Mazino10 votesJust revert the -6AD nerf you made 2 seasons ago
IT GAME THRONE2 votesthis, oris mana is actually super good with even just tear.. 40% cdr spamming like crazy I had no issue lol
SlashStriker1 votesSeems like a reasonable change, I'll check with the team, see if they're already considered it or not.
how about removing the mana cost on high cooldown ultimates?
