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spliting the summoners spells into 2 tiers

Knight SoIaire ··3 votes·880 views

well we cant deny it that flash is dominating the game atm and it does not matter what champ you play its always flash+ suplementary spell for your role in the game

but what if we would make one summoner spell slot for a big summoner spell and the second for a suplementory summoners spell?

lets say that big summonner spells will be -flash -ingite -heal -teleport -exshauts they will have big cooldowns and strong effects while smaller summoner spells would be -clarity -ghost -barrier -cleanse -clairvoyance -SMITE (alsmoust forgot this one) low cooldown but also weak effect possible passive effects

the problem with flash is that it does not compete with other summoner spells (nobody will pick leona over darius when it comes to damage, just like nobody will take ghost over flahs when it comes to actual mobility, flahs ofers 100% dodge rate ) support wants exshaust cause it fits his role but he can also take heal or even ignite, assasin wants ignite cause it fits his role but he can also take heal, barrier or exshaust. toplane wants ignite or teleport or heal or barrier while flash is mandatory cause it does more than anything else for any champion (even kassadin who has flash every 3 seconds uses summoner flash )

maybe just making the players chose beetwen flash and something else would stop its dominance and assign it to a niche of champions who use it (kiteable low range burst champs like fiddle and darius), this would lead to riot being actualy able to ballance the summoner spells (flash op, clarity useless, clairvoyance useless,ghost useless,revive is a joke, and depending on riots ballance heal fights over a spot in the game with barrier )

#as you will comment please dont take the list i made into consideration cause i just made it on a whim, the true problem is that flash has 99% pick rate and riot does not consider it stronger than other summoner spells (when kassadin takes flash then there is something wrong with it )

12 Comments

Adrian Umbra7 votes

Saying flash is strictly better than ghost is a lie; there are and will always be champions who make better use of ghost than flash. And Riot absolutely considers flash stronger than other summoners, there's just little they can really do about it without making the spell useless.

Your idea actually causes flash dominance to be even MORE oppressive, as it then forces out other usable summoner spells like teleport and heal simply because it's good enough to beat them out. Why take exhaust when you can have flash, heal, or ignite?

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Your idea actually causes flash dominance to be even MORE oppressive, as it then forces out other usable summoner spells like teleport and heal simply because it's good enough to beat them out

flash is selfish why would support tyake fkash over heal or exshaust oh and i would forget, if you flash over a wall you can actualy say that you walked around the wall in less that 0,1 second, ghost is not that fast, the only champ that would want ghost is hecarim cause he gets both ms and ad from it besides that we have youmus ghostblade

in my opinion it would make ppl consider if they actualy need need it, why would you pick flash over exshaust vs zed? because exshaust removes zed while flash creates a gap that he can close in a second with w

ploki1221 votes

Saying flash is strictly better than ghost is a lie; there are and will always be champions who make better use of ghost than flash. And Riot absolutely considers flash stronger than other summoners, there's just little they can really do about it without making the spell useless.

Actually, I would've been a big advocate of this not to long ago. Unfortunately, ghost is not what it used to be... S3, with the summoner spell mastery, you had 35% for 14 seconds. It has been cut down to 28% over 10 seconds. 28% is nice, but it's still not anything gamechanging unless you can already nearly catch the opponent (so no wall to hop over, and no big MS discrepancy). Fortunately, they ended up adding a buff to distortion which allows you to reach 40% MS with it... it only costs a minimum of 1275g (and at that point you have no combat stat, only MS). It also occupies your enchantment slot, meaning that you can't use homeguard (which is really liked later in the game) or alacrity (which is what most people who run ghost would like). In turn, going for distortion leaves you with a badenchantment unless you took 2 mobility spells (flash/ghost/tp).

Otherwise, with every releases, the presence of hard CC seems to be getting heavier and heavier. And once you're caught up to, you're not getting out with ghost... They don't care about your MS if you're 60%+ slowed. They don't care either when you're stunned, snared, knocked up/back or suppressed. Lastly, it's more about creating early plays; late game, your ghost is insane, but before you buy boots, it's nearly laughable since it's a % buff. I used to run ghost on Poppy, but that leaves me much weaker in lane than just running exhaust instead, or running another combat summoner like ignite.

Right now, the few champions I could see ghost being used instead of flash are Olaf and Master Yi, because they can ignore CC. Anyone else, I'd go flash.

Sire Hippington1 votes

outside off a few champs(mostly off-tanks) flash is strictly better than ghost for a simple reason: it is reaktive with a clear usecase. U rarly have to plan when to use flash or ask ur self if falshing would be the right thing to do, as it's usually pretty clear that it will save ur as or grant a kill the moment u use it.

Ghost has no imidiate effeckt, so u can't just use it the moment u'r about to die to escape like flash, or to instdntly get in range for the killingblow. It's never save to say if u actually get away after useing ghost, u never can tell 100% that u gonna get the kill if u use ghost, and even more important, u never can savely tell if u wouldn't have succeded without using ghost and putting it ion a huge cd, as ghosts effeckt isn't instant, but resolves other the cause of 10 sec, and u can't realy say whats going to happen in those 10 sec. predicting what happens the moment u use flash(or barrier or ignite) on the otherhand is pretty easy. another problem is that ghost can be countered by slows pretty hard, flash only get's countered by hard cc, wich has a much lower uptime, and u ususlly use flash to avoid said cc. With ghost, enemys have time to react and can throw cc on u all day long befor u reach ur target or get out of range. Another problem with ghost is the ms-softcap(wich causes some more problems fro the game imo), as u usually would want ghost on champs that already have alot ms in theri kit and also itemize for some ms, so it's effeckt often isn't that high due to the softcap

if ghost would atleast cleans ms-debuffs and reduce sloweffecktslike boots of speed, or grant 100% ms boost going down to normal ghostvalue over 1-2sec, so u gain some imidate use out of it, it would become a way more attracktive choice that can compete with flash on champs that prefer sustained mobillity over a single gapcloser. Or if the cd would be shorter, so u wouldn't be punished that hard if u use ghost without getting something out of it

Zarkkast3 votes

They should just make Flash an innate spell like Recall, leaving the cooldown untouched.

Tulare2 votes

I recently had a similar conversation with a friend of mine. My conclusions were as follows: If I had to take a stab at balancing summoner spells, I'd say that Barrier, Cleanse, Ghost, Exhaust and possibly Teleport are all at the correct power level but should have their cooldowns reduced. If that happened, Heal and Smite are probably right just the way they are. Ignite is probably close to the right power level, possibly needing a small nerf. Clarity and Clairvoyance need a buff. Flash and Revive probably should not exist.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

but there are champs who wont work as good without flash thats why i dont want to remove it

when a player picks his summoner spells he takes the ones that he finds the most usefull for his situation (we dont talk bronze here cause they take what is written in build on mobafire)
but flash fits everything and with proper use outshines everything, thats why i would like to make them chose beetwen flash and more specialized tools (instead of dodging heal, instead of flashing to peel you can exshaust, instead of flashing for the kill ignite) we already have a lot of champions who have almoust build in flashes, and they still take enother flash and suplementing spell

if i play vi i would take flash cause she integrates it with her skills but if i play tristana i would take heal or exshaust cause i jump and self peel already and i can fill the slot with something that i will use better

flash is a spell for everything when it comes to practical use, thats why flash just does not compete with other spells, i would like to force that competition by adding a special condition saying that if you will pick flash you cant pick other good tools

also the spells that you called underpowered could be just remade into smaller and weaker versions of themselves or remade into passive effects (instead of clarity we could get mana regen bonus) this would make them more of a supplementory spells

Sire Hippington2 votes

this wouldn't solve the problems that well, as it wouldn't takle the main issue whitch is flash beeing mandatory on ~95% of the champs.

Flash needs to become a base-skill like recalling, otherwise it will always take one of the summner slots.

besides the falsh peoblem, i actually like the idea of 2 different summoner slots, eben though i don't think it's neccesarry if the falsh problem would be takled first, as with a few tweaks the summoner-varity would probably get massivly increased once flash doesn't take a slot away.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

this wouldn't solve the problems that well, as it wouldn't takle the main issue whitch is flash beeing mandatory on ~95% of the champs.

would you use flash if enemy wouldnt use it? lets say that enemy picks ignite and exshaust, even if you flash he will exshaust you and close the gap fast flash is not mandatory in my opinion, but if you dont have flash how will you counter the enemy flash right now flash is still powerfull, but we face a breakthrough where other spells get also powerfull and cover specific niches if you see a diving assasin you need exshaust to counter him, if your carry flashes assasin will flash too

everybody has flash so you cant realy account is as a summoner spell but a universal passive i as far as summoners spell go flash is picked cause its universal tool, making player pick beetwen this universal tool or a specialized tool might cause the breakthrough well and thats what i would count on, ofc the smaller summoners would need a rework to make them more like additional passives or short cooldown actives

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

well at least in my head if you pick only 1 summoner spell, then the flash is not so great, but if you combine it with something its a good suplementation of a kit lets say you have ignite while enemy has flash, you will win trades cause you have the damage and he has to be carefull not to waste the flash and die from ignite

Darth Kitti1 votes

And then I come to gank you after you have used your gap closer, and without flash your SoL.

The reason you take flash is because it can be used in more situations than any other spell. I like where your head is at, trying to fix an overly dominate summoner spell, but the fact is that it is better to take flash in 99% of cases, and that isn't gonna change unless they remove it.

Yes it makes for fairly boring choices when it comes to summoner spells, but flash actually adds quite a bit of depth and counterplay into the game, it isn't a bad thing that everyone takes flash, quite the opposite in fact.

Pika3101 votes

I don't see this idea working. Any spells that you have to sacrifice Flash to take would simply cease almost all use entirely. Flash is far too useful and has too many diverse utilities to give up. Of course Riot realizes it's the strongest summoner spell in the game, that's why it's eaten multiple nerfs through LoL history. Like Adrian said, for Flash to stop seeing play would require it to be completely nerfed into useless oblivion. I can't see this proposed idea as anything other than nerfs for every spell that isn't Flash, but gets paired with it regardless.

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