Community; All Mordekaiser needs to be viable in Solo lanes is a self cast W...

Malicious Metal·Sep 2, 2015·45 votes·15,907 views

Riot; HERE YOU GO, NOW LEAVE US ALONE WHILE WE PREPARE 5.17 FOR E$PORTS

.....

When we asked for Mordekaiser to self cast his W we meant that he gets the AoE damage field and NOT the measly heal. It won't do sh*t for him now that you increased his health costs... It's a straight up nerf for Solo lane Mordekaiser and a buff for Duo lane Mordekaiser, the complete opposite he needs right now... This would be the only change he needs to be viable solo but you completely missed the mark on this point Riot...

(http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/09/92-pbe-update.html)

[(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/brutallegend/images/8/84/Brutal_Facepalm.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120324173357)]

65 Comments

RiotCertainlyTSep 3, 201526 votes

The intent is for this to be a sizeable nerf to duo lane Mordekaiser (the damage zones can no longer overlap for double damage). This is almost certainly a buff to solo lane/jungle Morde, but not enough to get him fully to viability. It's more likely than not that he'll receive further changes in 5.19.

ShockforceSep 3, 20154 votes

Huh, this might make Jungle Mord a thing.

If I am reading this right W proc's fully on jungle.

Fix one thing break another I guess.

Edit: Tried it out on pbe first level of W heals 210 (an entire hp potion instantly) on camps with >2 creatures and is up every camp.

Dar RaksadaSep 3, 20157 votes

Jungle morde sounds like he'd have rather crappy ganks though.

ErytroxylinSep 3, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8yXq8PN,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2015-09-03T13:48:42.330+0000)

Jungle morde sounds like he'd have rather crappy ganks though.

Those 325 move speed with no cc or mobility ganks are op.

Burnt Iron KingSep 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Those 325 move speed with no cc or mobility ganks are op.

item 3706 item 3116

VhalthoriaSep 3, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shroom of Dooom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8yXq8PN,comment-id=000c0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-03T14:06:40.649+0000)

Yeah, have fun ganking at 15 minutes or so into the game.

ShockforceSep 3, 20153 votes

You don't gank.

You counter-jungle at full health. Because you take negative damage from camps not named gromp.

Alternately, you gank lanes that have cc for you. Or, powerfarm because you do not need potions even for the first clear.

HäßlichSep 4, 20151 votes

item 3708 item 3116 item 3115 item 3001 item 3157 item 1326 Maybe? It's probably not ideal, but an interesting start if you want to go the AP route.

For AD, probably something more like this... item 3709 item 3078 item 3742 item 3065 item 3748 item 1305

Just a thought.

VirotoxicSep 5, 20151 votes

why one or the other? with hybrid ratios on Q it's not like you have to commit and E is better for the shield gain and item 3116 proc. he will basically be like Evelynn now, building whatever the hell he wants.

Count ZubatSep 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, have fun ganking at 15 minutes or so into the game.

You ask your supp to play champ with at least stun or snare. A lot of top laners have good CC too. Some mids also have hard CC. Morde ganks would rely on allies a lot, Mordekaiser's role would be to bring enough damage so he can ensure the kill when his ally CC's target. You also have ms buff when casting W on ally, which means flanking your enemy would make both you and your ally run faster towards the enemy. He could also be quite good counterganker. I think there are a lot of possibilities for Morde jungle + you have better control over dragon. Add all of that with awesome sustain and very good clear and you get quite good jungler. Maybe not 1st tier jungler, but still one who brings a lot for your team.

ErytroxylinSep 3, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8yXq8PN,comment-id=000c000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-09-03T15:14:46.917+0000)

You ask your supp to play champ with at least stun or snare. A lot of top laners have good CC too. Some mids also have hard CC. Morde ganks would rely on allies a lot, Mordekaiser's role would be to bring enough damage so he can ensure the kill when his ally CC's target. You also have ms buff when casting W on ally, which means flanking your enemy would make both you and your ally run faster towards the enemy. He could also be quite good counterganker. I think there are a lot of possibilities for Morde jungle + you have better control over dragon. Add all of that with awesome sustain and very good clear and you get quite good jungler. Maybe not 1st tier jungler, but still one who brings a lot for your team.

I'm not saying don't try it. I'm saying that forcing it is going to take more effort for less reward with larger constraints than other jungles. With the way league of mobility is, if the Jungle doesn't bring their own cc or mobility to ensure they can deliver reliable damage, chances are drastically reduced for ending up with a kill. His w speed burst, while helpful, just doesn't cut it for this purpose. That doesn't mean it was a failed gank. Maybe you got their summoner spell or forced them out of lane. It's just not as good as dirt napping them too. You can try to counter gank, but your lack of mobility is going to limit your ability to be where you need to be.

I guess if jungle Morde wins a match cause of his influence, it will feel pretty good cause he will know he outplayed the enemy hard.

Count ZubatSep 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying don't try it. I'm saying that forcing it is going to take more effort for less reward with larger constraints than other jungles. With the way league of mobility is, if the Jungle doesn't bring their own cc or mobility to ensure they can deliver reliable damage, chances are drastically reduced for ending up with a kill. His w speed burst, while helpful, just doesn't cut it for this purpose. That doesn't mean it was a failed gank. Maybe you got their summoner spell or forced them out of lane. It's just not as good as dirt napping them too. You can try to counter gank, but your lack of mobility is going to limit your ability to be where you need to be.

I guess if jungle Morde wins a match cause of his influence, it will feel pretty good cause he will know he outplayed the enemy hard.

Shyvana MasterYi Kayle

Some of junglers who bring little to no CC. I know, they are "farm junglers", but they can still make some good ganks. Having CC makes life easier for jungler, but having none and relying on ally's CC doesn't make potential jungler sh*t tier. Morde's probably not going to be top tier jungler, but I'm going to try it out anyways, just to have fun. I even already created build for him, I hope it will work as I intend, and if it will, who knows, maybe Mord jungle will become my SoloQ pick. But for now, I'm gonna wait for 5.17.

ErytroxylinSep 3, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8yXq8PN,comment-id=000c00000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-03T16:05:53.905+0000)

Some of junglers who bring little to no CC. I know, they are "farm junglers", but they can still make some good ganks. Having CC makes life easier for jungler, but having none and relying on ally's CC doesn't make potential jungler sh*t tier. Morde's probably not going to be top tier jungler, but I'm going to try it out anyways, just to have fun. I even already created build for him, I hope it will work as I intend, and if it will, who knows, maybe Mord jungle will become my SoloQ pick. But for now, I'm gonna wait for 5.17.

Shyv has a move speed buff more reliable than Mordekaiser's as well as a displacement/gap closer on her ult. Yi has a move speed boost that causes him to ignore slows and a gap closer/untargetability on his q. Kayle has a move speed buff and a slow. Those may be examples of junglers with less cc than some others, but they still have way more in terms of mobility and cc than Morde does.

Not to discourage you. I plan to fool around with it too for some laughs. I'm just trying to set realistic expectations for myself XD.

Sire HippingtonSep 3, 20151 votes

he can W on an ally for good ms, and if you have laners with cc, it can get ugly. He's also very potent on lane-/counterganks, ~~he even gets full lane xp while waiting in a brush...~~

VhalthoriaSep 3, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8yXq8PN,comment-id=000c0000000000000001,timestamp=2015-09-03T14:36:56.630+0000)

he can W on an allie for good ms, and if you have laners with cc, it can get ugly. He's also very potent on counterganks

We are talking about Solo Morde.

ShockforceSep 3, 20152 votes

You are not solo if you are ganking?

Sire HippingtonSep 3, 20151 votes

Nope, we are talking about jungle-morde.

VhalthoriaSep 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8yXq8PN,comment-id=000c000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2015-09-03T15:23:51.598+0000)

Nope, we are talking about jungle-morde.

True. My bad.

ErytroxylinSep 3, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8yXq8PN,comment-id=000c0000000000000001,timestamp=2015-09-03T14:36:56.630+0000)

he even gets full lane xp while waiting in a brush...

No he doesnt. He only gains full xp if he last hits things.

VhalthoriaSep 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No he doesnt. He only gains full xp if he last hits minions.

Corrected it for you.

ErytroxylinSep 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Corrected it for you.

Can't believe I missed that before! Could swore it was for everything. Nice catch.

Stars ShaperSep 3, 20152 votes

How about shifting the damage from his 3rd Q to a combo that involves his other skills to be used?

Like third or fourth skill to be used gets empowered damage/effect?

VariousnumberSep 3, 20152 votes

Why not make the Health Costs on his Abilities Sap from the Passive Shield, making for a Higher Risk but a better reward, You Lower your Defenses Slightly but deal damage to compensate for it, rather than Mordes thinking 'Oh I have this shield thing that makes me invincible because I get it back every time I use an ability.' Make it Higher Risk, Higher Reward, Rather than just Mindlessly Spamming because his Shield is constantly Regenerating from every ability. Make people think about using that E that they're not sure will hit rather than them using it and just going 'I missed... Oh well, the Shield will tank for me.'

Sorry for the Rant. Needed to get that off my chest. Welp, Back to wondering how many people don't realise just how much Damage Sion's W can do to a Tank who doesn't take MR.

Silents429Sep 3, 20153 votes

His risk is higher losing HP, because once his passive dies he is in more danger.

If it was just his shield going away he would just bring it back up quickly.

Malicious MetalSep 3, 201512 votes

{quoted}

The intent is for this to be a sizeable nerf to duo lane Mordekaiser (the damage zones can no longer overlap for double damage). This is almost certainly a buff to solo lane/jungle Morde, but not enough to get him fully to viability. It's more likely than not that he'll receive further changes in 5.19.

Sheesh, I know I may sound really damn offensive with my threads but It's just that I'd love to resolve this matter with Morde as soon as possible. He's my all time favorite champion and he'll only need some little tweaks to become one of your best works so far if I may say so.

Giving him his entire W will not only boost his viability but also open him up for all the different lanes. Heck, who wouldn't love to be able to play their main in ALL positions? He could be a great pick to go up against carry toplaners like riven, Irelia, Jax and the like, having strong duelling, an awesome late game and with his W great wave clear.

He could go mid to counter Assassins like Zed, Talon and Yasuo, being near Dragon makes it even easier to snatch a juicy clone. His build being so diverse also allows him to go a bit more offensive.

Heck, he could even Jungle due to his W sustain, amazing clear and dragon control!

His Bot lane role would still be the best in organized play since he gets everything he needs from his support and he won't lose out on XP due to his passive. With good team coordination he works wonders, but hey, we all mostly play SoloQ and even there he struggles a bit as of now.

I just want to show you how much potential the new Mordekaiser has with a minimum of changes! Just consider giving him a test drive with an unlocked W in 5.19. YOu can always revert them, what's the harm?^^

KingWanahakalugiSep 3, 20159 votes

Malicious Metal,

Enough. We get that you were unhappy about the Morde changes. You create a new thread whining or complaining every day and it's getting real old. Morde was my very first main, and I love the champ. I don't play him nearly as much as I used to, but I know him. Have you even given it thought as to why CertainlyT chose to introduce Morde into the bot lane? They want to create new carries, because designing new, unique marksman for the role every time is difficult. You can only have so many variations of marksman's abilities before you start overlapping and become redundant. I'm sure CertainlyT wasn't working on this alone. He did this as part of a conference with other Rioters. Yes, he did push hard for Morde to play bot, but it had a purpose. (and CertainlyT please correct me if I'm wrong) In my opinion, CertainlyT was the only one who could take the heat for this kind of change. He has taken a lot of shots for some of his creations, and they knew he could endure the rain of fire that would come his way for this. Malicious, I get it though. You're mad that they messed with your main, and that they revamped him in a way that you didn't enjoy. You want Solokaiser back. They are working on it. You can stop with the threads complaining every day.

Lay off, KingWanahakalugi

Malicious MetalSep 3, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Malicious Metal,

Enough. We get that you were unhappy about the Morde changes. You create a new thread whining or complaining every day and it's getting real old. Morde was my very first main, and I love the champ. I don't play him nearly as much as I used to, but I know him. Have you even given it thought as to why CertainlyT chose to introduce Morde into the bot lane? They want to create new carries, because designing new, unique marksman for the role every time is difficult. You can only have so many variations of marksman's abilities before you start overlapping and become redundant. I'm sure CertainlyT wasn't working on this alone. He did this as part of a conference with other Rioters. Yes, he did push hard for Morde to play bot, but it had a purpose. (and CertainlyT please correct me if I'm wrong) In my opinion, CertainlyT was the only one who could take the heat for this kind of change. He has taken a lot of shots for some of his creations, and they knew he could endure the rain of fire that would come his way for this. Malicious, I get it though. You're mad that they messed with your main, and that they revamped him in a way that you didn't enjoy. You want Solokaiser back. They are working on it. You can stop with the threads complaining every day.

Lay off, KingWanahakalugi

Get Gangplank over here, need some oranges for it to be K.

Seriously though, I get that I'm taking this WAY too personal and kicking off a thread each day won't solve anything. Everything that HAD to be said has been already pointed out. It's up to Riot and our dear CertainlyT to slow but steady push Morde in the right direction. I'm certain in a month's time we'll all be happy and look back at this with a grin.

Like Tenacious D put it; "You can't kill the Metal!"

Photos of GhostsSep 3, 20152 votes

NO. Not enough until it's fixed. Personally never played Morde, but he currently has THE LOWEST WINRATE OF ALL CHAMPIONS IN EVERY OTHER ROLE THAN DUO CARRY. I don't want that to happen to my picks, I only pick champs in positions that Riot wouldn't appreciate, and I won't tolerate such a ridiculous bullying of their part.

MortekaiserSep 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Malicious Metal,

Enough. We get that you were unhappy about the Morde changes. You create a new thread whining or complaining every day and it's getting real old. Morde was my very first main, and I love the champ. I don't play him nearly as much as I used to, but I know him. Have you even given it thought as to why CertainlyT chose to introduce Morde into the bot lane? They want to create new carries, because designing new, unique marksman for the role every time is difficult. You can only have so many variations of marksman's abilities before you start overlapping and become redundant. I'm sure CertainlyT wasn't working on this alone. He did this as part of a conference with other Rioters. Yes, he did push hard for Morde to play bot, but it had a purpose. (and CertainlyT please correct me if I'm wrong) In my opinion, CertainlyT was the only one who could take the heat for this kind of change. He has taken a lot of shots for some of his creations, and they knew he could endure the rain of fire that would come his way for this. Malicious, I get it though. You're mad that they messed with your main, and that they revamped him in a way that you didn't enjoy. You want Solokaiser back. They are working on it. You can stop with the threads complaining every day.

Lay off, KingWanahakalugi

i think its ok to be unhappy about a change that never needed to take place in the first place i think its ok to be unhappy about a change that made morde more polarizing and binary to play as and against i think its ok to be unhappy about a change that was never necessary anyway for a champion that had a perfectly fine winrate (50-51%)

you should lay off

Commando YiSep 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The intent is for this to be a sizeable nerf to duo lane Mordekaiser (the damage zones can no longer overlap for double damage). This is almost certainly a buff to solo lane/jungle Morde, but not enough to get him fully to viability. It's more likely than not that he'll receive further changes in 5.19.

you moved so quickly to destroy morde's identity and now want to take things slowly to fix it =_= ?

i mean i'm glad you're trying to fix it but it should be glaringly obvious that a massive buff to base mobility offset by a nerf to the mobility he gets on his w is necessary to improve his solo lane viability - don't worry, morde was and is nowhere near in danger of becoming a top tier mid laner or top laner

SettDownShutUpSep 3, 20151 votes

Throws confetti

Rew711Sep 3, 20151 votes

I must say that I don't view this a nerf at all... when I get some health or something, this just refunds me with a little plus and if I am get a ally or pet with this W to come close, I can deal so much damage. The best thing is that now his mid is finally balanced and his top and jungle are twice as good, but that only means one thing... his bot with only sky rocket... Luckily, no one really wanted him there anyway. But it does give way to ideas of other bot champions like Azir, Aatrox, and even Ahri.

Teridax68Sep 3, 20152 votes

Would you consider removing the experience passive on Harvester of Sorrow? It's an effect that only makes an impact in duo lanes, and so looks like the most direct thing to remove without impacting on his solo lane performance, and it also doesn't really feel like the most appreciable kind of power, even if getting a level lead in lane is in itself really strong. Farther down, it doesn't really feel thematically appropriate either, as opposed to his metal-mancing and epic foe enslavement.

MiraweaveSep 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The intent is for this to be a sizeable nerf to duo lane Mordekaiser (the damage zones can no longer overlap for double damage). This is almost certainly a buff to solo lane/jungle Morde, but not enough to get him fully to viability. It's more likely than not that he'll receive further changes in 5.19.

If you want to nerf duo lane morde in a way that actually makes him less aggravating to play against, drop the increaed EXP from his W. That's one of the things that makes him the most overpowered right now.

Big LincolnSep 4, 20152 votes

since you're nerfing his sustain, could you maybe let him activate the damage while he's by himself? Using the ability and then just seeing an empty blue circle is just.. so unsatisfying. Where's the power? The swarm of metal that shows he means business?

Better yet, why don't you make it so that he can activate his W while alone/out of range of his ally, but the ally he casts it on has to come to him in order for the second circle to activate? That way Mordekaiser can feel more satisfying while by himself, and his capability of working with a teammate is unharmed. I think the duration should be brought back up to 6 seconds, to compensate for the massive damage boost currently on the PBE. This is also, sort of an indirect nerf for solo-Kaiser, or what he used to be; no longer can he safely farm his wave by casting it on a minion when he's behind; he'll have to stay at the minimum range, which means he's still susceptible to getting finished off. It also means he can't fire-and-forget when he's ahead; if he want to push, he'll have to stay near it.

Do you think his Q offers too much power in terms of raw damage or is it acceptable for the immense telegraphed intent? Should his damage be a little more spread to the rest of his kit? Would you consider altering his E to have the heal instead of his W, being a Siphon and all that? (I think it should only heal if it kills the units, and possibly a very small amount considering his potential to waveclear minions en mass. Maybe increase the heal when he kills a monster/large monster/champion for jungling power, but make it a heal-over-time so he doesn't suddenly burst-heal if he happens to kill someone pre-6)

Why did his W become what was originally a one-target spell (he could use it on himself OR an ally, not both), to one he could use for himself and an ally, to one he needed an ally to use? I think it was much more interesting being a DoT that gave him presence in two areas, as opposed to just giving him one big, wide area still centered around himself as it is now. It doesn't make much sense that it heals, either; it seems like an arbitrary addition, but it's not one I'll argue against if it means people won't complain about jungle Mordekaiser as much (it was perfectly fine before the heal, he just needs it now since he can't do the DoT when alone).

Krys StarSep 4, 20151 votes

CertainlyT, I'm in a game right now. Morde tamed dragon as his pet via his ult, and towerdove me and Vayne bot. His dragon attacked us first, and throughout the entire fight tower wouldn't switch aggro from dragon. It instead treated dragon as if it was a champion, and refused to switch to Mordekaiser. Is this intended??? Please tell me it is not. Because a dragon pet with 2300+ health at level 7 is insanely overpowered when used to towerdive because it also possesses a high amount of defense.

HäßlichSep 4, 20152 votes

Just want to reiterate that it's a retarded concept for non-supports to be bound to a duo lane. Terrible design philosophy in action.

Count ZubatSep 2, 201511 votes

Guess Rito thought Morde needs sustain to work on solo lane, while at the same time they are giving insane buff for duo Morde who was supposed to be nerfed... Wait what? Rito, pls, winners don't do drugs, stop.

SettDownShutUpSep 2, 20158 votes

No offense, but this kinda is what I personally was asking for.

Don't get me wrong, the buffs to bot-lane kaiser is silly, but the ability to cast for the instant heal IS nice. It feels viable for top morde again. Time'll tell though.

ModAcademy KaynSep 3, 20157 votes

It's the second patch of the PBE guys, give them some time. It's not like they're instantly done with him now.

Big LincolnSep 2, 20156 votes

i was reading the PBE in school today and i almost burst into laughter in the middle of class

jesus, riot, what's wrong with you

Vistha KaiSep 2, 20155 votes

They unlocked the door to CT's ~~cell~~ room and let him rework champions instead of/in addition to creating new ones.

Rinky DinkySep 3, 20153 votes

You just love to bitch dont ya man

FerezillaSep 3, 20152 votes

Now that all the cloest Mordekaiser mains have shown themselves... they're a whiny bunch, yeah.

Raid Boss MordeSep 3, 20154 votes

A whiny bunch? Mordekaiser was shoved out of his normal lanes and put bot, do you really think we'll be calm and okay with this?

DanoobielSep 3, 20153 votes

He needs to be able to use his full W when solo. If other stuff has to be nerfed for that, so be it. Please just let people play solo lane Morde again.

MortekaiserSep 3, 20153 votes

(excerpt from http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/UUAvYIKG-im-still-not-convinced-about-new-morde-being-healthy-fun-interactive-less-toxic-et-cetera)

Riot is not going to make solo morde viable. if he could self-cast W and still retain the heal, he would be unstoppable as a farming machine toplane, which is fucking hilarious to me, considering that while old morde could farm pretty well and fight melees relatively well, melees still had options against him, and could easily fight him, or just farm under turret, like most toplaners could do anyway. and if morde kept his lane pushed all the time, he was jungler gank bait.

now, if a solo morde that had the W heal available to him at all times was allowed to exist, toplane would become a veritable hell for any melee laning against him, and a joke for any team smart enough to take ranged shit like quinn top. midlane morde would still be shit though, even if the healing from W was brought back

NWO LuciferSep 3, 20152 votes

if i understand correctly when he self cast w it wont do anything unless it is reactivated again so why not dot damage for solo lane morde?

VhalthoriaSep 3, 20152 votes

Pre Rework Morde was a great pick against Riven and Jax, and was a skill matchup vs Irelia. The new Morde, however, struggles against all three.

What I bring with this is that in order to get him close to that he was without breaking him, it will certainly take more than just allowing him to self cast W. But sadly, I don't think Solo Morde is the priority for this version, never was. He is not a natural tank, lacks gap closers, CC, and now has an abyssal MS while being a melee champion now more than he ever was (Now his main source of damage are auto attacks). It will take a lot of work to make him viable solo.

BagebusSep 4, 20152 votes

So I'm ok with going bot lane as Kaiser it's been fun I'm getting to relearn a favorite old champ. My only issue is here is that W was useful because its aoe damage helped sustain his shield when taking damage or attempting to clear a wave under the tower. Now though I mean people are attacking your tower and your alone you get some damage off on E then your stuck AA creeps while trying not to be poked down. Now there tacking on a Health cost lowering damage and still not giving the AOE back on his W. Not to mention right now AD builds are from what I'm seeing more popular and W scales off AP so the health benefits of casting it probably aren't going to make a big difference to solo Kaiser. They should give him the ability to self cast W with out nerfing the damage to see how it affects his game play. I'm interested in how this will effect him, but I fear they're going to beat him to death with the nerfstick till He's just not viable to play any where.