PSA: Despite Yasuo's 20% Bonus AD "Compensation", the change to his E is still a flat-out nerf.

SzGamer227··40 votes·3,394 views

To everyone who's been saying "God forbid Yasuo gets a nerf without getting a buff to compensate," look at it this way before you go complaining that Riot is giving Riot special treatment instead.

Obviously the base damage reductions mean that this skill is weaker earlygame, but the 20% Bonus AD scaling doesn't give Yasuo any extra strength late game. In fact, unless Yasuo builds a significant amount of AD more than he should his E will still be doing less damage than it currently does.

Here's why.

At max rank, Yasuo's E deals 50 less damage than it currently does. In order to cover that deficit, Yasuo would need to build 250 Bonus AD. Additionally, the Bonus AD scaling doesn't benefit from the damage increase for subsequent casts of E, meaning not only does he need 250 Bonus AD to return his E to its normal damage, but that only normalizes the damage for E's first cast.

If Yasuo uses 3 E's within 5 seconds of each other right now, it would deal 150 damage, then 187.5 and 225 on the subsequent casts. Now, if Yasuo is using a build that grants him 250 Bonus AD to return the first cast's damage to 150, then the subsequent casts would only deal 175 and 200, which means that his E is still weaker even with the AD scaling.

Now, looking at a standard Yasuo build: item 3046 item 3031 item 3072 item 3022 item 3026

Notice that only 3 of these items give Yasuo Bonus AD. item 3031 item 3072 item 3022 This only adds up to 175 Bonus AD. The numbers: Instead of dealing 150, 187.5, 225 damage like it currently does, it would do 135, 160, 185. (If you want include 10 Bonus AD from Runes that Yas might take over AS, just add 2.)

Unless Yasuo players started doing whacky AD-heavy builds like building item 3812 instead of item 3026 and item 3508 instead of item 3046, you can rest assured that, even with the Bonus AD scaling, Yasuo will not be any more damaging late game than he already was/is.

TL;DR: These nerfs are a hard hit to early game E maxing, and still translate to less E damage late game unless Yasuo builds a ridiculous amount of Bonus AD to compensate.

97 Comments

venomous frost17 votes

completely true

but people complaining about yasuo don't complain about their E damage anyway, so you aren't achieving anything with this post to the yasuo haters.

Fondling Gems1 votes

Actually a big complaint I hear about Yasuo is how he can trade with you lv 1-2 by just e'ing through the wave to you then back out. Cutting that damage means that it is no longer a positive trade since you can break his shield as he slides in and it will be gone by the time he slides to you, so you so you can trade back.

I am just hoping it helps hurt his CSing a bit. Currently he practically has to try to miss CS and he can't farm under turret more easily than any other champion by lv 2 considering he has aa's, Q, and E. This means that pushing him in just isn't an option because he doesn't lose out on cs and you will run out of mana.

venomous frost1 votes

IMO, the bigger problem is that his tornado is so spammable in lane.

When he dashes to you, he is almost guaranteed to have his tornado up, thus you being hard CCed for a moment, while any damage you can put on him is blocked by his shield. Combine this with the fact that melees get kited in the minion wave, and most rangeds being weaker early, yasuo becomes a lane bully vs most champions. The moment you have to back up from a fight, he can charge his tornado for free the entire time.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about yasuo, since I main tryndamere and I played the matchup so much I win vs 95% of the yasuos. But I get the frustrations of most matchups. And the fact that he Is the only champ that can rush PD makes him a 1v1 monster, even in lane already.

Also, you argumented that his lvl 1 trade will get outtraded now, there's almost no champ that can outtrade his E + AA + shield.

Fondling Gems1 votes

As a ranged player I actually don't mind the matchup myself. At lv 1 most champions can trade almost equal with him since melee champs tend to have the resists to take less damage and ranged champions can proc his shield with an aa when he is stacking his E in the wave. Currently the trade was still always good for Yasuo though. Now he can't trade early so well because E was actually a lot of damage, especially since Yasuo maxes it first.

It is actually a really big impact on his lane before he starts to get past lv 9 at which point it starts to matter less as he gets more AS and Q reaches shorter CDs. Early Yasuo can be punished because Q has a 4 second CD, which means 2 Q's on wave before he can use it on you. That is a 12ish second window depending on how quickly he uses Q and how much AS he specs into early. While I agree the length he can hold onto tornado is annoying it does make sense vs ranged champions. Early on both his windwall and passive has substantial CDs. That means he needs some type of zoning tool to be able to farm. With his W and Passive that really only averages out to safety about 50% of the time.

The big issue is that his tornado hold time stays the same as the charge time drops to about 4 seconds total at 69% AS. If anything it's hold time should scale down with AS (Similarly to how Taric passive reduces CD's by less the more CDR you have.) because the uptime of his zoning tools keep increasing along with his late game power. Realistically his zoning tool is there to farm.

(Also for you math peeps Yasuo does a flat 15 less dmg with E lv 1. 20% bonus AD scaling only adds like 3-5 dmg at most. That is actually pretty impactful. It only gets worse as he keeps maxing it, down to -75 flat at max stacks.)

RlP K0BE13 votes

Too bad this will probably be ignored by all the people who don't care and just want Yasuo to join these guys Aatrox Vladimir AzirZed

FantasySniper18 votes

Zed still viable and decently popular.

Jofeyy10 votes

Dont know why they downvoted you... Im a zed main and im playing just fine. Finally im not treated as a nazi for playing him...

Red Silk1 votes

Teach me your ways. I'm trying to switch from yas to zed so I can stop being treated like a Nazi too, but I'm ass at zed qq

Papa Andrei3 votes

Just play Yorick. Emabrace your inner asshole

Jofeyy1 votes

He's actually a lot more fun than I thought he would be. But I switched to poppy... Now she's becoming nazi tier too... You just cant win Amumu

Papa Andrei1 votes

She is great if you just want to counter anything. She is a jack of all trades at countering enemies.

Virgin Ray6 votes

I mean in all honesty Yasuo 's e should do no damage, only used for mobility. His damage from his crit autos, q, and ult is enough. Hell, he already has a damage buffer after using his ult.

Takazaki1 votes

i cannot think of 1 dash in this game that doesnt do damage in some waym, shape or form

Quepha12 votes

{quoted}

i cannot think of 1 dash in this game that doesnt do damage in some waym, shape or form

Talon, Braum, Lee Sin's Safeguard, Rek'Sai (tunnel and ult), Tahm Kench, Twisted Fate, Shen (ult), Ryze, Zed.

YumScrumptious964 votes

Talon's E isn't really a dash. Braum is a support, Rek'Sai's tunnel isn't a dash, nor is Tahm's ult, nor is TF's, or Shen's. Zed's is a blink, Ryze also doesn't have a dash. There's a difference between a dash, teleport, and blink. Yasuo's dash is targeted, can only be used on enemies, and has a fixed distance constantly, unlike Lee's, or Braum's.

NineTailedMystic12 votes

How the fuck is Shen's E not a dash, or Reksai Tunnel?

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

In context of the people Quepha was using (TF, Tahm, Ryze) I think he meant his Ult.

Looknook2 votes

Shen's E is a dash but it deals damage, which disqualifies for the conversation above. I would count Rek'Sai's E as a dash that deals no damage.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

When ur brain stops working

NineTailedMystic1 votes

happens a lot apparently. Must be because I only use Gameplay.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Shen's E deals damage though.

ShaolinToilet7 votes

Graves

Glory ln Death2 votes

Lucian.

Also, Vayne and Ekko. They give access to damage, but the dashes themselves don't do any damage.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

Talon's E and Rek Sai's tunnel are both dashes. So is Braum, and I'm not sure what being a support has anything to do with dashes without damage.

And to add to the list, Riven's E, Bard's E, Thresh's second Q, Taliyah's ult, Lucian's E, Grave's E, A.Sol's E, Fizz's first Q, and Zed's ult are all listed as dashes that dont do any damage.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Support meaning why would you give a support who can only dash onto allies damage on said ability. Riven's E, provides shield, Bard's E is a tunnel multiple teammates can go through, Fizz Q does damage, Zed's ult blinks to the target and does damage no matter what.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

Gotta read it in context. We are all responding to a post that says:

{quoted}

i cannot think of 1 dash in this game that doesnt do damage in some waym, shape or form

Braums counts - its a dash that provides defensive steroids, not damage.

And i misstated - its Fizz's first E.

YumScrumptious961 votes

My point is that every dash in the game still sets up the champion using it, or provides more freedom of movement. Yasuo's can only be used on enemies, this means its very bad as an escape tool unless Yasuo is somehow behind your minion wave.

Takazaki1 votes

{quoted}

Talon's E and Rek Sai's tunnel are both dashes. So is Braum, and I'm not sure what being a support has anything to do with dashes without damage.

And to add to the list, Riven's E, Bard's E, Thresh's second Q, Taliyah's ult, Lucian's E, Grave's E, A.Sol's E, Fizz's first Q, and Zed's ult are all listed as dashes that dont do any damage.

ive argued halve of these already

sol and bard are on the list already i just forgot about bard

lucain, graves and riven both have damage tired in with the activation of those abilities as auto attack enhancers ( or in graves case enablers )

Fiiz Q does damage and playful/ trickster is only 1 abilities that has 2 casts so it still counts

zed ult applies death mark which has base damage

Takazaki1 votes

Talon- Q does damage E better argument but i forgot about his rework

bruam - fair although tanks normally dont have a dash like this so its an out lair

Lee- W has 2 parts and one gives life steal which is considered an offensive stat so id argue it still counts

Rek- tunnle force burrow knock up which does damage although ult does not do this so thats 2

tahm - ult is a blink with a channeled its not a dash

shen - again a channeled blink not a dash ( Upon completing the channel, Shen and his Spirit Blade blink to the target ally's location. )

ryze- if your talking about the ms boost no thats not a dash its a steroid, ult is a channeled blink

zed - W is again a blink when recasted and his ult applies death mark which causes damage

leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dash

the only other person i found other then rek and bruam was sol.

there are 94 ways to dash ( not counting snowball) and out of them only 4 do not cause damage 2 of them being on tanks for engage/disengage and the other being two a roaming mid laner to** help them get to where they need to be to do damage over long distances**

my point stands it makes very little sense why yasuo's dash should only be for movement

Quepha3 votes

{quoted}

Lee- W has 2 parts and one gives life steal which is considered an offensive stat so id argue it still counts

I would 100% disagree with you. In no way is lifesteal like damage, it merely scales in effectiveness with damage, not to mention that the ability is definitively not safeguard with its own separate cost and cast animation.

Takazaki1 votes

i should have clarified what i went by "way shape or form"

i ment in any was enhances combat directly through actually damage or a buff of some type

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

i should have clarified what i went by "way shape or form"

i ment in any was enhances combat directly through actually damage or a buff of some type

Movement enhances combat directly by putting you in a position to deal or avoid damage. A dash with no other effects would already fulfill the definition of directly enhancing combat.

Takazaki1 votes

i wouldn't count re positioning as a combat enhancer, as that would make simply right clicking a combat enhancer. i ment through the actual effect of the (an) ability uniquely increasing a champions ability to perform in combat through buffing or other wise interacting with the champions systems ( graves reload, Rivens scrapped edge meter etc)

this has gotten a little out of hand the point still stands that a vast majority of dash are tied to damage in some way shape or form even if you disagree with the amount that i came up with.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

this has gotten a little out of hand the point still stands that a vast majority of dash are tied to damage in some way shape or form even if you disagree with the amount that i came up with.

The point was that ALL dashes dealt damage so there would be no precedent to make Yasuo's dash no longer deal damage. That is undeniably false.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Talon- Q does damage E better argument but i forgot about his rework

bruam - fair although tanks normally dont have a dash like this so its an out lair

Lee- W has 2 parts and one gives life steal which is considered an offensive stat so id argue it still counts

Rek- tunnle force burrow knock up which does damage although ult does not do this so thats 2

tahm - ult is a blink with a channeled its not a dash

shen - again a channeled blink not a dash ( Upon completing the channel, Shen and his Spirit Blade blink to the target ally's location. )

ryze- if your talking about the ms boost no thats not a dash its a steroid, ult is a channeled blink

zed - W is again a blink when recasted and his ult applies death mark which causes damage

leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dash

the only other person i found other then rek and bruam was sol.

there are 94 ways to dash ( not counting snowball) and out of them only 4 do not cause damage 2 of them being on tanks for engage/disengage and the other being two a roaming mid laner to** help them get to where they need to be to do damage over long distances**

my point stands it makes very little sense why yasuo's dash should only be for movement

Azir Braum Ekko (first part of his E is technically a dash and does no damage, second part is a blink that does damage) Camille 's R is technically a dash without damage, but then it creates a zone with bonus on-hit damage. Should we consider that as damaging dash? I don't really think so. Graves LeeSin (W) Lucian RekSai Riven (E) Shaco (Q, but does bonus damage on next auto) Vayne (Q, but does bonus damage on next auto)

That's more than 4 in my book

Takazaki1 votes

Graves the shotgun system i said " in some way shape or form" i was talking about literally dealing damage from the dash in all instances

LeeSin there have been arguments about life steal being a defensive or offensive stat before i just personal consider it offensive because you have to attack to make use of it. thus a offensive buff.

Lucian his passive

Riven her passive

RekSai we have been over this we counted reksai's R in the 4

Shaco Vayne both auto attack enhancers this literally by definition increases their damage

Ruin Lance3 votes

blinks are not dashes

Elohaven1 votes

Ryze , Tahm Kench, Twisted Fate, Shen and Zed with a dash?

Your champion knowledge needs some work...

Civet101 votes

Shen has a dash.

YOUR champion knowledge needs some work

Elohaven1 votes

Yeah, it does. ;|

Takazaki1 votes

i learned that zed ult is a dash i always thought it was just some rito flavor text

Zedex3 votes

Riven's ERiven

J Eevo1 votes

While there's no reason to really go out of the way to change it atm I could actually easily see Yasuo's dash being a non damaging one if the rest of the kit was tweaked accordingly, considering he can already E into Q for a spinslash, making that the preferred damaging dash, especially since riot already wants to make Yasuo max Q and build AD

Takazaki1 votes

its actually a pretty big change

removes damage on e removes yasuo's early game almost entirely shifting that power onto his Q spin makes him push a wave during trades to the point where he will always be either at your tower or farming for 20 mins

taking away his ability to fight at all early completely ruins his chance at his late game because his mid game is already pathetic unless snowballed

Who is Taliyah1 votes

You can test it in a custom game. Everything that gets blocked by poppy's ability is a dash. Bard's tunnel counts as dash when going through,

Takazaki1 votes

the leauge wiki lists all dashes

dominusx6 votes

he doesnt need to do dmg on his E outside lane phase to be completely honest it's just a mobility spell to set up his Q's. dont think it will be too much but it will make his lane and his lvl 6 all in weaker.

YumScrumptious967 votes

E not doing damage would ruin the champion. You haven't played much Yasuo to even know that.

Virgin Ray3 votes

How would it ruin the champion? (I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I actually don't play enough Yasuo at all tbh)

captainkaiger6 votes

I'd like to see yasuo actually have to build damage to do damage again. I remember the early days when he was supposed to build crit and AD

More from Gameplay

More by SzGamer227