If you've never played CSGO, they have 14 maps plus maps for Operation passes and others. At times, they've been able to run well over 20+ maps with really only 2-3 having 10+ minute wait times. CSGO does this while having a lot less players than League.
What is so special about CSGO that they can have all of these active maps while Riot is unable to keep up more than a few different maps/modes?
CerealBoxOfDoom8 votesshorter matches simpler objectives simpler units who are all the same
We could be just like csgo but then you'd be playing a different game altogether
Great Muta1 votesGames are just as long if not longer. 30 rounds x 3 minute rounds plus warm-up. You can go over 90 minutes at max. I've never gone over 80 mins in League.
Don't see how objectives or units factor in here.
Zero0001 votes30 x 3 minutes so 30 games
in LoL something similar would be "best of 5" which can go over 5 hours
Great Muta2 votesYou really don't watch CSGO at all, do you? They play best of 3 and 5 depending on the tournament and stage.
CerealBoxOfDoom2 votesin cs:go are there even unique characters? Also the simplicity of the game makes the complexity of the environment more useful to the overall design. Increasing the complexity of more complex games (designwise) will ruin the game
Before you go trying to claim csgo characters are just as complex or anything try explaining how a character with gun X operates vs master yi or some other simple rightclick champ. There isn't much of a comparison once you consider the fact that without focusing on the gun itself everything is fairly simple and even then its hard to actually make the gun seem all that complicated.
Blue Collar Bear3 votesIt probably has something to do with League being coded in Adobe Air.
DrCyanide1 votesOnly the client is (was?), the game itself never was.
Blue Collar Bear1 votesEyyy. Guess what! You were right.
Rioter response enclosed.
Aptest3 votesIt is the other way around. what is so special about LOL that it can have varied game-play with only 1 map?
;)
Great Muta1 votesIf it can have varied play with 1 map, it would have double that with a second map under that logic, right?
;)
50000000000000001 votesWell, we have Twisted Treeline. The items and champion synergy are probably the biggest reason why we don't have more maps.
Great Muta1 votesThat makes things more interesting to me.
If the pros had to pick between multiple 5v5 maps, it would increase the strategic parts of the game and would very likely make them have to choose different champions, leading to more unique games. OW can do it, HOTS can do it, CSGO can do it, why can't Rito?
Aptest4 votesnot necessarily.
Games like CS-GO derive a lot of their variance from the different features on the different maps. Whether you have a flanking route or a stronghold central position determines a lot of the game-play in these games.
Whereas in league of legends variance is derived mostly from player choices on what to bring to the game (character, summoners) and how to develop the match in its varying stages.
Because a lot of the variance of in the game is player input, which stays the same between maps, an additional map for instance Twisted Treeline doesn't really add a lot to the core experience... I think.
At the end of the day the experience i think is that the additional maps (TT, dominion) don't add enough to justify their existence. TT somehow survives as a legacy token, whereas Dominion is deleted on that consideration.
Great Muta1 votesGames like CS-GO derive a lot of their variance from the different features on the different maps. Whether you have a flanking route or a stronghold central position determines a lot of the game-play in these games.
League could do this too. OW does. HOTS does, CSGO does, why not League? It freshens things up and would lead to more strategic diversity.
Whereas in league of legends variance is derived mostly from player choices on what to bring to the game (character, summoners) and how to develop the match in its varying stages.
Again, this could work in League as well.
Because a lot of the variance of in the game is player input, which stays the same between maps, an additional map for instance Twisted Treeline doesn't really add a lot to the core experience... I think.
At the end of the day the experience i think is that the additional maps (TT, dominion) don't add enough to justify their existence. TT somehow survives as a legacy token, whereas Dominion is deleted on that consideration.
I think both don't really fit the argument as one is 3v3 and the other has totally different objectives. I'm saying keep dragon, keep Baron, keep the turrets and keep the way farming is. You can do all of that and change the map around. Things would change big time if Baron and Dragon swapped sides, or if a lane had an obstacle in it that forced players to choose between two paths or whatever, but it would still keep the core of the game.
ChargeItDownMid2 votes[deleted]
Great Muta1 votesWhatever you want to call OW, it's popular and it sniped a huge group of players from TF2, Dota, LOL and CSGO. The general public doesn't know the difference.
Compared to a game like league or dota, heroes of the storm is a very boring and strategically shallow game due to the fact that blizzard is attempting to balance multiple heroes across multiple maps. The results of multiple maps is that each of them either become very imbalanced or very streamlined and the gameplay suffers.
That's opinion, not fact. Say this stuff on a HOTS forum and see how far it gets you.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
Great Muta1 votesEven if the general public doesn't know the difference, you should know the difference and why those differences means things which apply to overwatch do not apply to mobas. If you don't understand those basic differences, then you are highly unqualified to be discussing why league does not need multiple maps.
Yeah whatever dude. Maybe I can go to the same Ph(D for dumbass) school that Lyte went to.
Also, overwatch didn't "snipe" a huge group of players from either dota or league. League hemorrhaged players from dynamic queue independently of overwatch. Dota's playerbase did not change from late april to late september this year. Overwatch mainly stole players from other fps.
I go on all of the various subs and they've all mentioned that the playerbases declined after OW came out. OW didn't pull in a bunch of unique players who never played anything else.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
Great Muta1 votesIn the mean time, you should just assume that you don't know what you are talking about and listen to what other people say about league because you clearly don't know much about mobas.
I've yet to see a good name for what OW's genre is.
Again, overwatch stole a bunch of people from fps and other genras but had a limited impact on league and dota. This is due to the inherent differences in overwatch and mobas which make many elements which apply to overwatch not apply to mobas.
You can actually track dota's playerbase on steam over time and see that there was no change in playerbase between late april and early september. League was hemorrhaging players during season 6 well before overwatch came out as a result of dynamic queue.
I'd like to see more detailed data about Dota and what they consider active.
We only know League's PC Bang numbers. Seen very little else except for when they mention they hit 100 million.
The OW playerbase didn't come from nowhere. Those are all aren't first-timers and every person I know who played those games now also plays overwatch.
Ralanr1 votesIt's also an fps and not a moba. I don't understand why people feel the need to compare league and overwatch when their gameplay is very different from each other.
FioraWillCarry1 votesnot necessarily.
Games like CS-GO derive a lot of their variance from the different features on the different maps. Whether you have a flanking route or a stronghold central position determines a lot of the game-play in these games.
Whereas in league of legends variance is derived mostly from player choices on what to bring to the game (character, summoners) and how to develop the match in its varying stages.
Because a lot of the variance of in the game is player input, which stays the same between maps, an additional map for instance Twisted Treeline doesn't really add a lot to the core experience... I think.
At the end of the day the experience i think is that the additional maps (TT, dominion) don't add enough to justify their existence. TT somehow survives as a legacy token, whereas Dominion is deleted on that consideration.
This. +1
Bottom line, they are two completely different games. Maps in FPS Deathmatch games determine a lot about how the game is played. The champion variety alone in LoL is enough to make each game unique.
Dominick Destine3 votesThis has to be a troll thread.
Counterstrike is a first-person shooter. League of Legends is a MOBA. This is not complicated.
Great Muta1 votesOkay. So why is HOTS able to have multiple 5v5 pro maps while League has 1?
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6ALx4zr,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-11-20T20:25:53.018+0000)
why is HOTS able to have multiple 5v5 pro maps while League has 1?
I don't follow dead games.
Great Muta1 votesIf you ask a lot of people on here, League is a dying game.
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6ALx4zr,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T20:50:32.917+0000)
If you ask a lot of people on here, League is a dying game.
Numbers don't lie. Your joke game doesn't even have 1/10th of league's numbers.
gg.
Great Muta1 votesI haven't played it in months, so I wouldn't call it my game.
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6ALx4zr,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T22:29:36.103+0000)
I haven't played it in months, so I wouldn't call it my game.
Gets destroyed. Dissassociates from original argument. Person who destroyed you is shocked (/s)
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesMunches popcorn.
Interesting to watch two boards members the boards generally aren't fond of duke it out and see who is supported more.
mustafa28813 votescsgo is an fps game, league is a moba...
ShinkoMinori2 votesThey have all those maps but only 1 or 2 are used for competitive.
Great Muta1 votesIf you haven't played CSGO, please don't make it seem like you know.
There are currently 14 maps available for competitive play and there are over 20 when an Operation is available.
ShinkoMinori2 votesyou dont watch the tournaments do you.
Great Muta1 votesTheir Active Duty map pool for pro players, which is what you are discussing, has 7 maps, though some tournaments also did play on Operations maps.
The map pool for all players, even in ranked/competitive mode which is what I'm discussing, currently has 15 maps and had 23 maps with Operation Wildfire.
ADC5LUT2 votesNot to mention I don't think the queues try to match you up with players relative to your skill level.
Great Muta1 votesI think it's clear you don't have much CSGO experience, as CSGO does a good job of this and they have less issues like with Diamond players going up against professional players like League had this year.
420 grams1 votes[{quoted}](name=Careful Ima Trap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6ALx4zr,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-20T19:30:18.448+0000)
Not to mention I don't think the queues try to match you up with players relative to your skill level.
I mean, league doesn't really either.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 voteswhy does every one wanna compare league to other games? they arent made by the same creators ... they have different styles and what they want in their game.
its like apples and oranges
yes both are fruit but not the same kind of fruit
Stephenizgod1 votesWell two different games for starters, secondly because League has a large variety of champions and it is hard enough to balance them just for 1 map. Each champion has 4 abilities and a passive, plus they can build up to 6 items out of like 200+ items. There are multiple classes of champions and within those classes there are different types of champions that all do different things.
Basically League doesn't need more than the maps it has because there is an enormous amount of variety already, not to mention it would be a nightmare to balance 1 champion for like 5 different maps. It would be confusing for the player too because the champion has multiple different strengths and weaknesses for different maps.
Great Muta1 votesWell two different games for starters, secondly because League has a large variety of champions and it is hard enough to balance them just for 1 map
Well of course it's a different game.
Hots is a little bit closer and has different champions. Having some champs be stronger at some maps than others would create more competitive diversity. But let's be real here - this game isn't balanced and never has been.
Basically League doesn't need more than the maps it has because there is an enormous amount of variety already,
There's not
not to mention it would be a nightmare to balance 1 champion for like 5 different maps.
The game has never been balanced
It would be confusing for the player too because the champion has multiple different strengths and weaknesses for different maps.
Having 1 champ be strong one patch and then useless the next isn't confusing?
Stephenizgod1 votesHotS is also different, they don't have items, you don't need to CS, and the objectives are different in how they are taken. You can't compare two games that have completely different mechanics, what works in one game probably won't work in another.
This game won't be balanced, this is true, but that is somewhat intentional. They want to make a certain group of champions viable for a bit to keep the game interesting. If all champions were perfectly balanced it would be boring, there would be no reason to pick Jax over Kayle or Jinx over Kog'Maw. You can't have champions within a group (such as Marksmen) be good at different things and be balanced. One strategy is going to be dominant, the goal isn't really to balance them all, it is to shift the meta slowly over time by introducing new mechanics or reintroducing existing mechanics. That way the a different set of champions within a group is played and it just keeps cycling through.
There is a ton of variety in League, just because people only play and do the same things doesn't mean there is no variety. There are a lot of "off-meta" picks or builds that are incredibly strong, but are looked down on because they are not meta (for example try doing duo-bruiser bot lane, it works surprisingly well).
They tell us beforehand what changes they are making to a champion, we can use our knowledge of that champion and the game to gauge how viable that champion will be after the patch. Now imagine that one champion is getting nerfs and buffs for different maps, that would be hard to keep track of.
Great Muta1 votesthey don't have items
League has items, but you can't actually see them so it's little more than just stat GUI's.
you don't need to CS
You level up quicker by doing it IIRC
objectives are different in how they are taken.
Pretty much just group and try to beat the other team in the area or get it before they do.
If all champions were perfectly balanced it would be boring, there would be no reason to pick Jax over Kayle or Jinx over Kog'Maw.
See I disagree here. Even if everyone had equal stats, you'd want champs to do certain things and that's what they do a lot in LCS - finding champs to fit pieces of the puzzle.
Now imagine that one champion is getting nerfs and buffs for different maps, that would be hard to keep track of.
You wouldn't do it for individual maps. You'd just do it period. It would all even out since some champs would excel and do lesser on various maps.
Stephenizgod1 votesI was referring to HotS when I mentioned Items. They are more like ability upgrades.
I have played it, I know how it works.
LCS picks the most OP broken champion for a certain role. Whatever champion is the best at split pushing, they will pick that champ if they want to split push. If everyone was balanced why pick any split pusher over another.
You can't have one champion be broken strong on one map and weak on another, that will kill diversity on individual maps... If I wan't to play a certain champ on Map A but they are weakest on that map, am I just shit out of luck? Plus that is not how a MOBA works... sure certain champs are better at certain things, but all champions are viable if you put the time into mastering them (except like Kalista).
JackMcSnipeyz1 votesReal simple, while all these maps are different, the game mode is the same (bomb defuse). In league, the mode is connected to the map hand in hand, different maps = different modes = more different ques.
If anything, you should compare it to heroes of the storms rotating maps, but they still keep the core mechanic of the game, and god knows i dont want having the game decide randomly which map im gonna play.
Stars Shaper1 votesOfftopic but each time I read "CS GO" I always envision a Call of Duty version of Pokèmon Go.
DrCyanide1 votesIn FPS games the map is just a stage where any objective (capture the flag, control points, etc.) can be copy/pasted in. They usually have many game modes with no physical objective, including Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, Zombies, etc. As long as the players have somewhere to run-and-gun that's somewhat interesting and somewhat balanced, the map is doing it's job.
Try to imagine if League worked that way. You've got no Turrets, no Inhibitors, no Nexus's, no minions, no jungle monsters, no Baron, no Dragon, no Vile Maw, no Alters. Such a game mode would be able to have almost limitless ways to redesign the paths through what we now call the jungle, because there's no objectives to center the conflict over.
Such a mode also wouldn't feel like League of Legends at all.
League is first and foremost a game about objectives, primarily Towers, Inhibitors, and Nexus's. We've had a grand total of one permanent game mode that didn't follow that format, and that was Dominion, the game mode that was played by so few people it was demoted to a Featured Game Mode. If it's going to be a map for League of Legends, it needs Towers, Inhibitors, and Nexus.
Towers need lanes, so any map would also need lanes. Lanes need to have something separating them, which has lead to Jungles. All of the current permanent maps have a set number of lanes and jungles:
If a map copies the number of lanes and # of jungles from another map, it'll likely be considered a re-skin, providing an extremely similar experience. Thus if you want more maps for League, you've got to add more lanes/jungles.
"Fine," you say, "Lets just add more lanes!"
Well, how far can you carry that? At 4 lanes you've gotten rid of the support position, making 4 solo laners and 1 jungler. At 5 lanes you've gotten rid of the jungler, having 5 solo laners instead. You've hit the physical maximum number of maps without dramatically changing the objectives (which again, our friend Dominion didn't have lasting success with).
"But what about Heros of the Storm, they have tons of maps!"
Heros of the Storm maps are focused around the neutral objectives. Teams spend a lot of time fighting for the neutrals. When was the last time you decided what map you wanted to play based on if you wanted Alters+Vile Maw in your game vs Dragons+Baron Nashor? Likely never, and it's because the focus of League Maps isn't on the neutral objectives.
TL;DR: League's pretty much capped out on maps. If Riot's really cleaver there might be a way to add one map, but certainly not 10 more.
