The problem with CotC isn't that it's too strong, it's strong on too many champions, so HOW ABOUT...

SzGamer227··21 votes·1,761 views

INSTEAD of being a fixed-duration shield that gets smaller with every patch, we make it start decaying 1 second after hard cc from its champion of origin expires, so it is effective when triggered by champions with stronger initiation abilities but weaker for champions that only inflict brief hard cc?

IN ADDITION, how about we revisit the other Resolve keystones, since not only is the problem that Courage too strong, but also that the other keystones are too weak, and are only worth considering for champions who can't abuse Ferocity keystones or CotC?

The way I see it, the problem with CotC can be summed up like this: Almost any champion that maxes Resolve and has a way to inflict hard cc is a champion that should be using Courage of the Colossus. Obviously, this needs to change, and instead of nerfing CotC into the ground, I think a better alternative would be to make CotC a more specialized keystone, and polish its counterparts so they get their chance to shine as well.

For Courage of the Colossus, this means making it so that champions with very brief hard cc (such as Darius with his pull) cannot make as effective use from it, and in turn make it the better choice for champions with more impatcful tools for inflicting hard cc (such as Leona and Amumu).

For Grasp of the Undying, this means getting rid of its damage aspect (which is about as impactful as Fresh Blood (a tier-2 mastery) and completely irrelevant late game by the Titanic Hydra) and making it solely a source of sustain for tanks in extended fights. 3 or 4% max health healing every 4 seconds while in combat is a decent earlygame grab and useful in late game fights since the "% max health in-combat sustain" niche is untouched.

For Bond of Stone, this means buffing its damage reduction aspect (which currently provides a negligible amount of effective HP for tanks compared to the other Resolve keystones, which can be activated indefinitely to extend the amount of HP they give you. Grasp, as weak as its sustain is, outperforms Bond after 12 seconds in combat, and CotC blows it out of the park if even its smallest shield absorbs its full amount of damage). Additionally, the damage redirection mechanic should automatically target allied champions that are taking damage (prioritizing those with the least health) rather than mindlessly directing damage from the nearest ally.

As a top lane main, I'd really like to see more fairness in the Resolve tree keystones, and see Courage of the Colossus has a more specific niche rather than being nerfed into meh-ness like Grasp of the Undying was. It would also be great to see Grasp of the Undying a desirable keystone for top lane and Bond of Stone for support, so there is a more significant choice for champions who can use both, and so the champions who can't use CotC don't feel left out.

I'm curious to see what people think about my proposed change to CotC (would it be better than simply reducing its shield power further or would it still be problematic?), but be sure to comment what you think about the other changes as well!

31 Comments

BastionKross7 votes

At this point, I just want Riot to treat the resolve tree as equal to the other two instead of the red-headed stepchild it currently is. There are non-keystone resolve masteries that really could use a visit from the buff fairy. And if the fairy is generous enough, we may begin to have a meta where everyone doesn't lose a quarter of their HP every time an enemy looks in their general direction.

As for the keystones, I like your suggestions for Grasp and CoC. Riot might fight you on Grasp, because they just hate seeing wet noodle fights top lane in the LCS. I mean, watching a Malphite and a Maokai have a five minute long trade and not deal significant damage to each other isn't going to bring in lots of interest from the audience. I personally always imagined that as just a part of the game; when you have two tanks fight each other in just about any game it's going to be long and boring. A necessary evil, at least if you want to continue to have tanks in the game.

As for Bond, I think it should be replaced completely. I mean, damn, they introduced an item that does the same thing but better in almost every way. What it should be replaced with is anyone's guess. We could bring back Strength of Ages, but it was removed for a good reason. You'd probably have to come up with something unique.

Spoofghoul3 votes

wet noodle fights are fun though

some of the best moments in lol was when i was playing Sion and fought a Maokai for 10 minutes straight

epic shit

neither of us could kill each other, and the other teammembers of either party would occasionally, after dying, type in all chat was watching the toplane fight

Gregor Gysi1 votes

Remember when Tanks went into the other masteries because they were just that good? No, I can't either.

Remember when Assassins went into the other masteries (and I am talking about Grasp and not CoC) because they were just that good? Yup.

Also, are you watching LCK right now? We have that wet noodle fight + Singed, knock yourself out with that shit.

LankPants3 votes

I'd also like to see it shifted from %max HP to %bonus HP with the number adjusted accordingly. It would just make the mastery weaker on people like Vi who don't typically get the same HP pools as an actual tank.

A Basic Island1 votes

would also make it nearly worthless early game

kile1471 votes

It should be effective on divers like Vi though. Their niche is supposed to be durability/sticking power. To that end they should be building Fervor or a defensive keystone.

Void Consumed2 votes

Or we could bring back SoA and call it a day?

SzGamer2273 votes

Then the decision-making is gone. Grasp for top, Bond for sup, Strength for jungle. There's also the reasons that Riot gave regarding the abuse of SoA for non-tank junglers: "The problem: most junglers now end up with 300 extra health, plus other survivability bonuses from the Resolve tree. This works for tanks, but when damage threats find success with defensive setups, opponents have no means of fighting back."

RamboDash152 votes

Leona Alistar Maokai YES PLEASE

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Harder to code, but decent idea.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Thing about Bond of Stone is that you are also taking damage for an ally. This is the tradeoff for it not mitigating as much flat damage as grasp after 12 seconds of combat, which to be fair isn't even the normal amount of time of an average teamfight anyway.

SzGamer2271 votes

Yes yes, but the thing is, you don't have to get all three Grasp procs in one fight. You can skirmish for 4 seconds 3 different times and still get more effective HP than Bond's damage reduction.

Also, even if Grasp's damage is negligible, it's still a one-up that Grasp has over Bond. The damage redirection is fine earlygame for supports when the carry is the only ally that's going to be affected by it, but once a team fight rolls around, you have to sacrifice good positioning to give the damage redirection to the ally you want to protect, all for a negligible bonus that likely won't even decide the outcome of a fight (the damage redirection has to compete with lifesteal, and how often does the carry live with only a sliver of health anyways?)

At the moment, both Grasp and Bond are both barely decent in earlygame and totally underwhelming late game, whereas CotC is not terrible early and very influential in team fights. Flat buffs to both would feel great, and Bond would still have less self-defensive power than Grasp or CotC unless it had an outrageous amount of damage reduction (like 10%).

ChaddyFantome1 votes

while I sympathize with what you are saying, my point is more that bond of Stone is harder to appreciate than the other 2 and that keeping the concept but reworking the functionality of the mastery would be the first step is truly "fixing it, as increasing the Damage reduction would actually made it broken. That shit was nerf'd several times for a reason.

An idea i had was maybe have it generate a gray health effect on the user and the ally damage is being mitigates by.

SzGamer2271 votes

At the very least they should change the way Bond of Stone applies damage redirection to allies the way I suggested. Would a 1% increase to its damage reduction be nice? Yes, but the most annoying part of BoS is controlling which ally is having their damage redirected, which is just another thing you need to have on your mind if you're going to try to get use out of your keystone mid- to late-game.

Shuriman Curator1 votes

I just had a thought today about CotC.

What if...

The user with CotC would do less damage by a % for a set amount of seconds after procing the mastery? Like a trade off? Shield for less damage? Just an idea.

CountSpatula1 votes

Maybe it should scale with the number of champions hit by hard cc someone like poppy doesn't get a huge shield when she lands e on 1 target

Ralanr4 votes

Doing so hurts tanks that don't have AoE hard CC.

In the short run it could work, but it also ruins some options.

CountSpatula1 votes

{quoted}

Doing so hurts tanks that don't have AoE hard CC.

In the short run it could work, but it also ruins some options.

It's a terrible concept which should be removed, too hard to fix without hurting someone

Ralanr3 votes

It's actually a great concept but just really overtunned.

CountSpatula1 votes

{quoted}

It's actually a great concept but just really overtunned.

How is it great? In most cases you get too much reward for point and clicking someone, not to mention the cc itself

Ralanr2 votes

Cause not every hard CC ability is just clicking on someone. It heavily rewards engagement tanks for doing their job by giving them extra survivability in those first few seconds. Engaging a team as Sion or Zac now grants a big reward and gives you more time to survive and contribute to the fight.

A few bad examples don't define it.

I agree that it should be weaker 1v1 and stronger in teamfights, but forcing it to be specific on how many targets you hit makes it very inconsistent, unlike masteries like Grasp or TLD.

CountSpatula1 votes

{quoted}

Cause not every hard CC ability is just clicking on someone. It heavily rewards engagement tanks for doing their job by giving them extra survivability in those first few seconds. Engaging a team as Sion or Zac now grants a big reward and gives you more time to survive and contribute to the fight.

A few bad examples don't define it.

I agree that it should be weaker 1v1 and stronger in teamfights, but forcing it to be specific on how many targets you hit makes it very inconsistent, unlike masteries like Grasp or TLD.

But people play something with point and click cc more because why bother hitting a 2-3 man sion ult when you have something like a naut r which gives you the same shield and is more reliable

Ralanr2 votes

That's why I'm hoping for a vanguard update. To make tanks have more tools to play with and have more counterplay. Overall increasing their skill ceiling.

CountSpatula1 votes

{quoted}

That's why I'm hoping for a vanguard update. To make tanks have more tools to play with and have more counterplay. Overall increasing their skill ceiling.

They are known for being mechanically simple and hardly counterplayable so I'm curious. When is the update tho if there is one?

Ralanr1 votes

Probably the midseason or next preseason.

Honestly I'm seeing more delayed abilities on tanks at worst.

CountSpatula1 votes

{quoted}

Probably the midseason or next preseason.

Honestly I'm seeing more delayed abilities on tanks at worst.

So, we are stuck with poppy/naut/maokai every game, feelsbadman

Ralanr2 votes

Not with ten bans coming. We even got Sion in an LCK game.

It was glorious. MVP vs BBQ.

Glory ln Death1 votes

There's a team named "BBQ"?

Sounds tasty!

Glory ln Death1 votes

What if it were something like: "3% max health per nearby champion, doubled to 6% max health for champion hit by the hard CC."

Max shield strength goes up to 30% health, but only for full 5-man CC. For single target champs, theyd get 18%. In a teamfight, 3 hit with CC with 2 in range gives 24% shield, slightly lower than currently. Slightly stronger in 1v1's, but usually slightly weaker in groups, unless you have decent AOE CC.

It could be changed to 4%, increased to 6%, if 3 is too low (26% for 3 hit, 2 nearby).

kile1471 votes

I think a better idea would be to nerf the duration but have that duration be refreshed upon landing more cc.

Ex: Gain a 5% max hp shield upon landing hard cc that lasts for 2.5 seconds (+.5 second for subsequent cc landed within the duration).

grug1 votes

its exponentially stronger on champs that can either heal or generate shields in their kit in addition to cc

i think thats why so many people are pissed off at the state of Vi CotC

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