So mages are better better assassins than assassins and comparable supports to supports...

[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E0ice0v0,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-18T08:02:52.251+0000)

I like a lot of your points, and its true that Ahri did lose a fair bit with the damage amp removal. She did get some AP scaling and base damage buffs, and her Q MS buff for compensation. Still laning against her vs say a Talon or Zed? You people are going to act like Ahri doesnt have a poke, poke, poke GAP CLOSING ALL IN! play pattern like them? Really? If Zed or Talon are behind, they 100-10 a target... I guess that means theyre not assassins if they fall behind.

Anyway, nice points, but we have to be careful with having our "own definitions" as to what stuff is. That just leads to "LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU" moments in discussions.

Clip this out form your post:

Taken from the "assassin" wiki: "An assassin is an agile champion that specializes in killing or disabling high value targets. Focused on infiltration, deception, and mobility, assassins are opportunistic hunters who find favorable moments within a fight before jumping into the fray. Regardless of the size of the enemy team, assassins specialize in positioning and artful killing. They strike when the time is right – no sooner, no later."

Ahri development:

By Ryan 'Morello' Scott

Greetings Summoners!

Back in the end of September, we announced The Nine Tails Fox much to the excitement of our community. Well the time has finally come and after much anticipation, we wanted to reveal the gameplay style for Ahri, the Nine-Tailed Fox.

Ahri Ahri's gameplay style revolves around mobility and managing position to aim her spells. When played properly, Ahri darts around teamfights, picking off wounded stragglers and harrying soft enemies.

This is largely accomplished through her Spirit Rush ultimate, which allows her to dash multiple times before going on cooldown. Ahri can either use all three quickly to chase, burst, or escape, or she can spread out their uses to keep enemies guessing and juke around the battlefield. Combining this with her high magic damage and her Charm ability to lock enemies down, she can strike from unexpected angles or bait enemies into over-committing to disadvantageous situations.

Ahri's major gameplay decisions are based on her assessment of risk/reward. Her burst is high, but must be in short range to maximize it. This creates a dynamic that requires her to endanger herself to reach full potential. Play it safe and have more light damage, or commit and go for the kill? Use your dash for damage, or save it for escape? The choices are constant with these opposed strengths and weaknesses.

Her kit is really designed to appeal towards opportunistic players who prefer characters with a lot of action, and especially players that like to lull enemies into overconfidence, only to capitalize and punish them. Ahri's dangerous, seductive nature is something we're happy to deliver for players who like to toy with their enemies before destroying them.

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I know what the wiki says for assassins, and Ahri plays like an assassin. She has every trait, all the assassin hallmarks. Yeah her damage took a hit, but they replaced it with a truckload of mobility. If shes so much of a kite mage, why does it feel like a kite that is trying to catch up with you to kill you!? Hashtag: Murder Kite (in theaters this summer). Like an assassin, when she decides its time to go in, she does so with damage dealing-gap-closers like Talon and Zed. Looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, albeit a slightly less muscular duck, still pretty ducky... Im going with duck... an assassin duck... note to Rito, new champ needs to be an anthropomorphic assassin duck.

Well if all that didnt sway anyone, and the addition of assassin ducks wasnt slightly funny, then Im done. You guys can take your "ultra mobile kite mage" and have it. Im not calling her an assassin just cause of the label in the client, but also because her playstyle hasnt changed that much.

I have to agree with pretty much everything you said sans 1 point: "You people are going to act like Ahri doesnt have a poke, poke, poke GAP CLOSING ALL IN! play pattern"

That's EXACTLY what she does. And it's why I don't think she's an assassin like the others. Ahri needs to poke poke poke first. Since when does a Talon or Zed poke the enemy ADC a few times before going all in? Never. Ahri has the ability to do it. Maybe that makes her an assassin, she's able to get targets down low enough before going all in.

I think Ahri CAN be played like an assassin. You CAN build her for lots of burst with . Most players prefer to build her like (I just looked that up, I expected the last item to be but I guess the nerfs stopped that). She doesn't quite have the burst there then, not enough AP or item actives with AP ratios to get her there.

Regardless though, she still could be defined an assassin. I guess the point then comes down to "when's the last time someone has seen an Ahri support played seriously?". I personally build on her and play her like a kite mage though - that is until I'm 6/0 and start assassinating people with the lead.

Brand doesn't have good early base damages from my memory.

But still if leblanc and kat screws up what can they offer to the team other than damage?

Leblanc has two snares so i guess thats something.

Their wave clear when defending their towers is also risky to do since they have to be inside the minion wave to do it, while mages can clear the minions from a safe distance, so unless your team has waveclear from the adc or top lane role good luck.

They trade that small mobility for the instant Hard CC Veigar and Syndra have though.

CR Q lasts for less than a second.

Veigar is more mobile than him for over 75%, considering base movement speed and Luden's.

Blue square really does need ms buffs, its not even funny.

Even if she's not exactly slow, I still wouldn't call her mobile. MS buffs doesn't really make champions mobile, she still has no escapes, and a simple slow is enough to catch and kill her.