@ Riot; Let's talk about strategy and why every recent change to the game spits in it's face.

Unward49··3 votes·411 views

TLDR Stop designing low interactivity champions who's only win condition is to scale into the late game and win while simultaneously making it easier and easier for them to achieve this.

Ok, let's just name a few champions here, just as examples of why you either don't know what the fuck you're doing or you just need to change your design process to make sure this shit doesn't happen as often. Mistakes I can accept, but this is a fucking pattern now, this is systemic horseshit and it needs changing.

First, we need to just accept as fact that you have gutted early game champions indirectly by making it so much easier to achieve a late game state. I could provide examples for this, but I don't feel I need to. You said yourself at the beginning of this season that this was one of your goals and I don't think there's anyone with a functioning cranium who would disagree with the truth of the statement "It is easier to get to late game now than it has been in earlier seasons".

Done, good, we have established that late game is easier to achieve.

Now, with that said, let's look at your new fucking Champions and why they are bullshit.

Fiora. This fucking bitch is the worst offender of this design concept that I have ever seen. First, her bullshit dueling mechanic makes it IMPOSSIBLE to counter build her. You can't build damage to beat her, because she will negate it. You can't build tankiness to withstand her because she deals % max hp true damage, enough to completely kill someone. She has built in sustain mechanics TIED to said % max hp true damage.

This means, that the optimal way to deal with her is to NOT deal with her. Pick someone like malphite who can do to her what she does to everyone else, punish her for trying to stop him from farming. Trouble is, she's just flat out better at it, but the end result it, you end up with a completely non interactive lane.

Fiora is a bitch to gank because she's mobile, she's impossible to duel most of the time because, oh shit, she's the grand duelist, dueling is WHAT SHE DOES and she scales so strongly into the late game that if you let her get there, she can just win the game by herself.

Good, that's fun. I can't fight her, I can't withstand her and if I let her just keep farming, I lose.

And this isn't even the Nasus kind of bullshit. Nasus is gated by TIME. Fiora is only gated by GOLD. If her team is taking towers and dragons and barons while she's by herself being completely invincible, then she achieves late game EVEN FASTER.

GP is exactly the same kind of utter goddamn bullshit. He builds himself a fortress of fucking solitude and then DARES you to come into and die where he has every advantage. He sits and he farms and then he kills your bot lane with his Ult that NOBODY can stop. Let's talk about the interaction possibilities of getting killed by a GP ult shall we?

Can the person standing next to GP conceivably stop him from pressing the R key? In real life maybe, they could break both the player's hands, but in game terms, no. If the player wishes to depress the R key, then so shall it be depressed. Ok good, can we teleport ourselves down there to try and provide help? Sure, but by the time we get there, the damage will already have been done and GP will get to do what he wants anyway, he will get to free farm his lane. That's all he wants to do is farm to 6 items and then win because he becomes invincible, because his barrels will do enough damage to kill anyone no matter how tanky they are.

Do you see the pattern emerging here?

You are introducing more and more and more champions who's win condition is "Get 6 items and then automatically win" And you are making it easier and easier for them to achieve this goal. This is not creating a more fun game. It is creating a less fun game.

The most fun games to me are the ones where i have maximum interaction with the other players. Those crazy games where you fight at level 1 and everyone uses all their summoner spells and its like 3 kills to 2 at 1:15. Then there's ganks and counter ganks constantly throughout the game and it's because the situation you're in makes it optimal to play in this way. You end up with 2 incredibly strong people on your team and 3 utterly weak and pathetic ones who change their builds up completely to support the other 2 who are carrying and there's constant fighting and constant towers going down and back and forth madness and at the end you feel like you ran a video game marathon.

The game you are designing however seems to encourage people to build to 6 items without ever doing anything and then the side who has the more op champions just wins. This seems to be the direction it is going. You punish early fighting strategies, you buff champions in the late game while smoothing out their early game strengths all the while introducing these utterly bullshit none interactive early game, unstoppable late game champs.

There is only 1 viable strategy in SOLOQ atm. It is to pick the most OP late game champs. You can't ban them all and you can't counter pick them, so you better make damn sure more of them make it onto your team.

Do you want to know the most fun thing you released recently was?

Sion.

Yeah, that thing. All of his spells are interactable. His passive is a bit silly, but even that, you can generally kite away from as the enemy and gives the Sion player a good incentive to just go ham. As the Sion player, you want to work with your team in order to maneuver your enemies into your skill shots and as the enemy you want to try and kill the damage dealers while juking and dodging around Sion. It's super fun to play from BOTH sides and most importantly, if you actually do get hit and cc chained by Sion, you have no one to blame but yourself. Everything he does you can see coming a mile away, so it's on you TO GET OUT OF THE WAY if you don't want to get hit by it.

GP? On, he just killed you by pressing R from the complete opposite side of the map. Not even like Karthus' bullshit, at least you can not only see that coming for 3 seconds before the damage hits allowing you to heal or shield the damage, YOU CAN CC HIM TO STOP IT ENTIRELY!

6 Comments

disregardable1 votes

First, we need to just accept as fact that you have gutted early game champions indirectly by making it so much easier to achieve a late game state. I could provide examples for this, but I don't feel I need to.** You said yourself at the beginning of this season that this was one of your goals**

I haven't seen a game won by 30 through early, recognizable power spikes in a long time. But I don't remember them making that a goal for the season. If anything, they said they wanted increased diversity in strategies and compositions, so you're going to need to source that. I see the current meta as a failure, not an intentional creation.

Unward491 votes

Can't remember where I saw it, but they gave towers those shields, they made the jungle harder to clear, and they made inhib turrets worthless in gold and with that fucking laser. And remember when the laser ALSO shreded your damage? They reverted that one cause it just made EVERY game go to 50 minutes, but still.

It was all directed at getting to late game easier.

disregardable1 votes

I can see why you'd think that, but it's also not like they're directly saying that either. I remember both for the shield and the gold decrease they said it was to make games less snowbally, not to make games easier to stall.

Also, remember to use the reply button if you want people to see your post!

Unward491 votes

My recollection from a patch note was that they said it was intentional.

My point isn't that it is necessarily intentional however, only that it is true on which fact I think we both agree.

I mean, even the goal of "preventing snowballing" is a measure that makes it easier to achieve 6 item late game. Snowballing is how weak late game champions beat strong late game champions. By having more items than them. If you make it harder to do that, you make them worthless or at least, you make it much harder for them to be viable.

Dediguise1 votes

I mean, even the goal of "preventing snowballing" is a measure that makes it easier to achieve 6 item late game. Snowballing is how weak late game champions beat strong late game champions. By having more items than them. If you make it harder to do that, you make them worthless or at least, you make it much harder for them to be viable.

I agree with a lot of this post, and snowballing can apply to any champ, but let's highlight a few previous cancers this benefited. Akali KatarinaLeeSin Vayne Tryndamere. These are just a few examples from previous seasons that relied solely on snowballing. And it sucked to play against them.

There is a difference between rewarding skilled players for outplaying their opponents and rewarding players for creating unwinnable scenario's for their opponents(being camped, level 2 ganks). The latter is snowballing. And it is not conducive to interactive gameplay. The changes to reduce snowballing did have some unintended( or poorly thought) out consequences though

These changes to early gold mostly effected the jungler by lowering the risk AND reward for invading, counterjungling and camping. The issue this did create is it made bot lane an even larger priority. Due to the changes to snowballing, junglers now focus on getting two kills bot rather than snowballing a sololaner(Solo experience < less effective than dragon control) and this pressure(along with deliberate nerfs) completely undermined lane bullies. This resulted in playmaking supports paired with hypercarries every game.

This resulted in top laners runningsummoner 12 and thus to riots recent changes to bruisers and duelists. They are overpowering select tops in an effort to give them a playstyle that makes them a threat to hypercarries. The downside is that they have effectively castrated many champs who have no where else to go. The other problem is that they are creating champions that are effective at all times as opposed to having interactive powerspikes. This again shuts down many top laners as riot has failed to update the melee lane bullies with the same powerspikes.

What we really need is something to encourage junglers to stay in the top half of the jungle. Maybe dragon and baron should rotate after every respawn. Maybe a special type of tower( or fortification) in top lane. Frankly it needs to have something to differentiate it from bot as opposed to being a copy paste.

Unward491 votes

I think you're half right.

I think what really needs to happen is that Riot needs to stop making sweeping changes to things every 2 weeks. If something is truly broken and OP, they should hotfix it on a per-case basis, but give metas a chance to form and reform and go through an actual period of play and counter play. I'm sure there IS a pretty decent counter to late game focused champs, but it's almost certainly on the macro strategic level, not on the individual pick/counter pick level and you can't teach the Pub Zerg new tricks in 2 weeks. That's the kind of thing you need months to achieve.

But that's probably a rant for another topic that will get instantly downvoted and shoved to the bottom of the boards.

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