I'm not usually one to call out stuff like that, but I think this is pretty funny

Malicious Metal·Jan 30, 2018·118 votes·4,633 views

Paddle Star (Q) cooldown increased from 7.5/7/6.75/6.5/6.25 to 8.5/8/7.5/7/6.5

0.25 seconds higher cooldown is really going to make a difference here :^)

111 Comments

MarshbouyJan 30, 201848 votes

At least it's more punishing early game, but it does nothing to stop her from annihilating health bars from 34120 miles away.

AbibyamaJan 30, 201871 votes

Sorry to be that EU guy but:

54 910.8173 kilometers away*

Sahn UzalJan 30, 201837 votes

doing god's work.

ChuShoeJan 30, 201836 votes

Long live the metric system

General Esdeath Jan 30, 201828 votes

I prefer Imperial system because I have a foot fetish and like Darth Vader.

Tails9016Jan 31, 20189 votes

foot fetish and like Darth Vader.

Wait what.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 201818 votes

Imperial system uses feet

Darth Vader was an Imperial

Tails9016Jan 31, 201811 votes

Darth Vader was an Imperial

No wonder I could never get into any of the movies except for Rouge one kappa*. (Of course I haven't seen the latest SW movie).

* I just didn't like the first 7, nothing to do with metric/imperial

General Esdeath Jan 31, 201819 votes

Reported

Tails9016Jan 31, 20185 votes

Pls no. First my perfect attendance for school, now League and being reported?

General Esdeath Jan 31, 201817 votes

say bye to ur account kidd0

Vistha D ReptileJan 31, 20182 votes

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Sahn UzalJan 31, 20186 votes

Damn Faithless imperials

AhristocatsJan 30, 201829 votes

it's 1 second higher at rank 1

and 1 sec in lane on a spammable spell IS A LOT

I would have 100% win rate on Morde if E cd was 5 sec at rank 1 instead of 6

RainbowIceeJan 30, 201813 votes

i'd have 100% win rate with Karthus is his ult was 5 sec CD

General Esdeath Jan 30, 201810 votes

But it's also limited by mana in early game, once she hits 9 it's 0.25 seconds shorter and she'll have more mana/damage by then.

SkorchJan 30, 201811 votes

BUT the fact its not only mana gated AND getting 1 second longer CD means that IN LANE youll be able to survive lane longer, take less poke, and potentially fight back more often cause you will have more health. Meaning she WONT be fed 4/0 by 10 min.

A LOT of the "WOAH ANNIHILATED ME" Were AFTER she was way too fed. I had 1 game where a Kat fed 0/5 in lane. THEN was like: "God i dodged everything and she still killed me in a few hits, Zoe broken." No she has 1 1/2 items on you, and you are level 6 to her 8 or 9.

To put simply. This change targetted her early, which means fewer Zoes will get fed early.

I PERSONALLY think that her damage is high. But because of that im not gonna look at this and think its negligible.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20188 votes

I think you're missing the point, the base damage being way too high AND scaling really well is the issue. If her Q was a legit little poke, like 50 damage early and she had to poke you down, it wouldn't be so bad. Right now it's like Urgot firing off ults at you every 6 seconds, a single hit could be your death and it's on a very low CD for its damage.

SpârkyJan 31, 20187 votes

But she only has 2 spells that deal damage so if her spells dont do a lot of damage then she will be the worst and most useless champion in league.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20188 votes

Her passive is a lich bane scaling with 25% AP and her W can spawn 3 magic bubbles that auto target and are empowered by her passive with each bubble dealing 13.3% AP

FairyfleurJan 31, 20181 votes

It's much harder to get in AA range than it is to fire off a Q, and her W is reliant on enemy summoner spells or minions that can be kept away from you by the enemy.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20186 votes

The thing is you're not trying to get into AA range, they are.

Her W bubbles can proc from her own summoner spells too.

SkorchJan 31, 20181 votes

50 damage for a poke move in lane is too low period, her damage LATE is strong, if she gets fed, yes. Thats how a lot of champions work. And her poke in lane is pretty manageable anyways. I ALWAYS see people dying after she gets fed, they feed the hell out of her, cause they dont know how to fight her, then complain their one shot. Even then it more often than not takes her full combo to 100-0, which any DECENT mage can do if 9/0. The Ez video is an outlier.

Hell you can completely shitstomp her if you can get on her, either with a gank or w/e, or outrange her. And before I hear "BuT ShE jUsT E's mE wHen I gEt CloSe." Yeah. A lot of mages can do that... Its actually the only defense she and they have. just off the top of my head in 3 seconds.

Putting most of her agency in Q is probably a problem. I even stated her damage gets pretty high. But she is NO WHERE NEAR the monster people say she is.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20184 votes

50 at level 1 is not low.

NineTailedMysticJan 31, 20182 votes

ikr, Ahri Q is 70 at rank 1.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20183 votes

To be fair that one comes back and does true damage. I want Zoe to have a low mana cost spammable Q that does minimal damage, so she actually has to poke and is countered by strats that counter other poke champs.

Corrupt BlissJan 31, 20184 votes

Honestly, I feel like Zoe is your average burst mage. IMO Zoe is a bit more balanced. Katarina, Zed, Syndra, Talon, Rengar, etc, all deal insane amounts of damage. Syndra has a long range stun and point and click nuke. Zoe has all skill shots for her damage. Personally, I feel if you get hit by skill shots from a burst mage and die, you probably deserved it.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20187 votes

4 of those need to get real close and are shut down by CC. Those same 4 don't have any hard CC (except for empowered E on Rengar but then you lose your empowered Q burst).

Zoe has a form of hard CC that works even if she misses and amplifies damage.

StupaflyJan 31, 20182 votes

Alot of zoe's damage can be blocked by enemy's staying as a team and protecting sleeping targets. cant normally block your other burst champs.

They may not have (delayed) hard cc but thats replaced with things like mobility.

if you get on top on zoe she can EASILY be burst dead. Delayed cc and no escape wont protect her from death.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20182 votes

She sleeps you, or she uses stasis from zhonyas/hourglass and your team comes in for the cleanup.

Body blocking just means you take all the damage instead.

Corrupt BlissJan 31, 20181 votes

Idk about you, but when people body block my sleeping targets I deal substantially less damage, and it's typically blocked by the tank. Zoe just has a learning curve to play as and against for all people. Over time people will realize their bitch fest was unwarranted and go back to playing league of legends.

General Esdeath Jan 31, 20185 votes

I recall hearing the same thing with Azir on release

He's still problematic, as seen by Riot overnerfing him....again

NineTailedMysticJan 31, 20184 votes

The problem isn't that she bursts, it's that her burst pattern is obnoxious.

nm1010Jan 31, 201813 votes

You can learn a lot from this nerf, mainly that Riot apparently thinks the non stop bubble spam mid game is somehow healthy for the game...

LUXANNA HOSHIDOJan 31, 20187 votes

i see a lot of people complaining about her range as if other artillery mages with the same damage output don't exist

Ariel the CruelJan 31, 20189 votes

Other artillery mages don't 1-shot anybody unless egregiously fed.

Zone of EndlessJan 31, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzTmjUvw,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-01-31T02:16:31.300+0000)

Other artillery mages don't 1-shot anybody unless egregiously fed.

they also have more than 1 dmg abilities.

Zoe's only damage come from her Q and passive.

Maybe decrease Q dmg but buff the passive/bubble dmg so she has to get in close for more dmg/finishing blow?

Ariel the CruelJan 31, 20182 votes

Assuming full kit unload.

987.5 + 2.7 (1 passive proc, no W) - 14 bubble - 925 range (bubble cast + AoE)
1970 + 8.25AP (4 passive procs) - 50 ult CD (25 with refund) - 1175 range (Binding and slow cast + AoE)
2110 + 4.25AP (land all 5 of ult) - 100 ult CD - 1050 range (stun)
2045 + 5.1AP (all mines and 3 passive procs) - 90 ult CD - 900 range (Minefield)
3982 + 6.0AP (7 seconds un-enraged plant damage)) - 110 ult CD - ~850 range (Estimated ult cast + AoE)

Zoe's 2 skill combo (3 counting ult) does about half as much damage as a full unload from other artillery mages (Zyra is weird). And she does it: 1.78 times per lux unload (with refund) 3.57 times oer lux unload (without refund) 6.42 times per Ziggs unload. 7.14 times per Xerath unload. 7.85 times per Zyra ult.

This is where I have a problem with artillery mage comparison. She can unload faster and more often for significantly more DPS than an artillery mage can put out. She's on the low end of their range spectrum but leans significantly more towards burst mage.

Zone of EndlessJan 31, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzTmjUvw,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T03:50:38.421+0000)

Assuming full kit unload.

987.5 + 2.7 (1 passive proc, no W) - 14 bubble - 925 range (bubble cast + AoE)

1970 + 8.25AP (4 passive procs) - 50 ult CD (25 with refund) - 1175 range (Binding and slow cast + AoE)

2110 + 4.25AP (land all 5 of ult) - 100 ult CD - 1050 range (stun)

2045 + 5.1AP (all mines and 3 passive procs) - 90 ult CD - 900 range (Minefield)

3982 + 6.0AP (7 seconds un-enraged plant damage)) - 110 ult CD - ~850 range (Estimated ult cast + AoE)

Zoe's 2 skill combo (3 counting ult) does about half as much damage as a full unload from other artillery mages (Zyra is weird). And she does it: 1.78 times per lux unload (with refund) 3.57 times oer lux unload (without refund) 6.42 times per Ziggs unload. 7.14 times per Xerath unload. 7.85 times per Zyra ult.

This is where I have a problem with artillery mage comparison. She can unload faster and more often for significantly more DPS than an artillery mage can put out. She's on the low end of their range spectrum but leans significantly more towards burst mage.

She only has 1 consistent source of damage and that is on her Q which is why it does such big damage. If her Q does as much as, let's say Zigg's Q, then there would be really no reason to pick her. It's similar to how Jhin's attack hit hard because he's on an ammo system.

I think Riot should just scrap her as a long range mage and nerf her Q( or even change it completely) and buff her passive. Make her do risky play with R or W if she want that big damage for a kill. But then I guess she would play very similar to Ahri.

Jinx HunterJan 31, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzTmjUvw,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T04:18:02.898+0000)

She only has 1 consistent source of damage and that is on her Q which is why it does such big damage. If her Q does as much as, let's say Zigg's Q, then there would be really no reason to pick her. It's similar to how Jhin's attack hit hard because he's on an ammo system.

I think Riot should just scrap her as a long range mage and nerf her Q( or even change it completely) and buff her passive. Make her do risky play with R or W if she want that big damage for a kill. But then I guess she would play very similar to Ahri.

and Ahri is shit right now from being nerfed for being Ahri, so yah. That wouldn't solve anything.

The DeckownerJan 31, 20186 votes

Your numbers are incorrect and your assumptions are unrealistic.

Ariel the CruelJan 31, 20183 votes

I wasn't looking for realistic, I was looking at best possible scenario (Zoe and Zyra weakened). And the numbers were pulled from the wiki, so feel free to correct any errors.

My point is that Zoe doesn't reasonably match the out-put of other artillery mages, making the comparison questionable.

T4underboltJan 31, 20186 votes

I never seen any of those mages 100-0 me with their combo lvl 3. Zoe did. I never seen these mages deal significant DMG when being 0/7 with only 100 cs at 27 minutes. Zoe did.

Ariel the CruelJan 31, 20184 votes

That's kind of the point. Zoe isn't an artillery mage, as per Storm's claim. She doesn't reflect their output. Except Zyra (who gets pretty insane with plants), I calculated the most possible damage the artillery mages can do with a single rotation. Zoe was competitive with her 2 skills. Artillery mages also have a lot more consistency (AoE), and their unload was only close because I used their shortest ranged skills.

The Blue RajahJan 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I never seen any of those mages 100-0 me with their combo lvl 3. Zoe did. I never seen these mages deal significant DMG when being 0/7 with only 100 cs at 27 minutes. Zoe did.

She did not 100-0 you with one combo at level three. That is literally impossible. Stop exaggerating.

ChaddyFantomeJan 31, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzTmjUvw,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-01-31T02:16:31.300+0000)

Other artillery mages don't 1-shot anybody unless egregiously fed.

Neither does Zoe.