Please revert vayne tumble crit buff. it creates unhealthy playstyle.

MunchCrunchLunch·Sep 26, 2016·9 votes·2,270 views

no critting at 1.2k damage with two zeal items is not healthy. for a champion that does high max health perrcent damage. its fucking. disgusting. to see her. flash. QE. and kill our adc from 60% hp with just Q.

the playstyle of tumbling on whichever you can. and chunking over half their hp mid and late game. because there is nothing you can do about it. is pure bullshit.

why does a point and click ability deal 1200+ damage that has no counterplay?. 2 second cooldown. 1200 damage. veigars ultimate has 120 second fucking cd

here is a fact

math

vayne Q tumble do 425% OF AD RATIO as damage on crits with ie. let that. sink in. the 12% true damage. and that. let it sink in.

^ that is not an opinion . its a fact.

25 Comments

UberAffeSep 26, 20162 votes

They didn't add crit to it... it used to crit before the difference is that it used to have a separate crit, so the damage from the tumble could crit but the damage from your regular auto might not. The change made it so that if the auto is going to crit than the tumble will too so there is no more partial crits.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 26, 20161 votes

exactly. the auto damage used to crit. now the whole thing crit. thats what i mean thats how league works it makes sense to everyone what am saying here. they are also factoring in the base damage now. sort of. like gangplank Q.

GaleWinUnleashedSep 26, 20161 votes

They used to roll separately. That's all. Her average damage was not changed.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 26, 20161 votes

how is it not? now the base damage crits. shes basically getting an extra 1.75 ad on her Q crits at rank five

WHICH MEANS

that vayne tumble crits. do 425% of your total ad ratio as damage. if vayne has 300 ad. which she usually does. her tumble does. 1275 damage. that is pure math.

UberAffeSep 26, 20164 votes

The base used to be able to crit too, that isn't new. There used to be 4 possiblities when vayne tumbled

neither portion will crit
only the auto will crit
only the bonus damage from roll will crit
both will crit

no there are only two possibilites

neither will crit
both will crit

GaleWinUnleashedSep 26, 20162 votes

That math is fine. But you seem to be under the impression that the base damage was unable to crit before. Both the base damage and her regular attack damage could crit before, they simply rolled the crit chance separately. All that this change did was eliminate the two middle cases where only one part of the damage would crit. The maximum (both parts crit), minimum (neither crits), and average dps have not changed.

Sightless66Sep 26, 20162 votes

Actually, we have some good evidence that her average damage was changed. It was decreased at most crit values. The old interaction actually increased her average damage because it had a buggy way of determining how the ability would crit (and I mean even buggier than just applying the bonus damage crit and the base damage crit separately). This is the reddit thread that offers up an explanation as to why.

This is why her winrate went down by about 2.0 - 2.5% after the change (even though her playrate slightly decreased, and even though it was paired with a strict buff to her tower damage), and didn't go back up until she got buffs in a later patch.

XevestosSep 26, 20161 votes

I think they both could crit but the rng applied seperately for tumble dmg and aa dmg, like it rolles twice.

Somwone correct me if I'm wrong

VallalanSep 26, 20162 votes

eh its fine. but the weird thing about the buff is it is indeed a buff, but it didn't make her any better for higher elo play early on.

she still is able to get completely dumpstered in lane, and all it did was make her mid game even stronger and her late game insane.

that said they can't really fix vayne without changing her. as long as her kit is all about single target dps she will always be shit on in lane early on. and she will always scale into a monster later in the game.

Sightless66Sep 26, 20162 votes

You have a misunderstanding of two things about this. First, her Q could always crit. What used to happen was that the Q's bonus damage used to roll for crit separately from the crit on her AD. She could crit on neither, one, or both. What the change did was make it so that either the entire Q crit, or it didn't.

Second, we have good evidence that this bugfix was actually a nerf to Vayne. There was a buggy interaction determining how the ability applied damage based on the crit rolls, and it increased her dps at most crit values. Here is a reddit thread with an explanation. This explains why we saw her winrate decrease by 2.0 - 2.5% in 6.15 even though her playrate didn't increase and even though it was paired with a straight buff to tower pushing.

So, if we reverted this, we'd be buffing Vayne by reintroducing a buggy interaction. Is that what you want?

CIickTheLanternSep 26, 20161 votes

You realize conventional build vayne doesn't crit for over 1k until at least 4 ad/crit items right?

MunchCrunchLunchSep 26, 20161 votes

an adc that buys 4 attack speed items. should never fucking crit for anything over 600-800. the tumble buff made her crit for 1200. because of the stupid base damage it has. and it crits now.

vayne buys 4 attack speed items. botrk. 2 zeal items. greaves. and still crits for over 1k. because she gets 70 ad from her ult.

ridiculous. take away the true damage then. or take away the base damage that kills squishies faster than most other carries

CIickTheLanternSep 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

an adc that buys 4 attack speed items. should never fucking crit for anything over 600-800. the tumble buff made her crit for 1200. because of the stupid base damage it has. and it crits now.

vayne buys 4 attack speed items. botrk. 2 zeal items. greaves. and still crits for over 1k. because she gets 70 ad from her ult.

ridiculous. take away the true damage then. or take away the base damage that kills squishies faster than most other carries

Can her kit be percieved as overloaded? Sure. But there are many other champs (notably new ones) that IMO take much less skill, but are still as/more overloaded. She is still trash in lane, and if you can't close out a game that began with you beating vayne in lane, you dont deserve the win anyway.

awdafSep 26, 20161 votes

She is being rewarded for having to go much closer to the enemy to do damage than other ADCs, she has to go all in on a team fight, rather than comparing Jinx or Twitch that can sit in the back and AA away.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 26, 20161 votes

her reward is outplay potential (gated behind skill cap. makes sense). free ad from ult. 12% true damage on every 3rd auto.

do we need anything more here?.

awdafSep 26, 20161 votes

Lol, aside from Vayne mains that have accumulated mechanics with her, she's terrible. You are either really good with her, or you are really bad with her.

Wiz the GreatSep 26, 20161 votes

And twitch gets one of the highest damages with just 1 item, 3shots people while being superfar behind, 2.0+ attack speed, free ad from ult, one of the highest pick potentials in the game, highest auto range in the game, insane aoe dmg and true dmg which really adds up especially when hitting multiple targets. ???????

Maximum MordeSep 26, 20161 votes

Graves

Kitty ClarissaSep 26, 20161 votes

just play Draven and bully her in lane and later on 1 shot her mid game if your fed .

Sire HippingtonSep 26, 20161 votes

I honestly don't know why people go for two zeal items. With IE+ER+Shiv/RFC, she can tumble every ~1.3sec and crit for 1500+ Since the buff, going for ad+crit is just much more effective on her than AS unless you face a really tank-heavy team.

p.s. She never got a real buff to her crit, just a straight buff to her Q which gets increased from 0.2 more ratio to 0.5 with an IE crit.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 26, 20161 votes

because she gets 70 ad from her ult. vayne never fights without her ult. the cd isn't that long at all.

Sire HippingtonSep 26, 20161 votes

neother is the duration, many teamfights last longer than her ult. And again, why would i need that AS if Q+1AA kill most squishys from fullhealth? You did the math your self, 4.25ad ratio is pretty massive and it goes down to a 1.2sec cd with 40%cdr, which also gives alot mobillity and invisibillity+more ult uptime+more selfpeel from E. Additionally, Vayne has a massive AS/level, with just boots+1 zeal item, she already reaches ~1.5 as.

ValeckseraiSep 26, 20161 votes

Here's another fact, her winrate is below 50%.

http://champion.gg/champion/Vayne

So broken, plz nerf Rito.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 26, 20161 votes

zed had 47% winrate and still got nerfed because everyone complained. so did azir.

NoblewindSep 26, 20161 votes

The buff isn't as crazy as OP makes it sound IMO. Reasoning is the champ still does the same intended things as it always did, i.e. strong late game potential, close range, very squishy super high damage, needs skilled player to pull off.

The buff doesn't change these facts and make her OP or anything. Early game is still terrible. Even in low elo where her hard scaling can be taken advantage of, she's still middle of the pack