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@Meddler & @Reav3 - Why Shield Bomb is Better Than Mass Shielding

Winterkill··6 votes·727 views

There are many reasons why Karma's shield bomb is better for her than her current E+R. Mass shielding in itself is toxic in this game.

  1. Shield bomb allowed Karma to use the ability strategically and either cast the ability on herself or her teammate. There is nothing strategic about sitting in the backline and pressing E+R repeatedly. You are just spamming one ability that is negating damage on your entire team. With single target shielding and healing, the support has to pick who he or she is protecting. There is no gameplay or strategic choices being made when Karma is pressing one button constantly to protect her teammates. There is a difference between a Soraka mass heal that is on a massive cooldown and she has to pick and choose when she casts the ability. There is nothing special about mass spamming one ability that essentially is a life-saving ability like Soraka's healing. It's cancerous.

  2. Mass shielding is crowding out the active for Iron Locket Solari. People can sit here and say it is perfectly fine and the two abilities are distinctive. The fact of the matter is you are pressing one button that is shielding your entire team for a specific amount of damage. it's not original and it's nothing unique in the game. Shield bomb was unique on Karma and it fit her thematic more. The mass speed boost fits her thematic.

Why did you really remove the ability and essentially give it to Ivern? You did it because you didn't want to bother balancing it with her passive and it being too much free damage. There were ways to balance the ability but you choose to give her the most uninteresting, not interactive, ability ever . . . . that already exists on an active for an In-Game item.

15 Comments

Big Lincoln2 votes

wasn't it instant? memory is hazy on karma because who played her before she was good but IIRC she could drop shield bombs on you and you couldn't actually do anything about it other than just accept the fact you took damage

do something about that and i would agree that it'd be better than the generic locket clone we have right now

Winterkill1 votes

Yeah it was instant. Add in the fact that players could place it on minions made it even worse. The minion interaction, the fact that is proced on hit effects, and the passive . . . is probably the reason they removed it . . . if I remember. There were ways to rework it instead of completely removing the ability. They could have just had it only proc a specific amount for her passive, removed the ability to proc on hit effects. The interaction with minions was a very big hit . . . . . and it solved the problem of it being used as a "free damage" tool.

She would need to go in so close to an enemy to damage them with it . . . . and then use her other abilities. If anything, it would play up her battlemage properties VERY well. If she missed the opportunity to use her shield bomb and get damage off, well then she is screwed.

A little Peepo2 votes

Because karma hasn't been getting nerfed almost every patch recently right? Shield bomb damage was removed since karma would be even more of a lane bully than she already is, shield bomb was unique but it definitely wasn't healthy since there was no counter play what so ever to that. Now if you are ok with having shield bomb doing the damage it dealt after rework then cool because that damage was pitiful and extremely low, to the point where people didn't even use RE for damage.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

Because karma hasn't been getting nerfed almost every patch recently right? Shield bomb damage was removed since karma would be even more of a lane bully than she already is, shield bomb was unique but it definitely wasn't healthy since there was no counter play what so ever to that. Now if you are ok with having shield bomb doing the damage it dealt after rework then cool because that damage was pitiful and extremely low, to the point where people didn't even use RE for damage.

Personally as a support main, I really didn't think the whole shield bomb thing really fit her mantra E.

Karma's kit seems similar to Heimer's in the sense that you have 3 abilities, with have very different effects, and an ultimate that empowers one of your general abilities. So if her E was mainly used for a shield and speed boost, so putting a damage component on the ult version didn't really make sense. It just made the Ult E more generalistic, while out shining her other ultimate combos. (Everyone kept complaining about the change weakening her wave clear and damage, like her ultE was significantly better than ultQ. Sound weird to me.)

P.S. I'm ready for peoples downvotes.

IxtaliKing4 votes

Personally as a support main, I really didn't think the whole shield bomb thing really fit her mantra E.

It fit her Karmic theme and her Battlemage/Enchanter identity perfectly, something that her original players really liked about her.

Karma's kit seems similar to Heimer's in the sense that you have 3 abilities, with have very different effects, and an ultimate that empowers one of your general abilities.

We already have Heimer, so why would we need another mage whose ult just empowers their abilities? No unique spin just another straight up empower ult.

So if her E was mainly used for a shield and speed boost, so putting a damage component on the ult version didn't really make sense. It just made the Ult E more generalistic, while out shining her other ultimate combos.

That's what her basic E was for, her Mantra was about adding an offensive/defensive component to her basic abilities. With her rework her RQ just became a pure damage nuke, RW single target damage heal and RE remained her iconic damage shield. Could it have been executed better? Absolutely, but to say it didn't make sense isn't true.

Also RE having a damage component meant you had to think about how you used the ability to maximise it's potential, rather than just standing back and casting RE anyhow because it's so reliable.

I can see how her 5.10 changes would have made sense to someone who didn't know her, but really all they did was basically delete Karma from the game. They might as well change her name with her upcoming splash update and make it official, she's not a bad champion, she's just not Karma anymore.

IxtaliKing3 votes

The damage on her shield bomb after the rework was a bit low early, if it had some kind of delay or cast time it could have had a little more damage without being unfair. Also, her shield bomb was removed to increase her "contextual decision making" and buff her passive, which hasn't worked out since she has less decision making than before. Nothing to do with her being a lane bully though.

A little Peepo1 votes

{quoted}

The damage on her shield bomb after the rework was a bit low early, if it had some kind of delay or cast time it could have had a little more damage without being unfair. Also, her shield bomb was removed to increase her "contextual decision making" and buff her passive, which hasn't worked out since she has less decision making than before. Nothing to do with her being a lane bully though.

I never said her shield bomb was removed because she was a lane bully, it was obviously removed because of her passive buffs, a good placed shield bomb would refresh your mantra. Regardless if they did add the shield bomb with good damage they would have to nerf her passive again (many karma players already abuse passive buff that some even turret dive people and sit there for a long time without dieing thanks to the mantra refresh sustain) karma already is a huge lane bully hence her non stop nerfs, not saying she is OP but you are considering giving a champion who is thematically over packed even more just because Ivern has it.

Tldr: give her shield bomb then nerf her Q damage and her passive and probably everything else to keep her balanced. Doesn't sound like the greatest idea.

Winterkill1 votes

Originally she had a mass shield, mass speed up, and shield bomb when they reworked her. Karma could also proc it on minions so that made it even worse. When Riot removed the ability to shield minions it solved a lot of the problems. Really it is just laziness to not find a way to fix the ability. They made her auto attacks proc a specific amount for her passive. They could have done the same with shield bomb. Ivern has a slow on his shield bomb . . . . which is counter-productive of them to sit here and say they removed it from Karma because it applied on hit effects.

The fact of the matter is Riot wanted an Enchanter that mass shields players. They didn't care about her identity since the rework and they found every possible way to remove even more from her and make her the most uninteresting champion in the game. If they openly admitted that she was played more in mid and top lane before her rework, then why did Riot Games go out of their way to take a champion that was played more in other roles and make her nothing more than a shield bot? Because Riot Games doesn't care.

IxtaliKing2 votes

Shield bomb damage was removed since karma would be even more of a lane bully than she already is

^

I never said her shield bomb was removed because she was a lane bully,

Looked like you were drawing a correlation between the shieldbomb removal and her being a lane.

Regardless if they did add the shield bomb with good damage they would have to nerf her passive again (many karma players already abuse passive buff that some even turret dive people and sit there for a long time without dieing thanks to the mantra refresh sustain)

Tbh, I would rather Karma have a kit that is more focused, cohesive and thematic. The tank Karma situation you're talking about is definitely an abuse case and is something I don't think is particularly healthy.

not saying she is OP but you are considering giving a champion who is thematically over packed even more just because Ivern has it.

Lol no, not because Ivern has it... because it was her most iconic spell and the last remnant of her original kit. Riot claim to want to respect old champions, but here they are deleting Karma from the game. Not saying she's currently a bad champion, she's still my fav, but she's just not Karma anymore. Also, you say she's "thematically over packed", what themes is she packed with? Personally I can't see one.

Tldr: give her shield bomb then nerf her Q damage and her passive and probably everything else to keep her balanced. Doesn't sound like the greatest idea

Nobody said anything about nerfing Q, her Q/RQ dealt the same damage while the shieldbomb existed in her kit and she was balanced.

The Lost Marbles2 votes

Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this, but doesn't an AoE shield fit Karma's position as a spiritual leader who inspires and empowers her people?

Blowing people up with a shield-bomb seems to run against the theme. That seems more like a Noxian thing, and coincidentally Sion does just that.

Winterkill2 votes

Karma is a woman of indomitable will and unbound spiritual power. She is the soul of Ionia made manifest and an inspiring presence on the battlefield, shielding her allies and turning back her foes. A strong leader torn between tradition and revolution, Karma seeks to protect the peace of Ionia - by force if necessary.

Karma has one damage ability that falls off after level 6. Her tether roots and the Mantra heals her almost to full health.

I would say her Q and Q+R are living up to the fantasy. I would say her speedbost on shields is living up to the fantasy. There is nothing indomitable will, unbound spiritual power, the soul of Ionia made manifest and an inspiring presence on the battlefield about sitting in the back and repeatedly pressing one button to mass shield your team. Her old kit had damage and utility that she could use on allies on her abilities. An example would be heavenly weave that did damage as Q but when mantra would heal herself and allies in a cone. Riot took that away. She is not a leader, a battlemage, an inspiriting presence on the battlefield. Karma is only living up to half of her fantasy . . . . and I would say the current Q and Q+R doesn't even fit . . . . . the mass speed buff when shielding an ally does.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

Okay, fine, I'm a retard who needs to just never try to think ever again.

Everyone else is right, Karma sucks, screw Riot for ruining her, etc etc etc

Winterkill1 votes

You are not a retard for having an opinion. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. The problem is there are players that have been playing this game for so long that new players don't really care about their opinions anymore. They care about what Riot is doing now as opposed to what they have been breaking. Karma was changed too much and nothing on her was restored. You try having something you liked playing for four years, promised that her new iteration would be just as good as old Karma, get ignored for four years, continue to have a Development team take more away from her, receive zero to no communication and nothing more than excuses.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

Okay, I get it. I'm a know-nothing who needs to just shut up and let the grown-ups discuss things, and just never even try to contribute because I'll be wrong anyway.

No, I am retarded. Not for having an opinion, maybe, but for trying to join a discussion I'm not qualified to be in.

Winterkill1 votes

ok.

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