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Yasuo issues, according to a long time player who was there since his release, even long before

Kurt Hyzan··14 votes·5,012 views

Yasuo, supposedly being a "feast or famine" champion can nowadays simply come back into the game by getting item 3046. Why do you think so ? His kit has way too many "outplay tools" compared to your average champion. Take Annie, can she outplay someone by dashing everywhere ? No. If she's fed, she's a monster, if she's feeding, she's shit. Yasuo even if 0/8, once he gets item 3046 has the potential to 1v1 any fighter / mage in the game because of his overloaded kit.

Let's see : a shield that comes back each time he dashes, walks or use his ult, and the value is big enough to simply act like a item 3102 against damage (yes at all point in the game, his shield can just negate a damage spell).

Yasuo is supposed to be a late-game carry, he has been designed as a melee adc. BUT he's actually a lane bully shitting on most mages because of his mobility allowing him to dodge skillshots with no effort (just because it has a shiny animation and VFX, doesn't mean he does awesome playz by pressing E, even if I admit some players are godlike).

Your average Yasuo player didn't "outplay you" he just randomly dash and you can't predict it by throwing skillshots, literally has a spell saying "fuck you if you're ranged", and heck can even block ultimate. By blocking I don't mean blocking like Braum E, no literally deleting the projectiles, and it lasts long enough for him to hit you through it (yes because he can still AA you if you're melee through his wall, but you can't AA him if you're AA is a projectile, fair right ?)

He also has 2 freaking passive. Let's see, Brand also has 2 passive but they work together with his kit. Yasuo simply has a shield from level 1, and double crit chance, means he can reach 100% crit with 2 full items "bUt He dEalS 50% lEsS cRiT dAmAge". Still, a Yasuo with item 3031 item 3046 can deal 200+ damage per AA + Q.

Now let's see his ultimate. It can be triggered by ANY displacement, and by any, I mean even Anivia and Trundle wall can allow him to trigger it. Now let's see how overloaded it is :

  • his ultimate deals a decent amount of damage and can be triggered by him or his allies
  • his ultimate can affect multiple targets
  • his ultimate refresh his shield
  • his ultimate can stun enemies for 2sec in the air
  • his ultimate grants him 50% armor pene, he doesn't need to build armor pene
  • his ultimate puts him outside of turret range, for no reason at all. Just "because"

That's 6 EFFECTS on a single skill.

TL:DR : Yasuo doesn't belong in this game, he simply feels like a champion you'd play in a pve / hack'n slash game. And with such an overloaded kit, no ressources, near to no cooldown on his skills, he will always remain unfair, unfun and boring to face in any match up "meta" or not

23 Comments

Nyarlathοtep8 votes

BuT hIS WInRAtE iS LeSS THaN 50%

ZapMyHeart5 votes

{quoted}

BuT hIS WInRAtE iS LeSS THaN 50%

Or the usual "Get better at this game"/"Learn to counter him" or "CC him" or "Call your jungler to gank" or "Bait out his W" or "Don't be near your minions" or "Stay under tower to last hit" or "Pop his shield" or "2 v 1 him" or "Buy wards so he doesn't roam successfully".

So basically, I have to be Challenger-tier, playing a mid lane that has tons of non-projectile hard CC, forcing my jg to babysit my lane (instead of allowing them to remain relevant), pray that the Yasuo player in question is a brain-dead amoeba to use W (as chimps are rather intelligent), allow him to push toward my tower whilst making me sidestep better than Keanu in Matrix when he is throwing out his obnoxious, low CD, long range Q without any mana backlash, blacklist all my traitorous lane minions, have an AA long enough to trigger his shield and wait 1 second, while spending some of my precious gold towards a part of item to ward top and bot lane so they don't get throttled, while he can just buy his PD without doing much work to counter ME.

Netorare6 votes

His windwall should be fucking removed it's just bad

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

His windwall should be fucking removed it's just bad

what if they replaced it with something they were trying to do during development: it was a quick horizontal slash that i assume would act like a directional spell shield (that also blocks AA's)

10Tickler2 votes

Yasuo has been a longtime ban for me, just because his kit's generally unfun to play against. I have no issues when it comes to losing a lane or even a game, so long as I can feel like I was outplayed by Skill. Champions who need to hit skillshots to do damage (Velkoz), champions who rely on positioning and kiting (Vayne KogMaw), Champions who have to get a Certain set of combos off to unload their damage, and are left in a poor spot afterwards (Talon Diana Veigar ). All of these have outplay potential, just by being Better at the game's mechanics and having better knowledge of CD timers, builds, and general play mechanics.

Yasuo, Kayle, Zed, Leblanc, Akali Have no such potential. Be it insane scalings (1/2 items and they can just ignore your efforts to outplay), A kit that doesn't punish poor play decisions (Free escapes from terrible decisions), or just general Boosts and amplifications that make the champion so utterly forgiving that you don't feel bad going 0/4 in lane, because you're going to farm and get your powerspike, and end up unstoppable anyways. Between Mixed damage making counter-builds ineffective (Kayle/Akali), 2-item burst that feels unsatisfying to play against (Leblanc Zed Yasuo), and Hyper-mobility that allows the player to perform poorly on a mechanical level and still be rewarded (Yasuo Zed Leblanc Akali ), these 5 champions (And to a lesser extent, Fizz Katarina although both require a lot more skill and better timing to play now) are an ACTUAL issue that needs to be addressed.

Will Riot do so in a healthy way? That has yet to be seen, but given the way that LeBlanc was changed (Into something more healthy) then reverted again, I severely doubt it. Number nerfs can only go so far, before they just turn the champions into a peashooter, and Kit-changes requre a lot more time and effort to go into them. Yasuo's kit, returning to our core discussion, is toxic. It's bad. There are numerous ways to "Outplay", and when one of them is a Legitimate safety net that removes him from danger that he put himself into automatically? That's a good indicator of poor design and balancing.

Is yasuo fun to play as? I don't know. I don't really play him. I'm a support main.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo has been a longtime ban for me, just because his kit's generally unfun to play against. I have no issues when it comes to losing a lane or even a game, so long as I can feel like I was outplayed by Skill. Champions who need to hit skillshots to do damage (Velkoz), champions who rely on positioning and kiting (Vayne KogMaw), Champions who have to get a Certain set of combos off to unload their damage, and are left in a poor spot afterwards (Talon Diana Veigar ). All of these have outplay potential, just by being Better at the game's mechanics and having better knowledge of CD timers, builds, and general play mechanics.

Yasuo, Kayle, Zed, Leblanc, Akali Have no such potential.

If they Nerfed Zed's dmg so he HAD to hit every ability and skill shot during the ult to kill with the Mark's detonation after the delay i think he would be ok. But i think that if you force him to use his W defensively its on a long enough CD that it definitely hurts him. I think Zed is well designed his dmg just needs to be tweaked. But yeah...

Yas's kit breaks too many rules and forgives to easily, and Kayle, LeBlanc, and Akali are all messed up.

Luckily we shouldn't really have to talk about Kayle and Akali because they are getting reworked, and that should make them healthier.

LeBlanc on the other hand is REALLY close to working out, they just need to give her a proper delay to her burst as she is seen as THE mage assassin. And they came close to doing it, but they did it incorrectly, because unlike Kat and Fizz and Ekko, she got NO benefits for the delay and that didn't feel good, which is understandable even if it made her more balanced.

I think they should go back to her Assassin update kit with a few changes that allows her to play more into her deceive theme

Passive Sigil of Malice --> Deceive Sigil radius: 60 Effect Radius: 900 (Sigil command range) Once Sigil of Malice is primed her other abilities can affect it by clicking on it before casting. Marked champions are dealt 30 - 300 (based on level) (+ 80% AP) bonus magic damage if damaged by the Sigil. Q - LeBlanc channels for 0.5 sec revealing the Sigil causing it to explode in a 400 unit AoE. Canceling the channel will reveal the Sigil and refund the mana. W - LeBlanc turns causes a stationary Mimic to dash to the sigil for 4 sec E - LeBlanc casts Ethereal Chains from the Sigil's location

Q Shatter Orb --> Sigil of Malice ACTIVE: LeBlanc projects an orb in the target direction, dealing magic damage to the first enemy champion it collides with and marking them for 3.5 seconds. Otherwise it creates an invisible Sigil at max range after a 1.5 sec charge for 10 sec.

The unit mark will be consumed once LeBlanc damages the marked target with any other ability, dealing dealing Sigil of Malice's damage again.

W New! "who's who?" Visual: LeBlanc always leaves a mimic at the initial cast location New! Nothing is free: Recasts cost 50% the 1st cast mana

this way they are encouraged to be creative for waiting, and its not just like, aw man now I gotta wait, and thier dmg on a target isn't completely negated by having to wait, its just that they will get MORE dmg by being creative with misdirection and since misdirection takes patience and time, the delay on the Sigil's activation is totally natural as it gives them time to set up their prey. Additionally this passive has the benefit of not just TELLING the enemy to basically just disengage until the mark wears off which was probably the worst offender for why the Assassin rework passive felt so bad for Leblanc Players

Sure they All need work for their dmg balance, but i feel that Zed and LeBlanc with a bit of work CAN be balanced.

Yas, Kayle, and Akali are all in need of extensive reworks, and in Yas's case its just pulling a lot of unnecessary power out of his kit and putting more skill into it.

For example his W could be replaced with an ability that Riot actually WANTED to give him instead but just didn't have the necessary tech for it at the time: a quick horizontal slash, that I assume would have worked like a directional spell shield (now its up to yall whether that expends current Flow or not)

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

Is yasuo fun to play as? I don't know. I don't really play him. I'm a support main.

also his W as it is really belongs on a support champ, i say take it off him and give it 2 the next supp, such a strong dmg denying ability makes more since on a champ that doesn't deal much dmg themselves.

5050BS2 votes

They need to rework his Passive, his Q tornado, his W WW, his E perma lane chase and his Auto Scripted Crutch Ult

He is the poster boy of a Nice Concept BAD designed champ.

Giga Baboon1 votes

riot isn't listening

they can't even bother to balance irelia zoe or camile, you think they have the ability to work on yauso, please understand, meddler only gets paid the big bucks to take 2 ad off vayne

TheCodeisCupCake2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Giga Baboon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BdpH3FVd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-17T14:15:25.485+0000)

riot isn't listening

they can't even bother to balance irelia zoe or camile, you think they have the ability to work on yauso, please understand, meddler only gets paid the big bucks to take 2 ad off vayne

rEdUcE zOe Q cD bY 0**.2**5.

'Fixed'

Daddy Ants1 votes

I'm not a Yasuo player, I hate the champion as much as anyone else but I wonder about something...

"For the next 15 seconds, Yasuo's critical strikes gain 50% bonus armor penetration."

Does that mean

  • His Critical Strikes ignore 50% of a targets BONUS armor.

Bonus armor is considered as armor acquired from Items.

or does it mean

  • He gets 50% more armor penetration. If he has a item 3036 for example it would be 35 x 1.5 so he'd have 52.5% armor penetration on his critical strikes for 15 seconds.

[{quoted}](name=Giga Baboon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BdpH3FVd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-17T14:15:25.485+0000)

riot isn't listening

they can't even bother to balance irelia zoe or camile, you think they have the ability to work on yauso, please understand, meddler only gets paid the big bucks to take 2 ad off vayne

Vayne isn't a problem though.

Zoe, Camille and Irelia are.

Bad comparison.

Ifneth1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not a Yasuo player, I hate the champion as much as anyone else but I wonder about something...

"For the next 15 seconds, Yasuo's critical strikes gain 50% bonus armor penetration."

Does that mean

  • His Critical Strikes ignore 50% of a targets BONUS armor.

Bonus armor is considered as armor acquired from Items.

or does it mean

  • He gets 50% more armor penetration. If he has a item 3036 for example it would be 35 x 1.5 so he'd have 52.5% armor penetration on his critical strikes for 15 seconds.

Vayne isn't a problem though.

Zoe, Camille and Irelia are.

Bad comparison.

I asked someone that question, once. They answered that Armor Penetration penetrates Armor. Bonus Armor Penetration penetrates Bonus Armor.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not a Yasuo player, I hate the champion as much as anyone else but I wonder about something...

"For the next 15 seconds, Yasuo's critical strikes gain 50% bonus armor penetration."

Does that mean

  • His Critical Strikes ignore 50% of a targets BONUS armor.

Bonus armor is considered as armor acquired from Items.

or does it mean

  • He gets 50% more armor penetration. If he has a item 3036 for example it would be 35 x 1.5 so he'd have 52.5% armor penetration on his critical strikes for 15 seconds.

Vayne isn't a problem though.

Zoe, Camille and Irelia are.

Bad comparison.

Zoe's kit breaks too many rules for one champion, and Camille and Irelia could use some hits to either their base Hp/armor or HP/armor growth as they feel a bit 2 tanky when taking into account the CC they provide.

Vayne is another matter, because she is allowed to fight squishies with an assassin like playstyle but has a passive that allows her to take out tanks just as easily, this makes her a problem.

Malak1 votes

My issue with yasou is that you can't outplay his ult with zhonyas

besides, of course, his usual gay shit of being immune to skill shots

Power Cosmic1 votes

Outplay + being able to hard carry is killing this game. Outplaying takes away vulnerability, which is fundamental to teamwork. Without it, a good player often will make teams not matter. What does a non-outplay kit get to compensate for lack of ability to outplay? Right now, nothing. That needs to change. Before safety carried which was also bad. Team oriented games where most champ types are valuable is the key to reignite growth. That also means longer games.

Nerfing Yas's early E is loooooong overdue. And he is fun enough where he would still be played and worth helping to get fed and carrying

Noor Sakata1 votes

He is hot tho :p

MorganFreemanBot1 votes

As someone who's also been playing since long before Yasuo was released (S2 specifically):

No.

First and foremost, Yasuo is not designed as a late game character and a hyper carry. He's not designed as a late game champ because his weak base stats and lack of tankiness / some kind of invulnerability means he cannot reasonably function in that respect, baring absolutely perfect scenarios (Malphite ulti on all the carries which he can R into). He's not a hyper carry because Yasuo only brings two steroids, one of which caps out extraordinarily quickly (his passive).

To be specific, Yasuo's strongest stage is the mid game around when he hits his 100% crit. This is when his squishiness is more negligible because actual hard-carries haven't gotten off the ground and he's more likely to get into smaller fights where he won't be deleted; he also scales MUCH slower from this point on, falling behind surprisingly quickly.

Beyond that, oh boy. The usual garbage complaints we always get.

Yasuo's defensive measures are heavily gated or contextual.

Wind Wall has a substantial cooldown and a short duration. Like it or not, Yasuo throwing out wall to intercept a point-blank ultimate just as it comes out.. is skill and reflex. Or else extreme luck. You're supposed to bait out his wall or force him away from it, then kill him.

His shield can be easily popped by autos, takes awhile to charge, and lasts barely over a second. It's not a problem.

Like several other champs (Renekton, prerework swain), Yasuo benefits from fighting in minions. Don't stand in your wave, it strips him of a lot of power.

Put succinctly, Yasuo is a design triumph. He has powerful - but perfectly clear - moments of defensive and offensive power. Everything he does is an active and impactful decision, and he can throw himself under the buss quite easily. His frustration aspects stem from players, bizarrely, hating visual feedback on defensive measures rather than invisible mitigation. Well, that and just plain being shitters who don't want to improve at all.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

As someone who's also been playing since long before Yasuo was released (S2 specifically):

No.

First and foremost, Yasuo is not designed as a late game character and a hyper carry. He's not designed as a late game champ because his weak base stats and lack of tankiness / some kind of invulnerability means he cannot reasonably function in that respect, baring absolutely perfect scenarios (Malphite ulti on all the carries which he can R into). He's not a hyper carry because Yasuo only brings two steroids, one of which caps out extraordinarily quickly (his passive).

To be specific, Yasuo's strongest stage is the mid game around when he hits his 100% crit. This is when his squishiness is more negligible because actual hard-carries haven't gotten off the ground and he's more likely to get into smaller fights where he won't be deleted; he also scales MUCH slower from this point on, falling behind surprisingly quickly.

I see ur point but thats not the issue we have with Yas, its the extra effects he gets that he would be more balanced without

Beyond that, oh boy. The usual garbage complaints we always get.

Yasuo's defensive measures are heavily gated or contextual.

Wind Wall has a substantial cooldown and a short duration. Like it or not, Yasuo throwing out wall to intercept a point-blank ultimate just as it comes out.. is skill and reflex. Or else extreme luck. You're supposed to bait out his wall or force him away from it, then kill him.

If ALL it did was intercept a point-blank ultimate, we wouldn't have an issue with it. We have an issue with its duration. 3.75 sec is too long for an ability that allows him to complete avoid dmg for. Most of the Skirmisher's thats the longest defensive ability by a long shot. The next longest duration ability that can be used defensively is Kayn at 2.5 sec, but he's effectively in Statis except for reactivation of R and the enemy he's locked to can put him in a bad spot if he uses it at the wrong time/place. If it were of a shorter duration like a quick horizontal slash that negated what ever it touched it would feel more like a skill/reflex. But he can just sit behind it afterwards so there isn't even much of a punishment for using it at the wrong time because he still gets the benefit of being immune to ranged attacks for the duration.

His shield can be easily popped by autos, takes awhile to charge, and lasts barely over a second. It's not a problem.

again we aren't upset about the shield, its more of what he has ON TOP of the shield, u are simplifying our grievances too much. We wouldn't have an issue if ALL he had was the shield, but he also has the Windwall, which gives him two chances to avoid dmg. On the other hand if other Skirmisher champions have shield its not a passive that activates when they slip up and get caught by a skillshot or AA that they meant to dodge. They have to actively cast the shield at the right time to avoid the dmg and then after they cast it whether it blocked dmg or not its gone. For Yasuo once his shield is charged its always there and it doesn't go away until you attack it. Also did anyone mention that the shield instantly charges by casting R? well not only is Yasuo breaking the rules that other Skirmishers follow but he also breaks the own rules set up by his kit, and again it acts as another hand holding measure. I thought Yasuo was a Skirmisher not a Diver. R shouldn't instantly charge the shield, it should charge it for what ever distance traveled. I would call it skill if a Yasuo player was slowly building up his shield by walking and casting E on minions and ulted to get the last bit of charge for a fight.

Like several other champs (Renekton, prerework swain), Yasuo benefits from fighting in minions. Don't stand in your wave, it strips him of a lot of power.

This honestly is true, its just that again, on top of everything else Yas has its a tipping point.

Put succinctly, Yasuo is a design triumph. He has powerful - but perfectly clear - moments of defensive and offensive power. Everything he does is an active and impactful decision, and he can throw himself under the buss quite easily. His frustration aspects stem from players, bizarrely, hating visual feedback on defensive measures rather than invisible mitigation. Well, that and just plain being shitters who don't want to improve at all.

No if yasuo's kit was designed without all the hand holding in his kit and it followed the rules that other skirmisher's kits follow it would be a design of triumph. And he wont be throwing himself under the bus quite easily if R grants full shield charge and places him outside of tower range. We dont hate visual feed back on defensive measures, we hate defensive measures that either don't rely on skill (passive shield) or last for a very long time (passive shield until popped, and W duration), and the fact that he has 2 abilities that completely negate dmg when he's not a tank or a support and can actually deal a great deal of dmg himself.

TheCodeisCupCake1 votes

I was wondering where all the Yasuo hate threads went. Missed them I must say

Troll for Trump1 votes

It's just the issue of high skillcap champions versus lower skillcap champions. How much should players be rewarded just for playing a mechanically intense character. This isn't exclusive to Yas.

OatheSworn1 votes

To be honest I think Yasuo is pretty weak at the moment.. item changes hit him really hard, especially I.E. It's so incredibly difficult to actually "build into" because the item parts are just both 1300 gold solid.

Hyquiem1 votes

Yasuo? Atleast I can beat him somewhere in part of the game unlike ugly little child Zoe

5050BS1 votes

The Dev who made these two needs to NEVER be the lead designer of ANY champ

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