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Venting : playing a poke / skillshot mage is fucking frustrating with everyone having mobility

Kurt Hyzan··84 votes·18,989 views

Yes, you aren't a fucking god for """"""""""""""""out-playing me as Lucian and spamming "omg im so good"'''' in all chat when I'm fucking playing Ziggs

No, you aren't a fucking god for dodging Anivia 's Q with Zed

No you aren't a fucking god for dodging Cassiopeia 's Q with Ekko

Please stop giving mad playz mechanics to new champions. It's only forgiving them for missplacement, while punishing others for having such a skillshot oriented kit

116 Comments

TheWizardM56 votes

I absolutely agree, but I am also pretty sure Riot's never going to change this.

NorthernRedStar22 votes

What's even more ridiculous, is that in season 8, all these mobile guys can dodge your skillshots with anything between 1-3 dashes, on top of out-damaging a full 3-4 spell (aimed) combo from you with the press of a few buttons.

It's very comparable to some champions having 'I WIN' -button, which others lack. These others are then largely excluded from the whole season 8 meta because the risk-reward ratio simple cannot stand the out-of-control damage values runes bring to these low-risk champions.

Exin08 votes

{quoted}

What's even more ridiculous, is that in season 8, all these mobile guys can dodge your skillshots with anything between 1-3 dashes, on top of out-damaging a full 3-4 spell (aimed) combo from you with the press of a few buttons.

It's very comparable to some champions having 'I WIN' -button, which others lack. These others are then largely excluded from the whole season 8 meta because the risk-reward ratio simple cannot stand the out-of-control damage values runes bring to these low-risk champions.

and big portion od problem is electrocute which half of rooster is using and another half trying to use so we have electrocute on garen, veigar, mf, maokai heck i see it even on soraka and sona. rune is too powerful and needs to go with all dmg runes.

NorthernRedStar3 votes

{quoted}

and big portion od problem is electrocute which half of rooster is using and another half trying to use so we have electrocute on garen, veigar, mf, maokai heck i see it even on soraka and sona. rune is too powerful and needs to go with all dmg runes.

I agree, the damage portion of it needs to be nerfed early-mid game.

Nyarlathοtep19 votes

Riot do what? Are you crazy? Riot is busy reworking ryze.

TheCodeisCupCake6 votes

is this a 'Ryze'Viktor

3TWarrior11 votes

is any champion truly a ryze now?

though the rework that I liked the least was Cassiopeia ...she was way better as a dps poison mage instead of a BREAK E KEY mage

Yraco1 votes

Well you do more damage if you poison them then break e so practically the same thing.

3TWarrior2 votes

nnn, not so much. I preferred landing an ability with a medium cooldown that did a lot of damage over time instead of hitting a short cooldown ability that does very little damage but preps her E to do a lot of damage

the difference being, it mattered a lot more when you could hit the champ or champs with your abilities and watch them pay the consequences as compared to hitting one and then using a targeted spam

OatheSworn3 votes

{quoted}

Riot do what? Are you crazy? Riot is busy reworking ryze.

No, they are fixing up Mordekaiser. Apparently one was spotted riding the Herald, commanding the Elder Drake, all the while running down mid with Baron Nashor in tow. Funny that guy.

abca9818 votes

I used to mainLux I don't play her anymore. Not worth the effort.

AirKingNeo9 votes

probably because Lux's skillshots are so slow you don't need a dash to dodge them....

Besteal3 votes

Unfortunately, this is true.

Bob the Toastr4 votes

I will totally agree with you on her Q. It's really way too slow and you basically can't hit anyone unless they're slowed, dumb, or at point blank range. However, her E needs to be that slow because it takes up like half the lane and has a very long range. People shouldn't be forced to take damage just because the stepped within 1000 range of her.

AmenPerson11 votes

I'm in agreement with this completely. It's quite annoying playing someone with very telegraphed skillshots like Karthus or Chogath and having someone stepped slightly to the side faster then you expected because of a dash or MS boost, spam taunt you, and act like they're a diamond+ player. Congratulations, you dodged a Cho'Gath Q.

Beacon Academy8 votes

Skill shot/ranged ability champs are there to counter short-ranged/target type champs (Xerath vs Annie)

Just like how mobility counters skill shots (Katarina vs Veigar)

And target types counter mobility (old/maybe current? Malzahar vs Leblanc) (Not too sure if Malzahar currently actually counters lb tbh, old Malz used to because he had the damage and ult held her in place through invis passive)

But yes I am tired of all the new champions getting dashes/blinks/etc. while at the same time advocating for the removal of target abilities because they're near undodgable (which is the point)

Durfain8 votes

It's even translating through to pro play. It's why mages with reliable damage like Ryze and Cassiopeia are becoming so popular. Mobility devalues skillshots.

Handin Out Naps5 votes

Alright so imagine if you held your cc till after they use their mobility.

Besteal21 votes

Well they wouldn't use it. They'd just walk up to you and bash your face in because there are so many items that give MS. And then when you try to punish them for that they use their mobility.

Handin Out Naps3 votes

Name one assassin that engages on you without their mobility spell lol. You have to be seriously out of position to die to an assassin that didnt use their mobility.

Yets424019 votes

Well, Fizz, Zed, Talon, etc have multiple mobility tools and/or gapclosers and often build items like Ghostblade that give them an additional mobility tool, or they have summoner spells, most notably flash to engage with.

Even if you wait for them to use one to engage on you, they often have another ready to dodge whatever you'd try to hit them with, e.g. Fizz can Q, protobelt, or just walk up after R, but then has E, flash, and Q if he didn't use it, to then dodge skillshots with. Zed can W -> E then teleport to the shadow and start an all in like so, but then still has flash and the I-frame of his R to dodge your response.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Ok fine if we are talking about summoner spells now you also have flash and exh/barrier/heal to help you so lets not pretend you have to stand there and take it. I agree with Fizz I'm not really trying to defend that champ. But if Zed is engaging like that you are already in kill range and should be respecting him. This all really just depends on the point in the game, who you are playing and how fed the assassin is though. And we both know talon can't dodge anything during an all in, so you should stick with the only 2 champs that can.

Yraco11 votes

Just going to say if the zed is good enough or fed enough an adc is practically always in kill range, heal is almost irrelevant because Zed takes ignite.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Well then you might wanna avoid feeding him to that point.

HeeroTX1 votes

Yraco said "an adc..." If you're an adc, you're RARELY the one who fed a Zed.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Idk a lot of other low elo players like to use the arguement that Zed goes bot to get fed. At least on the boards they do.

HeeroTX1 votes

If Zed is pounding bot lane, then its at least 3v2 if not 4v2, he should NOT be able to get fed enough in that manner to not be behind your allied mid if he's trying to camp bot that much. He's not "bad" but Zed ain't some kind of waveclear beast that he SHOULD be able to keep mid constantly pushed for constant roams. (unless mid is playing some completely ass pick)

ie. If Zed gets "fed" on bot, then the allied mid should already also be fed/strong or they suck balls and it doesn't matter if bot hadn't "fed" him since apparently he can go even with mid despite only being in lane half the time or less. And I say that because I main adc and have gotten used to avoiding the constant mid ganks (ie. not feeding) and yet STILL seeing my mid losing badly.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Yeah I agree, I'm just calling out the people that use it as an excuse.

HeeroTX1 votes

If I'm down 3 or more deaths DURING lane phase (0/3, 1/4, etc) then you have every right to call me out no matter who got the kills, UNLESS it happens because your lane got super fed before coming to help push me back. (my one exception to the rule is if their jg is camping me and ours is just constantly farming, unless he's gonna carry and assumes at the start that I ain't gonna do anything, EVER) [poppy-wink]

Ipressbutton5 votes

LC$ big plays

Glory975 votes

To be honest I disagree. I main midlane and I have a lot of fun playing poke/skillshot mages. Sure there are some champions who struggle a lot ( Lux Ziggs Velkoz ) against the mobile champions But most mages are fine. Here are some tricks to hit more skillshots:

  1. Use your skillshots when they go for last hits. You can easily land your cassio q onto ekko during his aa-animation when last hitting a minion. 90% of the time the ekko will last hit, and not be able to use his e to dodge. If he cancels his aa to dodge, he can't get cs, allowing you to get cs advantages.
  2. Most dashes have quite long cd in early game. Most skillshots of mages have shorte cooldown, and you can use the time when their dash is on cd to your advantage.
  3. Play arround the enemies vision. It's ten times harder to dodge when the skillshots comes from fog of war. In teamfight use this to your advantage. Position yourself in bushes/behind terrain to make it harder to dodge your skills.
  4. take their possible ways to escape into consideration. Sometimes it's worth trying to predict to where the'll dodge.

I even think that that a lot of mages have so reliable skillshots that it's already unfair for immobile champions, because of hard it is for them to dodge. For example Ahri Cassiopeia Anivia Azir Syndra Zoe Xerath {{champion:65}} Swain

Stars Shaper1 votes

Xerath skillshots are all delayed, one needs to charge up, the other doesn't do any damage if not inside its bullseye, his stun is a projectile that stops on the first minion/summon hit and has no duration at close range and his ultimate spawns an enlarging red ring of death telling you exactly where to be in order to be safe and unless he lands 3+ shots you are not going to die (unless you were under 50% hp as a squishy).

Glory973 votes

But Xerath q and w, combined with his passive allow him hard shove every wave at a quite efficient mana cost. And when you opponent cs under turret you use the afore mentioned trick 1 to land your skillshots. Personally I think xerath is quite strong at the moment.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Congratulations! Now the enemy can freely freeze while zoning you out from minions! And btw that trick doesnt work half of the times because canceling your aa is faster than the whole animation on his q.

iDarkWind3 votes

Freeze on mid lane against a Xerath? What the actual f xD The things I am reading in this thread blows my mind.

Guess you can do that, if you already killed Xerath 3 times and he doesn't have flash up LOL

Nyarlathοtep

Oh care to explain me oh high tier diamond why you cant freeze against xerath? Because apparently im missing something.

iDarkWind2 votes

Quite simple, he has long range abilities and can clear your minions without any trouble. Even if he doesn't last hit them, he can still fvck up your freeze and either force to let the enemie minions go under your tower (wich completly destroys the freeze) or you'll have to tank minion agro plus Xerath's poke in order to maintain it, wich obviously isn't worth and would lead to your death.

Freeze mechanic on mid lane is kinda hard to pull off, except in situations that you're destroying your lane opponent or in meele vs meele matchups, and even in this ones, still is hard to pull off. Freezing works perfectly fine in Top lane because it is a much longer lane and usually are meele vs meele matchups.

Thilmer5 votes

Champions with low mobility used to have massive burst damage to compensate for it.

Now that every new champion and his mother has stupid mobility AND sustained damage AND burst damage, traditional mages are just subpar.

Chalze4 votes

Imma just say this: Whatever anyone can complain about, you can usually trace it back to Riot making massive amounts of money off LCS/pro scene.

In this case, less mobile champions tend to be less exciting to watch in any game, whether that be in the pro scene or not, but the more mobility the more exciting their gameplay tends to be. So for many cases including this, Riot's trying to appeal to a literal audience rather than the actual players.

Zullar2 votes

Also do you feel largely invalidated as a poke champ if they pick up 1 ocean dragon? That's the real problem with poke IMO.

five oh tree 2 votes

cass literally has a massive AoE grounding tool and you're complaining about someone outplaying you with mobility?

?????

??????????????????????

You know what's really frustrating? playing someone with mobility and watching a GOOD ziggs cs and poke perfectly from 1000 Units away and never having chance to interact with him. . . because all of his power budget is in long range spells and none is in mobility, so he utilizes his champion's strengths and doesn't cry about the weaknesses.

Crazy concept eh?

Nyarlathοtep8 votes

If someone that has mobility is getting poked down by a ziggs then he needs to git very gud. Ziggs poke is nigh impossible to hit unless the target is hugging his minions OR ziggs must be constantly using his minefield or w.

Noor Sakata2 votes

While I do agree but , you mentioned the meta mages , Cassiopeia Anivia , you didn't mention the normal mages that heavily depend on skillshots such as Lux Ahri

5050BS2 votes

For some reason Riot feels that SOME champs have to have huge delays or STUPIDLY Slow Skill shots. But then Others *Leblanc Yasuo Anivia Cassiopeia Brand * Dont

XxDRAGONsAK47xX2 votes

you know what's sad?

I only win against people as Anivia because I let them use all their abilities. early game I have to let Fizz, Ekko, and Zed (and all those champs) use all their abilities so I have a chance to trade by landing a Q. If I try to initiate they will dodge and just all in me. I'll die.

I'm not allowed to have fun with the champion I found to be the most fun.

iDarkWind3 votes

You're a ranged Control Mage with a CC Spell that's kinda slow, fine, but you can use it as a defensive tool, and even as offensive if they burn their dash's or you use your Wall to zone them. Plus your passive prevents tower dives and is very useful in many situations. Your lv6 is clearly beyond stupid because you can R the wave and talk away, and the assassin can't do anything, and if he decides to roam, you push the wave and deny him EXP and Gold.

But of course, this never happens in your ranked games, I must be playing some kind of different game.

XxDRAGONsAK47xX3 votes

You must never play Anivia LMAO.

With a tear and catalyst you can r 3-4 minions waves before you're OOM. And my passive doesn't prevent tower dives, my egg means nothing low level for 2v1s under tower. Especially in this damage meta.

Modl Ryden l2 votes

I can only imagine how rage-y you must get when someone plainly sidesteps your skill shots.

Ratpie4 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=elVW7nlX,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2018-06-06T16:25:13.835+0000)

I can only imagine how rage-y you must get when someone plainly sidesteps your skill shots.

I think that is the point. That all of those skill shots can already be sidestepped. The 1 click mobility skill is just an easy out for putting yourself in a bad position in the first place. It is far more forgiving than casting skill shots. When a mage casts a skill shot, majority of the time it is in the hands of the champ being shot at whether they are hit or not. You should be dodging most of them already. It is not 'outplaying', it is you being really bad if you get hit by them. Most of them are telegraphed so heavily. You don't see mages shouting 'outplayed' every time they land a skill shot.

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