Proposed Staccato Buff

Pika310·Aug 8, 2014·4 votes·1,041 views

As everyone should know, the recent changes to Sona's kit included a damage nerf to Staccato of 25%. Many players feel it was unjustified and that no trade-offs were given in exchange. Having said that, Power Chord takes on a counter-weight role that focuses on debuffing enemies in contrast to her normal abilities which buff allies. To stay on-track with this theme and to compensate what's lost, another player came up with this idea and I'm translating it into a solidified form:

Resonance: Hitting an enemy with Staccato applies a mark to the target for 3.5 seconds. When an allied champion other than Sona deals damage to the marked target with an attack or ability, the mark detonates dealing 65% of Power Chord's damage +10% of Sona's AP as magic damage. This damage counts as that player's and applies their magic penetration.

This is a proposed addition to Staccato, not to replace the bonus 50% damage it still does.

12 Comments

PushoverAug 8, 20142 votes

So you want her Q auto with an ADC auto followup to deal Q damage + 215% Power Chord + 0.1 AP + both procs of empowered Q auto? Sona doesn't need an autowin trade with 2 autoattacks button.

Pika310Aug 8, 20142 votes

The total damage is actually only about the same as her old level 1 trade. I can calculate the numbers if you want, it's probably only 1 or 2 points more at most.

This proposed change does not retain any of her old individual damage, it just makes up for it with team damage. In total, her Staccato would only do 7.5% more with these numbers, provided your teammates follow-up. In other words, it rewards team interaction. Last I checked part of the rework was to reward teamwork.

PushoverAug 8, 20141 votes

Level 1, Sona has 50 AD. gets 13 + 0.2 AP bonus damage from Power Chord.

Old Sona Q dealt 50 + 0.5 AP magic damage, and provided 4 AP and AD. So Q is 52 + 0.5 AP and the Power Chord is 2 x (54.8 + 13 + 0.2 x AP). The ADC's auto gets +4 AD as well. In total, old Sona provides 52 + 4 + 109.6 + 26 + 0.9 AP = 191.6 + 0.9 AP mixed damage.

New Sona Q deals 40 + 0.5 AP magic damage and provides a magic damage buff of 40 + 0.25 to herself and her ADC. So Q is 40 + 0.5 AP + (40 + 0.25 AP) x 2, or 120 + 1.0 AP. The power chord is 1.5 x (50 + 13 + 0.2 AP), or 94.5 + 0.3 AP damage. In total, new Sona provides 120 + 94.5 + 1.3 AP damage, or 214.5 + 1.3 AP mixed damage.

You want to add a further 13 * 0.65 + 0.1 AP, or an extra ~8.5 + 0.1 AP.

While I misread it initially, more damage isn't what Sona needs. She already rewards team interaction enough, providing more than old Sona for a short level 1 trade.

EDIT: LoLWiki is bad and has its numbers off, should be 20 + 0.25 AP, for a total of 40 less damage. So her output is 174.5 + 1.3 AP. So it is a little lower early, the mark brings up the damage a little bit. Is it better than simply adding more damage to her passive, though? 5 more damage on her passive brings the burst up to 184.5 with a higher AP ratio, and keeps the ability relatively simple.

Pika310Aug 8, 20143 votes

So to summarize, the numbers you've provided favor Sona's old level 1 trade by ~17 base damage, with a margin of error of 0.4 AP. To balance out that deficit requires a start of 43 AP, for further clarity. If you were to start the game with Spellthief's Edge, that requires 38 AP from runes and masteries. A 9-0-21 mastery page will give almost 7 AP, leaving the last 31 for runes. With both AP blues and Quints, that reaches 26 AP from runes. With a remaining deficit of 5 AP, you would need to: sacrifice your penetration/armor reds or HP/armor yellows to dip into secondary runes; or sacrifice your gold gen. start and a potion to take a Doran's Ring start. Sacrificing primary pen. for secondary AP equates to less damage in the long-run and sacrificing yellows makes the already squishy Sona even squishier. Starting Doran's Ring will lose out on a lot of early-game bonus gold and more time required to complete your gold-gen item later.

Setting all of that aside, I'm not saying the proposed change is a better or worse idea than simply undoing the nerf to Staccato. It's just an alternate solution, which would allow for slightly higher numbers due to team-reliance and coordination. Sona has already taken a giant leap away from simplicity with the new kit. It's clear at this point, that there's no fear of forcing her teammates to have as much in-depth understanding of her abilities as the Sona player herself.

SunfieldAug 8, 20142 votes

Sonas damage on Q was lowered because she got an aditional aa empower outside of her passive.

If anything, Id rather give her more aa range to make her safer. This buff would make her stronger. Changes you proposed would make her auto win most of level 1 trades if not all of them

Pika310Aug 8, 20142 votes

If you had bothered to actually read the rest of this thread, numbers have already been provided showing that these proposed changes would only make up for half of the total base damage Sona has lost in her level 1 trade. The remaining deficit is made up for by having at least ~25 starting AP, thanks to additional scalings. On top of this, you have complete reliance on your ADC to follow-up. Elsewise, her damage doesn't even come anywhere close to what it used to be.

SunfieldAug 9, 20142 votes

If you use Q and follow with empowered aa along with your adc, the damage is more than enough.

You should stop comparing old numbers with new and focus on practical use.

Pika310Aug 9, 20142 votes

So in your opinion, there's nothing wrong with her being weaker than before, having less team-presence. It's okay for underused champions to see unjustified nerfs without trade-off.

It would help if you actually gave examples of these "practical uses". Better yet, think of what they are before originally posting so we don't have to waste our time watch you spin your wheels. As things are right now, she doesn't have any new "practical uses". AT THE VERY BEST, she would have the exact same number as previously, they've just been given different shape.

SunfieldAug 9, 20141 votes

Her numbers where reduced because her abilities have aditional effects. She has an aa empower and a shield, both potentialy aoe. Her laning is actualy stronger than before, but you need to have a synergy with your adc (shielding for trades, making him use empowered aa for harass). Her speed boost got a good buff since its range is limited. She is NOT weaker, her auras might take some skill, but if used to full potential, new Sona is better than the old one.

Pika310Aug 9, 20143 votes

Her numbers where reduced because her abilities have aditional effects.

Her abilities do not have additional effects, they have the same effects as before, but wearing a different duller coat of paint with a much smaller AoE than previously.

We just proved with numbers that she does less even if your ADC follows up perfectly on your abilities. Aria is ineffective until rank 3, shield or not. It's difficult for me to understand how her laning is "stronger" with overall reduced damage and less sustain until level 5 when you get your 3rd point in Aria. You told me earlier to stop paying attention to numbers and focus on the "practical uses" that you're still not providing. I'm assuming this is meant to distract from the fact that her "full potential" is less than old Sona's and you'd prefer we'd just take your word for it when you're failing to provide either logical reasoning or math. You're just saying things without explaining them and it's appearing more and more like spam.

SunfieldAug 9, 20142 votes

I tend to generalize, its true, I dont like being nitpicky. Im saying I like new Sonas laning better, with E being stronger and W having a shield. I might have missed out those 15 damage she has lost and you called me out alright. But a q nerf doesnt make for an entire laning phase nerf and the safety new e provides goes definetely in favor of new Sona. I love how you call me out on not providing logic when you yourself use Q nerf to prove than her "full potential" is lower.

If you love numbers that much, let me direct you to this page http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2c66rv/sona_rework_comparison_old_vs_new_with_math/ which proves that even mathematicaly wise new Sona is better.

But yeah, movement speed buff an an aoe shield alone make her better and I would prefer you'd just take my word for it

Emmy Cha0sAug 14, 20141 votes

This seems like a sound idea. It fits in to Sona's kit as-is and follows her Power Chord theme perfectly, but doesn't add any individual damage output to her and is completely team-reliant which keeps her out of solo lanes. After all, we already know Riot hates supports being viable anywhere other than support. The base still seems too low, it should detonate for 75% of Power Chord's damage.