Make Frozen Heart 3k Gold But Give 150HP

wobaji·Apr 28, 2018·22 votes·10,431 views

Right now FH is not a great item because it just make you WAY too vulnerable to true damage or magic damage. The mana also isn't necessarily the most useful thing ever because no one goes first item Frozen Heart.

Adding a Ruby Crystal to the build path and making it 3k gold would be perfect. So why not 3100g because that's how much a Ruby Crystal would make it worth? Simple, the time to farm it up is itself a deterrent and a cost. 3k gold is not cheap so delaying the spike by another 300g is already enough to make up for the 100g improved gold efficiency. This change would make it more attractive as a counter item without feeling totally useless vs other kinds of damage and with the buff to Cut Down as well as the proposed buffs to ADCs vs tanks, I think that's plenty enough to compensate.

25 Comments

LEAFERAApr 28, 20185 votes

Honestly, this will help FH to be viable In any situation but, do you really want that? [sg-ahri-1]

wobajiApr 28, 201813 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, this will help FH to be viable In any situation but, do you really want that? [sg-ahri-1]

Why wouldn't it be good for it to be viable? I'd still argue it's not going to be best for any situation though. It's pricier and you're spending quite a bit of gold on mana. While this would make it less bad on manaless champs, it's certainly not going to make it attractive over Randuin's vs a crit. ADC.

LetYourSleepWaneApr 28, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Why wouldn't it be good for it to be viable? I'd still argue it's not going to be best for any situation though. It's pricier and you're spending quite a bit of gold on mana. While this would make it less bad on manaless champs, it's certainly not going to make it attractive over Randuin's vs a crit. ADC.

Not to mention that it's still far more vulnerable to magic damage than Randuin's and has less synergy with % HP like the Cinderhulk passive or Titanic. FH fits best as a 2nd item because the CDR and mana are stats you want early but going it first is too awful for laning and won't help with waveclear or dueling (compared to Bami's, Ninja, Sunfire, etc.). However, as it is now, it's not even an attractive 2nd item and I think part of it is just the slot inefficiency, and hyper focus on pure armor (no crit. reduction, no HP, no MS etc.). The other armor items provide more mixed protection and the components are better for laning too. You certainly don't want to be buying mana crystals while laning but a ruby crystal is acceptable.

AzadetheApr 29, 20181 votes

You don't buy mana crystals. you buy item 3024 . Far more utility far quicker than if you build some ruby crystal build.

LichKing234Apr 29, 20181 votes

personally i rarelly see FH on champs out side of Nasus , and Malphite and Rammus , Blitzcrank (for the passive) out side of these champs its not really a viable item i mean the CDR is nice plus it does have synagry with item 3025 but do to not having alot of items it could go with (forgot about blue EZ) frozen heart is that item you get if they have a full ad team and event hen some champs still wont pick it up.

i agree with op adding a ruby crystal to it and that makes the item alot more viable as it can now synergize with item 3748 , item 3053 , item 3190 , item 1401 (both of theses) and increase the champs this item can be built on this

AzadetheApr 29, 20181 votes

It serves a specific purpose. It counters adcs more than any other tank item. It doesn't proc Lord Dominik's and it works with Transcendence on ANY AP/AD build that has 40% CDR. This means it tanks Vayne Zac Warwick etc better than any other tank item. It's also extremely effective vs Rengar and Khazix

HP is not the solve all end all.... it actually makes you die faster in most cases.

DepressedAhriApr 29, 20181 votes

Also it has the attack speed aura, so it's good against literally any champion that builds attack speed.

wobajiApr 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It serves a specific purpose. It counters adcs more than any other tank item. It doesn't proc Lord Dominik's and it works with Transcendence on ANY AP/AD build that has 40% CDR. This means it tanks etc better than any other tank item. It's also extremely effective vs and

HP is not the solve all end all.... it actually makes you die faster in most cases.

Who actually goes FH without Resolve primary/secondary and any other HP tanky item like Adaptive Helm, Thornmail, Randuin's, Deadman's, Sunfire etc.? I've literally never seen a champion refuse to build an HP item with a full build and yet go FH. Plus, I'd still argue that the HP might be worth more than the Lord Dom bonus damage because you won't be attacked ONLY by the ADC in a game.

AzadetheApr 30, 20181 votes

Evelynn Morgana Nami Nidalee Karma Sona are a few examples

TempName54846Apr 29, 20181 votes

the only one out of those 4 champs that actually sometimes kind of builds FH is nasus and he doesn't really do it either.

LichKing234Apr 30, 20181 votes

it depends on the situation vs a full ad team it can be useful do to its raw armor stats but as many people ahve pointed out you still need the hp as a defence item its pretty good and can help. and i have seen those 4 champs build it again ti depends on the team but if th enemy team isnt stupid and go full ad then the item looses effectiveness (not saying it cant be effective against non full ad teams but you will see it alot less). Overall its a so-so item

BeersteinApr 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

personally i rarelly see FH on champs out side of , and and , (for the passive) out side of these champs its not really a viable item i mean the CDR is nice plus it does have synagry with but do to not having alot of items it could go with (forgot about blue EZ) frozen heart is that item you get if they have a full ad team and event hen some champs still wont pick it up.

i agree with op adding a ruby crystal to it and that makes the item alot more viable as it can now synergize with , , , (both of theses) and increase the champs this item can be built on this

I don't think I've ever seen anyone stack them just because it's a lot of armor with 0 HP, at that point you pretty much have to build warmogs, Rylais or frozen mallet to make up for it, then you still at best have mres of your merc treats with almost offense. Though, admittedly, it'd be kinda funny to do those two+Rylais+Archangels.

LichKing234Apr 30, 20181 votes

I mean of course your going to build hp there was a quote from someone who posted or a youtuber of the game i cant rember but he said you can build all the armor and mr in the game if you dont have the hp to back it up your still going to die just as fast as if your not building any defences at all. what i should have worded it alittle better so thats my bad my friend*[slayer-jinx-catface]*

BeersteinApr 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I mean of course your going to build hp there was a quote from someone who posted or a youtuber of the game i cant rember but he said you can build all the armor and mr in the game if you dont have the hp to back it up your still going to die just as fast as if your not building any defences at all. what i should have worded it alittle better so thats my bad my friend*[slayer-jinx-catface]*

The problem with builds like this is you need to make it to end game.

LichKing234May 1, 20181 votes

that is true but atleast for me i mostly can end the game before late game hits (if im with friends anyway)

BeersteinMay 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

that is true but atleast for me i mostly can end the game before late game hits (if im with friends anyway)

Yeah, if you're not they surrender.

PopcornBunniApr 29, 20183 votes

It's fine in Transcendence builds, and MR+Health items are the norm. item 3065 item 3194 gives 800 health, and keep in mind the value of health lowers over the length of the game while armor and MR go up.

For any given health or resistance, the most gold value can be found from the formula [Health = 7.5 x Resistances +750] or [Resistances = (Health -750) / 7.5)

With just the normal two MR items or Visage + item 3068 , most tanks will be well over 3000 health by time they're building FH. The 300 gold extra would largely go to waste since it's highly unlikely they'll be at 300 Armor with the heart.

Frankly, just going even higher with the Armor by adding 300 gold worth of the stat would be a better buff.

Also remove slow resistance's/immunity's effect on Crippling. Yi and Vayne %health true damaging through item 3110 item 3075 is ridiculous.

AzadetheApr 29, 20182 votes

Horrible idea. Game NEEDS its no HP items for games where item 3036 is prevalent.

Even though nerfed, item 3003 is still important, and with Transcendence FH is potentially a 53 AP item. Stop underselling it.

SpecterVonBarenApr 29, 20182 votes

Take Randuin's Omen's active and put it on Frozen Heart, give Randuins a new active. Now it is viable as a true utility armor item and Randuins is less of a one stop shop item.

Tahminatrix Apr 29, 20181 votes

item 3110 is going to be bad regardless because of the abundance of AD casters and ofc the new conqueror rune. It needs another item to synergize with it better if it is going to be so damn specialized. Nobody builds item 3143 and nobody builds item 3075 with because more often than not its the abilities that are killing you rather than the auto attacks.

Although it will still be a lot better with hp added onto it.

Maybe have item 3110 take all of your physical damage mitigation from armor and add 2.5-5% to it, this way last whisper still counters it hard but it will make people extremely tanky to ad provided that they build tank in the first place.

So say you have 100 armor and 50% physical damage reduction, item 3110 will add 5% to that and make it 55% physical damage reduction.

This will make tanks a lot stronger against anyone who doesn't buy item 3035 or item 3071 by the time they get 250+ armor and have item 3110

I just fear it might be too strong on Rammus although it has an attack speed slow and he wants to get auto attacked.

LichKing234Apr 29, 20181 votes

Malphite , item 3110 , item 3075 , item 3742 , item 3047 , item 3143 , item 3068 against a full ad team watch as the adc tickle you

DepressedAhriApr 29, 20181 votes

Why are you stealing my Rammus build? Rammus

Mokuto BunshiApr 29, 20181 votes

I thought it was meant to be built vs % ad damage and thornmail is for everything else...

TempName74814Apr 29, 20181 votes

pretty sure the only champs that build frozen heart are the ones who rush it, and only situationally

BeersteinApr 30, 20181 votes

The problem is mana is too free right now, so it's not considered valuable when it should be. The short of it is I feel like yes the item is weak right now, but the problem is elsewhere. I say don't fix the symptoms, fix the problem, which is mana is too easy to come by.

I like to complain about Amumus mana problems, but realistically it's other champions that should share his problems, not that he should have the problem fixed.

The problem with fixing the symptom here, is that if you ever fix the problem, suddenly the symptoms you fixed become the problem. 400 mana should be a HUGE deal, but right now it isn't.

Let's go over who it's good for, people that max out a tear of the goddess item for synergy. Okay, now what champion that does that wants this anyway? I haven't seen Blitz in forever, but maybe he can still pull it off?

The thing is, even at that point now you want the mana for damage, cause you already have so much mana. Even then that's what 12AP/6AD? Not great, but better than a stat that does nothing I guess. Helps with Blitz shield too anyways.

If you add 150HP I'd say also reduce mana to 150 (but let's be realistic, it wouldn't matter cause a useless stat could have 1,000 or 0 and it's still useless, excluding mentioned synergies) So maybe -10 armor as well.

So yeah, I guess it's great on Blitz. It's effectively a +200 shield for 10 seconds. We should be careful with it unless we want blitz to get out of control again.