Absolutely Unethical False Reports Actually Working

wobaji·Oct 12, 2017·133 votes·8,591 views

I haven't been toxic virtually at all but I've gotten false reports from salty players and got punished for it. The most I'd do in a game is suggest different build paths or what not to do with our comp. I don't do it in a way that personally attacks though. It's always about the gameplay itself, not the player. For example, I might say "Blowing Ori ult. 5v5 to try to turret dive a Nautilus under turret is a bad idea. We need to just whittle them down." I won't say "wow, you're bad as hell! wtf were you thinking? go back to Bronze noobs" If you are not even allowed to communicate gameplay related ideas (not ad hominems!), I don't see the purpose of a functional chat.

The pattern I notice is that when I am heavily harassed and do not take responsibility for the BS they accuse me of, I get reported even more (by the actually toxic players - to which I often said nothing for the entire game till they berate me). The Taric and Sivir in this game specifically said they'd try to get me banned and were whining ever since lobby (because I like playing AP Kog). I was constantly accused of trolling just due to a non-meta pick which I've mained past seasons. After the game, I got an instant chat restriction for the first time. This however, isn't the first time ragers said they'd try to get me banned through unjustified report. I've seen some similar cases too searching the forums.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/VzLZtMLe-toxic-players-ganged-up-on-me-got-me-a-2-week-ban-read-if-you-dont-believe-it

In the game, I got camped by Hecarim and Katarina got a lead off it. As an immobile mage, there wasn't much I could do. Quite a few of the times I died, I was nearly at my turret and Hecarim just ganked over the wall from our jungle. I absorbed 3 ganks before 7 minutes until finally dying. Hecarim E into Kat's mobility allows easy dives and I felt helpless against it. I was accused of trolling and inting (even after just 1 death). I didn't even die to Katarina solo during lane phase and had a CS + HP lead until the camp paid off. Every time I lost some pressure mid or died, my respawn timer was pinged by Sivir and Taric (who were also losing lane just straight 2v2) + some comment about how bad I am and what a troll I've been, how everyone should report me etc.

It's hard to understand chat in a vacuum and it's really disappointing that Riot doesn't provide at least anonymous context. I'm obviously not talking to a wall in the game. I feel like this is a huge disservice to honest evaluation since language is context dependent and you can't have a solo conversation without looking insane. It's basically rigged against you. You could be winning in the game by a large margin and when a fed carry dies for the first time, you type "feeder" as a joke. Later, however, the game is thrown and perhaps you're blamed for it. The false reports create an investigation and the chat analyzer decides you were toxic because you called someone a feeder even though any human in that game realizes it was a joke. They need to abandon this BS and bring back a system where you're judged by a community of your peers. Even one innocent player punished unfairly is worse than a dozen toxic players being correctly punished. They should at the very least have an appeal process which is actually valid (support just gives some generic copy pasted response and virtually never reverses a punishment or admits wrongdoing). It's fine to have an automated system for this stuff, but not by itself.

BTW: The comment saying "your build is very bad" was a reference to the hypothetical build he was demanding I go. I also don't think that's at all toxic because it's just my opinion that Morello and Rylai's are no longer good on AP Kog relative to the alternatives. He's not really a poke champion now. He's a burst + execute champion. The build I was doing is definitely much better and the top AP Kog in the world (he's D1 EUW & EUNE) explains why in his guide.

Here's the only chat log given:

Game 1 wobaji: hec burnted through all my pots sigh wobaji: no she didn't wobaji: she was losing wobaji: hec wone lane for her wobaji: can't doa nyhting 1v2 wobaji: wasn't even far wobaji: 3rd gnak wobaji: it wouldn't matter what i was wobaji: if i don't have an escape wobaji: if i were xerath wobaji: same thing wobaji: just jg autowinning a lane wobaji: zero counterplay to it wobaji: ifn immobile wobaji: mid's done off htat wobaji: but all our other alnes should be winning sicne hec ganked 3x mid before 7 min wobaji: that was in no way my fault wobaji: idk why you keep pinigng lmao wobaji: you're note ven winning bot solo wobaji: hec counterganks adn so he wins wobaji: because he already got fed earlier from camping wobaji: muting all wobaji: if you didn't want to play witha kog mid wobaji: you were free to judge wobaji: in champ select and dodge wobaji: if not, zero right to compalin wobaji: neither is sivir wobaji: i have issues because i don't like getting spam pinged my timer whenever i die>? wobaji: dude help push wobaji: hec wil kill m wobaji: it's fien wobaji: he left wobaji: btw, i realize ap kog's not the best but I enjoy playing him wobaji: before the reworks, he was 100% viable in any elo bust challenger wobaji: this was true wobaji: for 3 seasons wobaji: maybe more wobaji: lol wobaji: morello wobaji: your build is very bad wobaji: with mroello wobaji: or rylais wobaji: rylais used to be good before rework wobaji: mever doed sp;p wobaji: never died solo wobaji: so you tell me wobaji: 2 mid wobaji: 3 wobaji: shvoe bot wobaji: ? wobaji: that's the least of the issues wobaji: look at yourself wobaji: why don't you win lane when their jungler spends 10 minutes mid? wobaji: you even counter them wobaji: E any hook wobaji: if taric gets grabbed, it's a free win wobaji: etc. wobaji: rammus, where's your stattik shiv? you need to carry this wobaji: at least i got 11 now wobaji: nope wobaji: i didn't even play badly tbh wobaji: not much i can do wobaji: no, just reality wobaji: what do you want me to do vs hec diving + kat ult wobaji: ? wobaji: hec still focusses me wobaji: event hoguh i'm weak wobaji: not really wobaji: took him 10 sec wobaji: i have hp wobaji: sivir si easier wobaji: sivir is squisheir wobaji: if he were divign her wobaji: how is that my fault in any way whatsoever? wobaji: i die warding near my base and so sivir harasses me wobaji: as if that's somehow inting or in any way my fautl wobaji: i get turret dived, more harassment wobaji: and? wobaji: if i were xerath, do you think kat wouldn't kill me there or hec dives woudlnt' wrok? wobaji: if it's trolling, it's RIot's fault wobaji: he was viable AP since release till rework wobaji: pretty sure i even outdamaged this raging sivir wobaji: i never inted even once, they're just lyign

EDIT: For clarification, the comment about outdamaging Sivir was a response to being told that I was useless and did no damage. I ended up doing the most damage on our team but we were nearly 20k behind at the time of the comment. I was no serious threat to them.

I find it both hilarious and sad that I got punished here. I wasn't even retaliating. I was simply explaining the situation while waiting to respawn/walking to mid and being unfairly characterized as an inter/troll etc. (it was a blowout game all over the map). I'm sure that's not against any rule. When I responded less, those two resorted to all chat harassment and calls for reports on me. It feels like yet another case where the victim is the one blamed and punished. If someone doesn't like you in this game, it doesn't seem to matter whether they make unethical reports or not because there's no Tribunal anymore. There's no oversight, just some automated nonsense where the salty people reporting are judge, jury and executioner and your defense is nowhere to be found. There is no impartial jury giving you a fair trial.

If enough people get annoyed by you over time, all the BS reports actually lead to a punishment. There are plenty of games where I say "my bad" and take responsibility for mistakes. That's not required but I have no problem with that. However, I won't take responsibility for what I don't think is in my control. These toxic players are furious when you refuse to be their scapegoat so they report you. It's also quite funny that I had this Sivir next game as a Thresh and carried that game with AP Kog. This time he harassed his ADC more but also berated me in lobby and near the start of the game. He only raged less when it was clear we'd win but even in that game, after he fails a play mid (with me under turret with a wave), he starts raging at me. and calls for reports are issued.

216 Comments

StarGuardianWeebOct 12, 201738 votes

I want to chime in here and say that my friend yesterday just had to get a hold of Riot support because a false report got him a 14-day ban. The jungler told them to literally KYS and the system automatically banned him because he said back "wow really? You tell your team to kys? Over a game? Okay kid muted." And the jg reported him falsely.

And the support person on the other line said that apparently you are not allowed to say it back to them, you are supposed to immediately mute them and not respond or else you face a penalty too. All he could do was change his ban to a 25 game chat restrict which it's better but still makes him obviously upset because he did do the right thing and mute them after that. (Side note that jungler also got banned after all this, and his was apparently permanent.)

I hope that next year that's what riot dedicates all their time to, getting a better system that can track the validity of certain reports as well as getting people that actually deserve to be banned punished sooner so they can ruin less games. This automatic system is doing okay bit it needs a serious improvement and some dedicated team members.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 201720 votes

Ya, see this is the problem with Riot. They actually firmly believe at an institutional level that context does not matter, despite the fact that entire legal systems are designed to the contrary. What your friend did is technically "bannable" because Riot has arbitrary rules regarding "the use of the mute function as a weapon" and a 100% lack of context in the report function. So basically, the ban bot saw that your friend threatened with a mute and also used the phrase "kys" while calling out another player. So even though he/she did absolutely nothing wrong, the ban bot simply checks off the criteria required for a punishment and then issues it automatically (note, I can say for a fact that Riot Games reviews precisely none of the bans issued by the ban bot, except MAYBE for permabans, but I can't be certain there as I've never been permabanned).

We need a massive reform of this system, but we've needed it for years and Riot has done nothing. The Tribunal and its ability to see the context of each player's actions is the only feasible way around this, but that would require Riot to admit that they fucked up by removing it, which they will never do.

KloqdqOct 13, 20174 votes

Technically speaking, Riot holds the right to do this as it is apart of their terms of service.

When X player tells Y player to "kys" and Y player responds with "Kys", they have both failed to meet the terms of service. This is regardless if Y player is doing it as a response or "defense". Even then it's a really grey area as to it being defense.

The tribunal as a system is a flawed one since it takes a lot of man power and upkeep to make functional and over time it became nearly impossible to truly touch on every single report that came in simply due to the ever growing nature of the game. It's why they have the current automatic bot in place. It is a system that can instantly react to the reports that come in rather than a report lingering and almost never being hit.

I don't believe there needs to be a massive reform of the system but it does need some fine tuning. It's not perfect, and never will be. But for the massive task this is, it needs to exist. Does it need to be the only existing system in place though? Probably not.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20175 votes

Read the fucking chat logs dude. He clearly did not tell another play to kill himself.

The Tribunal is categorically NOT flawed, as it allows players to weigh in on how they want to police the community instead of forcing the authority of an automated system upon us that has no bearing on our actual will. And no, it takes significantly less manpower to run, as it's effectively run by players. Just stop, you are so wrong it hurts.

KloqdqOct 13, 20177 votes

Commenting on the post you replied to, not about the OP. Completely different cases.

The Tribunal is flawed because it is limited by the amount of players being involved and Riot still needs to be involved in it. They can't just drop it on the players laps and let them go wild.

Hell, whenever someone gets falsely banned they are helped out. People seem to think that tons of players are being falsely accused of shit on a daily basis when it rarely happens. In the like 3 months I've been actively look at the boards there has had to be at least 10 players out of hundreds that have actually been falsely punished. This guy, maybe didn't deserve it. He is slightly negative. Does that mean he should have been hard punished? Based on this info, no. Though I don't have all the info needed. Maybe he is worse, maybe not. No idea. If it's false, it will get sorted out. Like it always does.

The system has issues but the Tribunal was not perfect either. This system is also based on the Tribunal's results as well so it's just an actually fast Tribunal. Again, not perfect, but it does the job well enough and quickly enough.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20173 votes

The Tribunal is flawed because it is limited by the amount of players being involved and Riot still needs to be involved in it. They can't just drop it on the players laps and let them go wild.

??? Anyone who was level 30 could login and vote in the Tribunal. There was no shortage of participation. The only "flaw" was that it took too long to actually hand out the punishments. This could be easily remedied if Riot actually gave a fuck and invested the massive profits they reap from us back into the community instead of paying employees to design fucking recolors (aka chromas).

Hell, whenever someone gets falsely banned they are helped out.

Wrong. This only applies to people who are permanently banned. It takes Riot so long to respond to false bans that anything other than a permaban will have expired long before they get involved. Also, in my extensive personal experience with this automated system, I can't even get a Rioter to talk to me about my punishments. I have literally only ever got automated or severely canned responses that simply included links to the Player Behavior page on the website without addressing a single one of my concerns (ie false reports, massively exaggerated punishments, such as my 14 day time ban, 30 game chat restriction, and 15 game ranked ban ALL FOR A SINGLE INSTANCE OF SAYING "gg afk" without actually going afk).

The only issue with the Tribunal was temporality. It took to long to hand out punishments. But since Riot has clearly displayed that they do not care about reforming players, only about punishing them, this shouldn't be an issue.

KloqdqOct 13, 20171 votes

??? Anyone who was level 30 could login and vote in the Tribunal. There was no shortage of participation. The only "flaw" was that it took too long to actually hand out the punishments. This could be easily remedied if Riot actually gave a fuck and invested the massive profits they reap from us back into the community instead of paying employees to design fucking recolors (aka chromas).

You clearly have some kind of issue with Riot and don't seem to understand the problems of the Tribunal and why it was scraped in the first place. Also, different teams for different things. You aren't going to bring in art guys to support your player support team.

From just a business perspective, they can't just blindly start hiring people either because that creates more overhang, more loss of profit which comes to effect their employees. People think Riot can just throw money on the problem but you clearly don't understand they can't do that.

Wrong. This only applies to people who are permanently banned. It takes Riot so long to respond to false bans that anything other than a permaban will have expired long before they get involved. Also, in my extensive personal experience with this automated system, I can't even get a Rioter to talk to me about my punishments. I have literally only ever got automated or severely canned responses that simply included links to the Player Behavior page on the website without addressing a single one of my concerns (ie false reports, massively exaggerated punishments, such as my 14 day time ban, 30 game chat restriction, and 15 game ranked ban ALL FOR A SINGLE INSTANCE OF SAYING "gg afk" without actually going afk).

People get support all the time and it does not need to just be a perma ban. As seen only last week where a guy on a 14 day ban got it lifted. That is just the most recent example but there is more. Sorry your personal experience has been so rotten but many players find support quickly and effectively. My experience with player support has been fine thus far. All I can say is keep trying to contact player support for help and submitting tickets. The system isn't perfect yes, but it is far from being the complete failure you are painting it to be.

The only issue with the Tribunal was temporality. It took to long to hand out punishments. But since Riot has clearly displayed that they do not care about reforming players, only about punishing them, this shouldn't be an issue.

They created a system that delivers punishment similar to how the tribunal has, with some degree of failure, it's not perfect after all. However, it manages to act far faster and is majority of the time right. If you were flagged and you are unsure why, you can contact player support and they will help you understand.

IN your case, yeah, you would have it overturned but you are just having a bad experience. It does not mean the system as a whole is bad.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20173 votes

You aren't going to bring in art guys to support your player support team.

No, the art team is about the only team at Riot that doesn't routinely suck. But the fact of the matter is, Riot endorses all it's teams. To categorize the Player Behavior team as "Riot" is correct as long as Riot continues to support them. But that's semantics, let's move on from that.

You clearly have some kind of issue with Riot and don't seem to understand the problems of the Tribunal and why it was scraped in the first place.

The issue that I have is that a powerful figure (Riot) is using an automated system to pass judgement on a purely human interaction and then preaching its accuracy to the masses (you and the community) despite its glaring flaws. That is not ok.

People get support all the time and it does not need to just be a perma ban. As seen only last week where a guy on a 14 day ban got it lifted. That is just the most recent example but there is more. Sorry your personal experience has been so rotten but many players find support quickly and effectively. My experience with player support has been fine thus far. All I can say is keep trying to contact player support for help and submitting tickets. The system isn't perfect yes, but it is far from being the complete failure you are painting it to be.

I don't think I've ever gotten a real person to respond to me for a behavior-related ticket. And when they do (which only occurs 4 weeks after the initial ticket or longer, at which point the ban is lifted and I tend to lose interest in banging my head against a wall) they give me very canned responses that do not address the specifics of my particular case.

They created a system that delivers punishment similar to how the tribunal has, with some degree of failure, it's not perfect after all. However, it manages to act far faster and is majority of the time right. If you were flagged and you are unsure why, you can contact player support and they will help you understand.

The Tribunal really didn't hand out false bans. It just gave out slow bans. The fact that other players could review the chat logs WITH PROPER CONTEXT allowed for a significantly more accurate system. I would rather the system be slow and correct than fast and inaccurate. It's better to let 10 toxic players roam freely (for a month or so) than to permaban one innocent player.

And I know exactly why I was flagged. I was a huge dick. I deserved my first few bans most definitely. But I have since reformed, and it really doesn't matter. And despite Riot's acknowledgement that "everyone has bad days", I have gotten bans for singular games.

ModPeriscopeOct 13, 20174 votes

Most of what you've said is inaccurate. You claim the "only" flaw is the long report to punishment time. That's a pretty major flaw, since that allows the player to continue doing his actions without reform until he receives a punishment. The amount of participants in the tribunal did not keep pace with the reports; thus, the long time between reports and punishments.

From personal experience, I disagree with your assessment of their response. They've even implemented 1 on 1 chat, available during working hours.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20173 votes

Patience is truly a virtue then. I'd rather have something take time and be correct that to be done quickly and wrong. One false ban is worse than letting 10 toxic players go free. I'd rather take the time to ensure that all punishments are correct in both veracity and severity than to have punishments doled out within 5 mins of the report being submitted without an actual person reviewing it (which is exactly what happens).

ModPeriscopeOct 13, 20171 votes

Their false positives are at a pretty low rate. You're also sacrificing consistency due to subjective analysis by a diverse population.

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Their false positives are at a pretty low rate. You're also sacrificing consistency due to subjective analysis by a diverse population.

According to Riot themselves, the manner in which the ban bot bans is based on the sum of the actions of the Tribunal. And actually, Riot has stated numerous times that the Tribunal is was actually stricter than they wanted for their ideal system. So if Riot is to be believed, there would be no change if the Tribunal were brought back. Something tells me that we shouldn't believe that...

ModPeriscopeOct 15, 20172 votes

Riot has stated numerous times that the Tribunal is was actually stricter than they wanted for their ideal system.

Please cite your source.

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Please cite your source.

LOL go fucking find it in the fucking archives of Riot's fucking memos to the community. I don't have time for people who are uninformed.

ModPeriscopeOct 15, 20173 votes

Or... skip the middle man and just say you made it up. You can't say when or who, and it sounds entirely erroneous. The burden of proof is on you.

TrulyBlandOct 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

And actually, Riot has stated numerous times that the Tribunal is was actually stricter than they wanted for their ideal system.

Really now? Did they? http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3231191&page=23#post35694081

We ultimately discovered that Rioters tended to be much, much stricter than the Tribunal.

Because Lyte has stated the exact opposite. And unlike you I have a source on this.

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Really now? Did they? http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3231191&page=23#post35694081

Because Lyte has stated the exact opposite. And unlike you I have a source on this.

LOL you quoted Lyte, a guy that got fired by Riot for literally lying and misrepresenting data. So fucking funny.

TrulyBlandOct 15, 20172 votes

Please show me proof of him lying, misrepresenting data, or hell, at least show me proof that he was actually fired.

JorenciceOct 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Dude wtf??? Like seriously I don't have the time or energy to deal with people who question common knowledge. He "resigned" (aka got fired) from Riot after his bullshit survey that proved beyond a doubt that the community supported Dynamic Queue caused Riot to create Dynamic Queue. He used a series of rather misleading questions and then interpreted the data as a support for DQ when in fact all he really had was that a bunch of players said they liked playing LoL with their friends. Do some of the work yourself, unlike you I have shit to do.

Also, as I have said at least once already, this was a rioter comment in a post on these boards that I read probably 3 years ago. There is simply no way to find such a post, as I don't fucking archive every post I read on here. As for the Lyte situation, this is common knowledge. To dispute this is to invalidate every argument you have made so far on the topic.

Its common knowledge to people that dont actually know anything.

Lyte didnt gey fired. Period. End of story.

Dont know why all you crazy people think "well duh it just makes sense" is enough evidence to prove he got fired.

LA LostyOct 13, 20171 votes

I highly doubt Riot doesnt think context matters, but i can see why it would be difficult for an automated system to figure out the exact intend on the comment, and there is no way Riot can go through all the chatlogs themselves obviously. Theyve mentioned before that swearing is fine as long as you are not insulting another player. I saw a similar situation where a guy got banned because he joked around with his friend in chat and was reported for it. Again, thats not really something the system can detect. Either way it definitely sucks and we can always hope for improvements on the ban system. Im just glad this guy is getting attention so he can have the ban lifted.

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20172 votes

I highly doubt Riot doesnt think context matters

They literally say this 100% of the time anyone tries to fight a ban with the "I was defending myself" defense. They truly believe that it is the responsibility of the harassed player to mute the aggressor, and punish you for not doing so if you (inevitably) retaliate. This is borderline victim blaming.

and there is no way Riot can go through all the chatlogs themselves obviously.

And no-one ever asked them to. But man, if only there were some kind of system that allowed other people to read the chat logs. Like players maybe, there's plenty of us willing to read through chat logs. And then maybe if they implemented some kind of system that allowed us to vote on whether or not we thought the player was deserving of punishment, and then if the majority voted to punish, only then would it go to Riot for review. To ban no such system exists. Oh wait...

Again, thats not really something the system can detect

A system that punishes one innocent person is far worse than one that lets 10 guilty ones get away. If this statement holds any weight (and it obviously does) the system needs to go. Now.

HalcyonDwellerOct 12, 201725 votes

Hopefully Tantram can review and clear this up. I upvoted to get attention on this, just know that if you are lying then it won't benefit you.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20173 votes

Riot will do nothing. They don't review bans before issuing them for a reason: they don't care. The only time they get involved is in the case of a permaban because I believe there could be legal ramifications for such actions (not entirely sure, but I can certainly see how it might be lawsuit-worthy).

HalcyonDwellerOct 13, 20179 votes

That is not how it works.

Don't spread false information and pretend that Riot doesn't care.

Tantram comes on the boards plenty. And I've seen him lift players' bans several different times.

V The Support VOct 13, 20177 votes

Truth. He also increases/upgrades bans if people are bullshitting. For OP's sake I hope this is legit. If not, it's item 3184 TIME!

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

koocharioOct 12, 201712 votes

I'm sure they'll find some random game where you were actually toxic and then suggest that it's OK that false reports got you chat restricted because at one point, you did something wrong. The classic "it's OK that I planted cocaine on him, you honor", he once didn't pay a parking ticket.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20173 votes

This is exactly what they say when the reform card only contains one game. Source: way too much personal experience, despite having reformed my behavior dramatically years ago...

TerozuOct 13, 20173 votes

In other words you are or were toxic. You realize that puts you on thin ice right? You cN punished for more minor things because of your history.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20173 votes

{quoted}

In other words you are or were toxic. You realize that puts you on thin ice right? You cN punished for more minor things because of your history.

Yes, I was toxic. In season 2. I have reformed, and went without punishment for nearly a year. Then Lyte took over and automated the system and all of a sudden I was on a chat ban nearly every other week, despite my behavior not changing from the pre-automation. This literally proves that there's an issue of sensitivity and also that Riot gives 0 fucks about reforming players.

Starcraft243verOct 13, 20174 votes

Nope it just proves you didnt reform enough. Being passive agressive is still being toxic. Just break your enter key and you're fine. If you are not able to communicate peacefully with people, dont communicate at all.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In other words you are or were toxic. You realize that puts you on thin ice right? You cN punished for more minor things because of your history.

Junior Mints are being sued for putting to much empty space in a candy box. Legal action can be taken for literally anything, and it will at least be bad publicity for the company. They will likely settle to just make it go away. You think Riot is immune to this because of a contract that no one reads? You are naive, friend.

TerozuOct 13, 20172 votes

It doesnt matter that you can sue them it matters whether or not you can win. Ignorance of the rules is not exemption. And if youre constantly being punished then you are doing something wrong.

Jo0oOct 12, 20177 votes

Only one game provided? It's usually three.

wobajiOct 12, 201728 votes

Yes, only one and it's comical that I even got some free keys a few days ago for good sportsmanship. That is the full and unedited log. There were never any previous punishments.

They say that false reports don't count but it's clearly not true at all. Especially if you play off meta and thus get falsely reported more than others. It definitely starts counting against you. I'm pretty sure they just look at the report frequency along with some keywords. If you get reported significantly more than the normal population, even if the reports are BS, you will get punished. The reason they say false reports won't count against you is that in most cases, if those people reporting are isolated cases, it won't move you to the threshold of a punishment.

However if people routinely don't like you and want to use you as a scapegoat due to an off meta pick or because you refuse to take all blame etc. you'll be reported more than average so the system will think you are at fault automatically. It's a case of accused = guilty and you have no fair hearing. If you were an awkward woman in Salem and the community decides you're a witch, you're automatically guilty. What was their defense? It's the same here. You dared to play AP Kog and didn't perform well while camped, it doesn't matter that the team lost everywhere on the map, it's all your fault and you're a troll + inter. You chose to build Rod of Ages on Ziggs with 30% CDR/lvl runes for a scaling build, you're trolling and why we're all losing. I accuse you of being an idiot and terrible when my play backfires and you say that it wasn't a good idea to dive, how dare you?!? Report please! He dared to not accept the blame! Hell, I remember some people being accused of trolling for starting Raptors earlier in the season. If you are not exactly what they're used to, you're a troll and always at fault for a loss.

MonkeyMadnessOct 13, 20175 votes

This is literally what happened to me. I had the displeasure of playing a normal draft game with a 3man premade back in January and got autofilled. I asked the team if they would mind if I played Panth support (which isn't really that troll anyways). They agreed, provided I promised to get a sightstone (which i planned to do anyways). Well, we got camped hard and lost lane pretty bad. Our jg was trash and never helped, but that's a different story. Ofc, despite not helping, he still made plenty of criticism to my "obvious trolling", and the rest of his premade joined in. The only questionable thing that I did all game was hop in all chat to try to garner some amount of support from the enemy team against the frankly deplorable harassment I was enduring. I had a 14 day ban within 5 minutes of the game ending (right, Riot TOTALLY reviews every ban before implementing it...at 1 in the morning on a Sunday...seems legit...).

NightWind42Oct 13, 20173 votes

Holy, you seem to be so upset and salty in every single of your comments in this thread... I would be very curious to see some of your chat logs. Especially when you say this: "The only questionable thing that I did all game was hop in all chat to try to garner some amount of support from the enemy team against the frankly deplorable harassment I was enduring." Kinda makes me wonder where you put the boundaries of "questionable" and how you try to get that support.

Telephone BoothOct 12, 20177 votes

My advice is to simply just stop arguing with people in the middle of matches. I have no idea how many people report me, because when someone flames me, I don't get into a debate with them. I ignore it... that's all Riot wants you to do. They don't care if you got good advice. They just want you to save that shit for outside of the match. You don't deeply discuss the theories behind plays and shit when the play is happening. You do that outside of the game. A lot of people bitch about toxicity, and most of them are people who take themselves too seriously. Someone flames you for a play, and you want to discuss the reasoning behind it, as if they're a rational player who's genuinely criticizing you??? Nooooo... they're irrational and tilted and possibly a troll just trying to bait you into an arguement. Ignore it!! I have 0 problems with the toxicity in this game, because I don't engage with people like that. There are tons of resources for improving your play and game knowledge... in the middle of the match is not the time for that. Except of course your own learning from experience.

Lothàrs EdgeOct 12, 201713 votes

But that's the irony. They're a troll that's trying to bait people yet they get away with it. And you know what? It's addicting. It's like a vigilante who punishes evil-doers. That's the state of the game that League of Legends is in because Riot monitors "behavior" heavily, even censoring words like "Satan" for whatever reason.

It's human to react when you're emotionally invested and actually trying hard to win the game while other people are just enjoying the thrill of reporting. I find myself reporting back because it's my petty way of getting justice and I understand the mentality behind it. I know this is Riot's game, Riot's rules. It's just a very parental, babied, troll-inducing version of the way we would deal with things in real life. IRL, you can walk away. Or you can tell them off, and that's completely normal, especially here in North America and in other places like Brazil.

Telephone BoothOct 12, 20173 votes

{quoted}

But that's the irony. They're a troll that's trying to bait people yet they get away with it. And you know what? It's addicting. It's like a vigilante who punishes evil-doers. That's the state of the game that League of Legends is in because Riot monitors "behavior" heavily, even censoring words like "Satan" for whatever reason.

It's human to react when you're emotionally invested and actually trying hard to win the game while other people are just enjoying the thrill of reporting. I find myself reporting back because it's my petty way of getting justice and I understand the mentality behind it. I know this is Riot's game, Riot's rules. It's just a very parental, babied, troll-inducing version of the way we would deal with things in real life. IRL, you can walk away. Or you can tell them off, and that's completely normal, especially here in North America and in other places like Brazil.

Yes in real life, you can walk away. The equivalent of that here is muting. Mute and report.

Yes I report too, and I always feel like it's petty, but it's easy so I do it. I'm not actually bothered by flamers, but I report them anyway, cuz had they flamed someone else, like the OP, the chat would be focused on petty arguments and perhaps some people would lose focus if they're busy thinking about how go one up the guy in chat next.

It's like a stupid little dick measuring contest going on in the middle of the match. How can they be focused on enemy positions, cooldown timers, lane control, zoning, positioning, and all the other meta shit that goes on outside of just pressing buttons, while they're in the middle of a heated debate over the decisions made 5 minutes ago???

So just shut the fuck up and move on, stop dwelling on mistakes. That's what I say. So I report people because I don't want games full of petty bickering.

I could mute, but that's not the issue. It's my allies being distracted. They aren't fully focused and on top of their game because they're putting energy and thought into their argument, not their game.

So zero tolerance is what we have. Great. Idc. I know it's selfish, but I don't give a fuck about people getting banned because of this shit. It doesn't affect me, and I can't relate to people who it does affect. I guess I'm an emotionless robot.

YogurtFlingerOct 13, 20171 votes

I just received a permanent ban on my main account i have been playing for 3 years now. Fuck RIOT im pissed. after the money i have spent and time i have dedicated to this game and permanent ban without hearing my side. yes i gave up in the game i was playing due to lvl 3 my toxic support (calling me trash etc) left lane for me to die. so i keep getting dove and killed because they know i am alone. yes i gave up. but the other player was toxic. Also used the names %%%%%%oni and niglet i believe. Great game you guys have here thanks for taking my hard earned money and not giving a shit about me as a player. Will make sure my children and they're friends stop playing as well.

Telephone BoothOct 13, 20178 votes

{quoted}

I just received a permanent ban on my main account i have been playing for 3 years now. Fuck RIOT im pissed. after the money i have spent and time i have dedicated to this game and permanent ban without hearing my side. yes i gave up in the game i was playing due to lvl 3 my toxic support (calling me trash etc) left lane for me to die. so i keep getting dove and killed because they know i am alone. yes i gave up. but the other player was toxic. Also used the names %%%%%%oni and niglet i believe. Great game you guys have here thanks for taking my hard earned money and not giving a shit about me as a player. Will make sure my children and they're friends stop playing as well.

Why didn't you mute him? Why did you give up? To spite the support? What about the 3 other people in the game? Sounds selfish. You got upset, offended, and instead of muting and just reporting after game, you ruin the game for everyone involved. Good shit man, you're a great example for your children and their friends.

KartagiaOct 13, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fdq6H7Em,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-10-12T23:45:40.041+0000)

Yes in real life, you can walk away. The equivalent of that here is muting. Mute and report.

This is not true. Walking away does not work like this. Walking away would be leaving the game, and not getting punished as you were attacked by rules breakers. If this was the case, system would work. IT is not the case. Riot does not give a shit how much you are bullied.

The main reason why mute and report does not work: The bully gets free reign to talk other players against you. You cannot defend yourself. And I have seen it totally false information that multiple reports does not count more than single report. I got punished for chat log from last game only where 4 people did attack me together, and all of them reported me for defending against their int. feeding. And none of them were punished as my single report on them did nothing at all.

Riot have been lying to us all the time. You cannot trust single word Riot says. They have said off-meta is not reason for report, but followed it with "but if you continue report them, we will punish them". That case of Support Singed proved us Riot does not want to punish wrong doers, as they know they would lose majority of players.

GorantharonOct 13, 20174 votes

{quoted}

The main reason why mute and report does not work: The bully gets free reign to talk other players against you.

Who gives a fuck? If you do nothing bannable, nothing happens. It doesn't matter how many reports you get in a game, so when the ybully reports you the rest of the players are irrelevant.

No, you reather waste all that time defending yourself.

PrometheSOct 12, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fdq6H7Em,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-12T22:22:17.062+0000)

My advice is to simply just stop arguing with people in the middle of matches. I have no idea how many people report me, because when someone flames me, I don't get into a debate with them. I ignore it... that's all Riot wants you to do. They don't care if you got good advice. They just want you to save that shit for outside of the match. You don't deeply discuss the theories behind plays and shit when the play is happening. You do that outside of the game. A lot of people bitch about toxicity, and most of them are people who take themselves too seriously. Someone flames you for a play, and you want to discuss the reasoning behind it, as if they're a rational player who's genuinely criticizing you??? Nooooo... they're irrational and tilted and possibly a troll just trying to bait you into an arguement. Ignore it!! I have 0 problems with the toxicity in this game, because I don't engage with people like that. There are tons of resources for improving your play and game knowledge... in the middle of the match is not the time for that. Except of course your own learning from experience.

Maybe explaining yourself doesn't do much good vs someone dead set on blaming you but you should have every right to do it as long as you don't afk. If you type during re spawning or walking, I see no problem with it. It's only retaliation that I'd take issue with. For example, if someone calls you garbage and you say "you're an autistic retard", that's clear retaliation. If we were judging chat purely by what's most useful to say, there would be almost nothing said ever that pings can't just as equally represent. Stuff like "gj" or "wp" is equally useless and doesn't provide any truly valuable information. Are we judging that too? You're allowed to defend yourself and explain the situation. You shouldn't have to just decide to take all the blame for whatever people feel like. Does that mean the explanations matter? Maybe they only matter to the player feeling unfairly accused but to take even that away gives way too much power to toxic players. If people were calling you an eater of feces who like to have sex with goats, perhaps it's best to not respond since that accuser is clearly disturbed, but someone certainly shouldn't be blamed for saying "that's absurd and patently false".

ModPeriscopeOct 13, 20177 votes

It does seem like you weren't getting any help from your team, and that some of your teammates were blaming you for their team's problems. And you tried to defuse the problem:

wobaji: muting all

But then you kept arguing with your teammates. You don't harass anyone, but you're constantly arguing with your teammates. I wouldn't want this chat in my game. And I'm sure I wouldn't have wanted Sivir's chat either.

FrockSaintsOct 13, 20175 votes

I main Yi, so a LOT of people hate me and report me just because I'm Yi. Literally I've gotten reported many times just for playing Yi, as I've been told by some enemies. And sometimes I lose lane or die because of a bad decision and people will very quickly say I'm inting. The point is I get reported a lot, even though I'm just playing the game. And I know I get reported a lot because a lot of people will actually ask for the rest to report me as well.

Despite this, I don't get punished. Why? Because I keep arguments to a minimum. If there's a lot of flame, I just mute. And this works. If you try arguing with people, you'll get punished for it, one way or another. That isn't to say you shouldn't ask riot support to revert this punishment, but you can avoid similar complications in the future by not arguing with people.

Tenth LeperOct 12, 20174 votes

The single line I take exception too is "your build is very bad" which would really ruffle my feathers if someone said it to me. That being said, it seems odd to punish for one insult. Is this habitual?

PrometheSOct 12, 20179 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tenth Leper,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fdq6H7Em,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-12T22:33:26.726+0000)

The single line I take exception too is "your build is very bad" which would really ruffle my feathers if someone said it to me. That being said, it seems odd to punish for one insult. Is this habitual?

He wasn't even talking about an in game build. He was responding to the armchair players telling him what to build instead. Also, last time I checked, you're allowed to have opinions on builds. Even if it was a real build, people are allowed to think what they want about certain strategies and builds. Some things are just true even if not positive. We can't silence all comments that aren't positive just because someone can get offended (which is true no matter what). Some stuff is actually very justified. This isn't the thought police. That's not what reports are for.

People will have different opinions on builds and strategies. That's healthy as long as you aren't targeting a player. I saw a Rod of Ages Taric a few days ago in high Gold games. I literally told him it was a terrible build. He explained his reasoning and I explained mine. I told him that it's just objectively awful because he needs CDR more than AP and doesn't have the gold income for a fast RoA anyway. He says he always does it and that's pretty much that. It's still a shit build even if he uses it often. That's not toxicity by itself. Now, if you say something like "I knew a retard like you would build something as stupid as X.", that's not about just builds anymore.