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My Idea for a Shyvana Rework

Mira Arya Enthe··33 votes·6,323 views

DISCLAIMER Okay... I have been afraid to do this, because people are quite judgemental on these kind of things. So before you bother reading the rework idea. Note that it is just an idea, it isn't rounded out through beta testing, it isn't balanced by a professional balance team, it isn't even in its absolute form. It is JUST an idea. And it is mostly to spark a conversation among Shyvana players on what can be done with her. So instead of just downvoting and moving on. If you don't like something, like something, or have a different idea, share it below so we can all see it!

I also claim by no means to be an expert at LoL. Period. This is my views as somebody who loves the character, on what would make her more fun. As this is an actual rework idea, it is separate from my other post about Shyvana QoL changes. You can find that here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jh8FpIVR-shyvana-qol-buffs-bug-fixes-and-visual-changes-list

So... let's get into it.

Visually: Obviously a rework would include new visuals. I will describe each ability to the best of my ability. For her model, I already mentioned in my other post, it needs to match her new artwork. It is out of date and honestly a bit goofy looking. Here is a fan concept I find lovely. http://orig03.deviantart.net/3442/f/2014/353/e/d/_wip_5__shyvana_the_half_dragon_by_yuliuskrisna-d8agh9y.jpg

Passive: Dragonborn Shyvana gains 2/3/4/5% damage reduction from her naturally toughened body, this increases with her Fury to a maximum of 6/8/10% at full Fury. During "Dragon's Descent" Shyvana will instead have 9/12/15% damage reduction.

Reasoning: People have said many times her passive needs to be more interactive. This passive is not only interactive, but post lvl6 is both rewarding to Shyvana, but also gives her enemies counterplay against her. Unlike the static armor and magic resist buff. They know fighting her at full fury she will take a lot less damage. In dragon form she gets an overall boost to it, to prevent dragon form from becoming a negative: "If I use my ult I will lose some of my fury and damage reduction." But immediately AFTER dragon's descent ends, she will be back down to the base 3/4/5% reduction, which will show on a counter above her abilities. This means directly after her ult ends, she will be slightly more vulnerable. This period of weakness as she builds her fury again, will make her a bit more hesitant to just blow her ult every time it is up. It also means she can be coordinated against. If she just used her ult to gank bot. You know she is at her weakest, this is the time to try to counter jungle her.

However making it % damage reduction instead of Armor and Magic resist, does give her some advantages out of it. Namely, it is not affected by penetration or damage type. However baseline the % damage reduction is quite a bit weaker than her current MR and Armor to compensate. 20 armor for example gives a larger reduction against physical damage than 10%, 40 armor even more so. % reduction cannot be penetrated however and works against true damage. But these numbers can be tweaked as needed.

Q: Twin Bite | Cooldown 9/8/7/6/5 Shyvana's next basic attack hits furiously with both her Dragon Gauntlets, striking twice. The second hit deals 60/70/80/90/100% of her total attack damage. Both hits can proc on hit effects and lifesteal. Both hits crit(or do not crit) together. This resets Shyvana's auto attack timer.

During Dragon's Descent: This spell cleaves all targets near the primary target.

VISUAL UPDATE: Twin Bite in human form is mostly fine as it is. However, in Dragon Form it should have more of a visual effect for readability purposes and so our dragon can inspire a little more 'awe'. Perhaps a claw-like effect in the air and a small splash of flame if they are currently affected by her W or E.

Reasoning: All that has changed is that the Q nerfs from Devourer era were partially reverted, but not fully so that we can power budget into other parts of her kit. Changing 40-100% to 60-100%.

W: Burnout | Cooldown 12 Shyvana superheats her body and fire burns out from her in a torrent, dealing damage to all nearby enemies and increasing her movement speed. Targets affected by Burnout will take 5/8/11.25/14.25/17.5+5%AD/2.5%AP magic damage per quarter second while in the effect. Shyvana's basic attacks against affected targets will deal a bonus 5/8/11.25/14.25/17.5+5%AD/2.5%AP magic damage on hit. During Burnout, Shyvana's movement speed will be increased by 30/35/40/45/50% decaying over it's duration. Burnout lasts for 3 seconds, but basic attacks increase the duration by 1 second up to a maximum total duration of 7 seconds.

During Dragon's Descent: Shyvana also scorches the earth where she walks, leaving a trail of fire for 5 seconds that continually deals the same magic damage per second to enemies that pass over it.

VISUAL UPDATE: The flames both on around Shyvana and on the ground in her 'path of devastation' need to be more impressive. It's a damn half dragon, it needs to feel like she is burning everything in her path.

Reasoning: Mostly unchanged, bonus damage to monsters was removed, the nerfs revert on her Q and other strengths in her kit will compensate her. Her total clear might still slow down a little, but we are adding more overall power so that is fine. A champion's identity shouldn't be "They farm fast then beat you with their gold advantage". The faster ticks on burnout are well... for comfort, almost all DoT abilities should be moving towards this anyway. She will still have fast clear, and I have plans you will see later on that may still make her somewhat a gold advantage champion, but it will be more fun ;D and dragony.

E: Flame Breath | Cooldown 12/11/10/9/8 | Range 925 Shyvana channels the fire in her blood and unleashes a burst of fire in a straight line. On impact with an enemy champion it deals 40/75/110/145/180+70%AP/35% AD as magic damage. This marks the target for 5 seconds, basic attacks against marked targets deal 1/1.5/2/2.5/3% of the targets maximum HP as magic damage. This ability deals it's damage to minions and monsters it passes through, marking them. But stops at the first champion hit.

During Dragon's Descent: Shyvana spews forth a plume of fire in a cone in front of her, with slightly longer range(1000) which deals the base damage of the ability but also ignites all targets caught in her flame, burning them for an additional 20/30/40/50/60+10%AD/5%AP over 3 seconds. No longer stops at the first champion hit.

VISUAL UPDATE: Now will be a conical plume of fire in dragon form, rather than just 5 of her basic projectiles. Base form projectile will now fizzle at max range rather than just awkwardly vanish. Targets ignited by Flame Breath will appear to be on fire during the DoT.

Reasoning: This is a nerf and buff. The base damage on Flame Breath is being nerfed, but an AD scaling is added, so if not buying AD the damage is about the same. Also the early game dueling power was nerfed by a lot(1.5% max HP damage) the max rank damage was buffed a little(.5%). This will make her less overbearing to fight in the jungle early game, but along with the added AD scaling will help her scale better late game. The ability also now may only hit one champion while in human form, though it will still strike multiple monsters/minions. In dragon form it has now become one of her strongest abilities, making a dragon breathing fire more impactful. It gets it's base damage boosted to original values plus even more AD and AP scaling through the burn, as well as hitting in AoE and gaining range. Finally! A reward for turning into a dragon beyond AoE and resistances! Because of the AD scaling, in both human and dragon form this ability will deal slightly more total damage on impact, though only to one champion in human form, making it good for trading in top lane, eh eh? ;D But with the %HP damage lowered early game it will be less OP early game for jungle clear and jungle dueling, this helps compensate the buff to her Q. Both will make buying AD on her a little more effective as her Q scales slightly better in early levels and her E now has scaling for AD. To give her more options than just building On Hit damage or On Hit tank. By making it flat out stronger in dragon form, it now is an impressive ability that actually feels impactful.

R: Dragon's Descent | Requires 100 Fury | No Cooldown | Range 1000 | Width 175 Passive Fury: While in human form, Shyvana passively generates Fury every second. In both forms, her basic attacks also each generate 2 Fury. Passive Fury Generation 1/1.5/2 per second.

Active Transformation: Shyvana transforms into a dragon and dashes to the target location, carrying all enemies she runs through towards her destination and dealing 150/250/350+70%AP Magic damage to them. If she lands directly on top of an enemy it also deals an additional 30/40/50+10%Bonus AD in physical damage and stuns them for .5 seconds. Shyvana becomes Unstoppable during her leap, but will suffer any Crowd Control that hits her at the end of the leap instead.

During her transformation Shyvana gains Bonus Attack Range(175) and her passive damage reduction is maxed out until it ends.

VISUAL UPDATE: Mostly unchanged other than model and texture updates. Perhaps make the transformation a bit more epic looking.

Reasoning: The base damage was nerfed, even if you land directly on the target. Though a very brief stun was added if you land directly on them, the damage was made hybrid to match her hybrid damage design, and she is now unstoppable during the leap just like Sion, Vi, Kled, Hecarim, Malphite, Nocturne and others. Other than that it remains unchanged. Rewarding her for landing directly on the target with a brief stun and bonus physical damage, gives more incentive to use this to engage, rather than just run away. Between this and her new passive, Shyvana players might be more hesitant to leap over a wall every time trouble nears. However, they aren't prevented from doing so, it is just more rewarding now to engage with dragon form. And now that it is unstoppable, it is more reliable for that.

TOO LONG DIDN'T READ Passive: % Reduction is stronger than resistances, but it is low when her fury is low. Makes her weak right after her ult transformation ends, strong at full fury and during ult transformation.

Q: Buffed to nearly pre-devourer levels, visuals updated.

W: Unchanged other than tick rate and visuals.

E: AD ratio added, now hits only one champion in human form, on impact damage buffed, dragon form adds burn, %HP lowered early game, barely higher max rank. Visuals updated.

R: Now unstoppable, damage nerfed especially if not landing directly on the target, damage made hybrid, tiny stun added if landing directly on target.

Potential Dragon Minigame I considered an idea, though I don't know how reasonable it would be, that would make Shyvana more focused on counter jungling, which is one of her purposes. But I also wouldn't want to dampen her ability to play top again someday. But I thought of a "Dragon's Loot" or "Dragon's Stash" minigame. Where taking enemy jungle camps or killing an enemy who has 'smite' in their own jungle, gives Shyvana a small amount of bonus gold. And also has a counter for how much gold she has 'denied' the enemy jungler, or how much bonus gold she got from their camps. But... I didn't know how to fit it in. this is the fun little idea I had to make her still about gold advantage. Because you know... dragons... gold... Thoughts?

Summary This rework is focused on making Shyvana's ult a bit more impactful and her fury more interactive, so that she will be wiser how she uses them in game instead of just burning her ult on cooldown for the escape leap. It rewards good use of her ult, and rewards landing her E as it now will deal slightly more damage on impact. It also reverts the awful Q nerfs that were to counteract Devourer, an item that no longer exists. In exchange her ult damage will be slightly lower, her % HP damage will be lower early game, and her tankiness will be weaker when she is low on fury. It gives her windows of strength and weakness. It makes using her ult as an escape a last ditch option. And overall makes her a bit more interactive of a champion.

Will it make her imbalanced? Probably, like any rework or new champion, she would likely experience a phase of being too strong or too weak. This will be ironed out in tuning numbers.

Do you like the idea? Do you dislike it? Do you have additions or your own ideas? Comment below! I am interested in having a conversation about this. Any thoughts are welcome, just keep it civil and too the point.

43 Comments

Limrick5 votes

Name it Dragon's Booty ;)

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Looks good. I'm no expert at Shyv (proved becuase I didn't know about AAs lengthening burnout wasn't a buff till I read her current abilities more closely just now to compare. XD), but this looks fair and no more overbearing than say a Xin Xhao barreling into your team.

Just more dragon.

Becuase of her innate damage reduction, she has a natural gold advantage from lvl 1. To make it more fair (becuase old Yorick is the only champ I knew with innate damage reduction) we could extend your minigame so the enemy can play. :D

Whenever you get killed, whoever landed the killing blow gets half the gold in your stash and your stash gets reset. This gives your enemy jungler a change to get back in the game with some of the gold you denied them. (Reminiscent of slaying the dragon in popular stories)

But the fun part for you is that innate greed could make people scramble for that gold you have carrying around. It would make it easier for you to bait out fights by waving a bag of gold in front of their face. ;)

PapaGreg213 votes

It's a good start but stays too close to her original kit and doesn't address her core weaknesses. She is an auto attack champ that has problems sticking to targets to get these autos off and is easily kited. She has very poor ganking potential. Her q is boring and does little damage early game making her nonexistent in top lane as you would never level it first. Her greatest strength is early game jungle clear (after 5 minutes every jungler clears pretty fast) which just means she'll get a few hundred gold more than another champ. This strength is meaningless after that point where other champs can provide better team fighting and ganking. Her ultimate is incredibly easy to interrupt as well as confusing with the seemingly narrow hitbox and the lack of a description that it is intended to fly over champions after a certain distance knocked back (you did address some of that.)

In my opinion she should have flame breath completely changed up. Take away all the percentage health aspect and make it higher damage when striking a champion (or when laning you can actually use it to last hit). If an enemy is marked, make landing twin bite to slow the enemy and allow her to stick to them better as well as gank efficiently. That way if she is in dragon form into a team fight she can also mark and slow multiple people (like hitting a randuin's active in a crowd.) This will allow her to actually be able to build normal juggernaut items without having to focus on movement and cc when buying.

I see your posts though and agree with you that she isn't in a good spot and needs some help.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Good morning. I am glad you read it through and your input is appreciated.

Making her E on impact deal more damage, which it does now because of the AD scaling, means she can poke in lane and jungle more easily. This helps her a bit against ranged foes. What is more, buffing the AD scaling by 20% on her Q early game is rather big for trading in jungle/lane, in fact both are a direct buff to her top lane and her dueling power.

Adding the AD scaling to her E, buffing the early AD scaling on her Q, the .5% max health damage(for shredding tanks and other bruisers) increase at rank 5 and adding a small AD scaling on her R, making her dragon form E do just straight up more damage than it currently does, helps her scale into late game, fixing the problem that she is just a gold gen champion at the moment.

The new passive will scale well into late game, and counters penetration, true damage, turret damage and so forth. Right now if she dives an inhib tower her armor is shredded, if darius applies black cleaver and his E you are screwed, you cannot shred damage reduction however.

Her ult gaining CC, even though minor, and becoming unstoppable, are HUGE buffs to her ganking power and late game. She already is super fast with her W. Her problem is at the moment her ganks are bad and late game she is countered by a tiny bit of CC and brings none of her own CC. Giving her ult a .5 second stun is enough to force a flash in a gank or possibly round up a kill, late game it gives her a dueling tool for a small interruption and a team fight tool. Making it unstoppable means the first Caitlyn trap or Veigar stun you pass over doesn't stop you in your tracks and make you useless.

In exchange for these buffs that make her ganking power and late game better. The damage reduction on her passive has counterplay, and is weaker initially than Armor and MR. Her E lost some early game tank/bruiser shredding and DPS power. Her W lose 20% bonus damage to monsters meaning if she wants a gold advantage she has to work for it. And her ult lost some of it's damage. To keep her balance in check.

Mistress Shyvana2 votes

**EDIT:Disregard this comment I was really tired and didn't have my thoughts together. Will make an updated post after work. **

I'm liking it, it keeps her mostly the same so is who enjoy playing her as is get to keep mostly the same thing but with the annoyances fixed. Also I'm 100% for the visual updates. Her base skin is at the same time great and horrible.

Overall 8/10

InHaruhiWeTrust2 votes

I'm split about a shyvana rework. on one side i personally want to see some more drastic changes, and on the other side i don't wanna see another champ taken away from the people who already love her the way she is now. the reason i personally want too see her changed more is because the reason i really really like shyv is because of her theme "half dragon/half human)(which is really badass). the reason i don't main her is because her game-play all but completely fails to fulfill that theme IMO. Her kit is almost completely dependent around attack speed. i mean she's pretty much a boxer champ that turns into a dragon sometimes. http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lysb19Y8Zn1r9zabzo1_400.gif I personally want her to FEEL like a dragon and not like "rock em sock em dragons edition". I already made a post on what i personally want from her rework so i won't post it here, but if anyone is interested then here is the link. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/UHGk8Jb7-idea-for-shyvana-rework-thoughtfeedback-is-appreciated-xd

disclaimer* my post contains quite drastic changes to her kit, so proceed with cation if you are easily triggered. disclaimer* downvoting WILL hurt my feeling so in order to put you in a better mood before visiting my post here is some adorable shyvana fan art. https://img.ifcdn.com/images/8c52046e06e6f8209c5fa51a596bce54fbe5281f81ddfbf9c4bc371fc646c3f1_1.jpg http://orig01.deviantart.net/4080/f/2014/169/e/f/i_will_dance_in_their_ashes____by_ptcrow-d7mvqh7.jpg

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Your post was nice. I like her being punchy. She is a half dragon so in human form the savagery fits to me. ^^

I have often though perfaps we need another dragon. Not a half dragon. Not a celestial dragon. Just a dragon.

InHaruhiWeTrust2 votes

This is my dilemma lol we will never have another half dragon, and it's very unlikely that we will have a true dragon either, because her ult form is supposed to fill that character design niche. obviously i could be wrong, but i think it's very likely that i'm not(take grains of salt as needed). it's just that her entire kit could be put on another champ and work with several different themes(aside from the turning into a dragon part). like i said i don't want shyvana mains to lose their champ, but at the same time she is the only half-dragon we will ever get in this game and it seems a total waste to give her a kit that in no way makes use a really cool and unique theme that has a TON of potential. and like i said, her whole kit or parts of it could easily be put on a different champ.

Forhonor3212 votes

Passive: like it. Kinda better than current one but has it's ups and downs.

Q: Highly approve! This is honestly what Riot should have done after they removed devourer after she got nerfed.

W: Agree with the improved damage ticking but not too sure about the bonus damage to monsters removed. I mean, OK, you do state that the buffs to other parts of her kit will compensate but I'm still not too sure.

E: Interesting. Really like the feel of it in dragon form though range in it may be a little too high.

R: YESSSS! MAKE IT UNSTOPPABLE AND ACTUALLY CARRY THEM! also hopefully get that hit box finally fixed.

Minigame: ....I'm not in favor for this. I mean, yes it does convey the whole dragon's greed thing and plays to her counter jungling aspect but I have two reasons against this. 1. I feel like it goes against her character a bit and 2. Gaining that bonus gold kinda puts the other jungler at a disadvantage if a good Shyv player can counter jungle extremely well. In small amounts it might not mean anything but combine you could actually gain a huge advantage at getting items earlier than the opponents.

Overall: I'm in full support of this (except the minigame).

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Appreciate the input. The minigame was iffy. That is why I put up a poll. Thanks!

Cosmic Star2 votes

I really like the rework, I think Aatrox and Shyvana could get a rework at the same time since they are ''similar'' and don't need HUGE changes (maybe Aatrox need a bigger update but not a lot bigger then this one) UP-VOTED

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] !!

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Sounds good to me!

Cosmic Star1 votes

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Sire Hippington2 votes

Overall good changes (not a fan of the minigame though, and her beeing all about gold advantages is the thing i hate the most about her current state, and i really don't like gold generateing passives)

But there are something that should get noted: Q's CD gets reduced on attack, which is a rather important mechanic which isn't noted in your Q, and i asume you want to keep it.

It also would be a good idea to Reduce her W cd alot (like 5 sec), but have it start after it runs out rather than at the start. Right now, getting kited/peeled is double punishing as you not only can't deal damage but also loose alot uptime on your only no-ult mobillity, which makes it even easier to further kit you. Right now, if you use W and can't get an AA of within the first 3 sec, you have 9(4.2 with 40%cdr) sec cd, if you can get the full duration you have 5(0.2 with 40%cdr) sec cd. With the suggested cd change, it would be 5(3 with 40%cdr) in both cases. This would help her in teamfights where cc might stop her from refreshing the duration while makeing her a bit less powerfull in extendet duels where´she could reach 100% uptime with cdr.

I'd also love to see one of three possible buffs for her to further help her vs getting kitted 24/7:

  • Give her 15/20/25% Tenacity duering dragon form

  • Give her 15/25/35% slow reduceing duering W in Dragonform

  • Give her Q a brief Slow similar to Trundles Q

With less E damage early on and no bonusdamage to monsters(which is the most important change imo, as it frees up power for her kit and atleast provides a chance for lane-shy to return), i think there is room for some more, as the Q buff isn't big by any means, neither is the E lategame-buff and the rest is mostly(needed) QoL stuff.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

It should be noted. That while this seems like an overall buff. Removing her bonus damage to monsters will make her gold advantage much narrower, meaning even if her kit deals more damage, she will not have an item advantage as early. Also nerfs to her %HP damage early game is rather huge on her dueling power. Then nerf to her ult damage is minor, and mostly is just incentive to land it directly on an enemy, and to help counteract it being unstoppable. She still will experience the crowd control that hits her during her ult, but only once she lands. This way that Ashe ult or Veigar stun wasn't wasted, but she still gets her full leap in.

Raiku Kawisa5 votes

This seems like a very nice way to make Shyvana relevant. She keeps her core theme, but she can do more without having to have a crazy gold lead. Not sure if It would be enough to solve her problem of 'kite her til she dies' but having a mini stun gives you a moment to guarantee some damage.

Niyumi1 votes

Shyvana doesn't need buffs. If she catches up to you, she does assassin level damage, all while passively being one of the tankiest champs in the game. Combine that with her Q doing double on-hits, she's absurd. If any of this were to happen, she'd need to entirely lose her passive, and get something new that has some form of counterplay other than go nowhere near her (as it is currently). Maybe make her gain tank stats as she fights, forcing her to build it up rather than just passively be tanky, then freeze the bonuses and add an additional, static bonus when she ults.

But no, I hope this never happens. Too much of a buff to an already absurd champion. Remember Illaoi? Yeah, she was good in a good player's hands, and now she's just absurd after being needlessly buffed.

Raiku Kawisa2 votes

You don't play Shyvana do you? Yes, a good Shyvana is the fire-breathing monster that will just melt your HP while being tanky ONLY if she has an item advantage. If Shyvana is not ahead she is behind. Once Shyvana falls behind she is useless. She needs both damage items and tank items to have a serious impact which requires for her to have a gold advantage on the enemy team.

What these changes will do is lessen Shyvana's impact on the early game. Her E damage as well as the E debuff dmg is lowered and will only hit a single target in Human Form, her ult's damage is lowered. Also her W dealing 50% extra damage to monsters is removed which will slow Shyvana's clear speed by a decent bit.

In return Shyvana gets a little bit of scaling back to the early levels of her Q, but given she loses damage on her most impact source of damage, her %HP E Debuff, this will not have much of an impact.

The changes to her E and her Ult are good to make landing Shyvana's ult an actual choice. Right now Shyvana uses her ult for trying to chase down the enemy, or more than likely, as a quick escape over the wall because its too unreliable for much else. With these changes, you actually have a good reason to use your ult aggressively. Your E regains its ability to hit multiple people and applies a DoT and if you land on an enemy you are rewarded with a bit of extra damage and a short stun. (Hello, a dragon just landed on your face, I would be stunned too)

Also you mentioned for Shyvana to get more tanky as she fights. That is exactly what the Fury passive would do in these changes. She starts at a base value that increases with how much Fury she has. This also means as soon as her dragon form runs out she is back to not having so much reduction.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

These are actually not buffs.

What she gains: Rank 5 % HP damage by .5% per hit Very tiny stun and unstoppable status on ult(still suffers CC at the end) Damage reduction that is weaker than her current armor/MR and has counterplay, but cannot be penetrated E on impact damage is buffed Q early damage is buffed

What she loses: Her 20% bonus damage to monsters, which is HUGE 1.5% max HP damage PER hit at rank 1 Her new damage reduction isn't as permanent as her current armor and magic resist Her new damage reduction can be counterplayed and taken advantage of Loses 75 damage on her rank 3 ult if she ults over you late game

This is huge, it means she will no longer just get a free gold advantage all game because of how fast she kills camps, she will have to work for items. Less items=less power. Losing early game DPS from her %HP damage will decrease her ability to solo dragon and reduce her in jungle dueling power. Her damage reduction now has a lot fo counterplay, if she is pre-level6 or just ulted recently she is actually quite squish compared to current Shyvana. Late game, at full fury/dragon form, she is only barely tankier against penetration, still not as tanky if they didn't buy pen.

In exchange I have made her useful when she is on your team, her interruptible ultimate and lack of CC means when you have a Shyvana on your team late game, 9 times out of 10 you can count on her ulting into a fight only to be stopped by a front line CC not even intended for her, and to then die in .5 seconds because she has no CC/leap after that. She also gained some poke power with her E to counter ranged champions without directly buffing her overall power too much. She gained some dragon form E power to compensate some of the lost damage on her other abilities(her Q still does the same damage by late game) and she gained AD scalings so she can scale into late game, as at the moment she is only good right at the early game and somewhat mid game if she can powerfarm a gold advantage.

I've turned her into more than an AFK farmer, and made her more reliable. But removed some of her atrociously strong dueling power in exchange.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

The passive change I like but everything else is just number tweaks aside from the short stun on her ult. It's not a rework as it doesn't change her inherent gameplay which is what a rework for her would need to do and that she's going to eventually need since she's currently generic stat check fighter 56.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

I highly doubt Riot plans on removing every beat-em-in-the-face simple design. I mean they are literally leaving Garen and Warwick as "noob champions". Eventually they will run out of gimmicks, minigames and terrain based/collision mechanics. This rework is designed to make her a healthier design for her players, enemy players and game balance. While rewarding her for good play with higher damages and stun for landing skillshots. Punishing her for bad play on her new passive. Reducing her early dueling power. Increasing early poke. Increasing usefulness late game and letting her scale with items so if she DOES work for a gold advantage she actually gets something out of it other than some mid game dueling and split pushing power.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Warwick is being reworked as we speak and Garen isn't a generic fighter like Shyvana is as he has unique skills and contributions to his team. Shyvana, Irelia, Jax, Xin Zhao and Olaf are part of a group of fighters that are all about being balls of stats where one is only picked over another if they have better stats.

Shyvana is in fact the WORST offender for being a ball of stats and none of your tweaks change any of that, it's only when she can abuse a broken item that she gets used because she's just an auto attacking fighter and everything in her kit is just to facilitate this, even her ult is just there for the gap closer with everything else about it being an after thought.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Garen is a walking ball of stats who does and soaks damage. His only tool is a silence. Warwick is being reworked into a ball of stats. Riot already said he is being kept "Simple so new players can pick him up and do well." They said something similar about Garen and Ashe.

Irelia is fine and has a huge variety in gameplay... she has dash mechanics, a stun, a skill shot heal ult...

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

By the way. ANYBODY who lacks CC, team auras, shields, heals, buffs, debuffs. Etc. Is just a "Walking ball of stats who contribute nothing to the team but damage and/or tankiness"

Worst offenders? Most ADCs a few assassins, some mages, most Juggernauts and a lot of divers and fighters. That is their purpose, to bring damage and/or damage soak...

Katarina certainly doesn't provide any team "tools"

Neither really does Garen other than his Q.

Neither does Draven other than a small knock aside.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Oh. And the reason she needs an "Item to abuse" is because she doesn't have AD scalings. So she relies on "On-Hit" items. Thus why I added AD scaling to her abilities.

But even then. This entire game is about "Abusing items" the game is won by getting a gold and objective advantage so you can get better items, stats and positioning than your enemies. So that applies to everyone.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Darius, Shyvana, Garen, Illoai, Udyr, Olaf, Nasus, Mundo, Warwick all have.

A spell to deal more AoE damage(except WW). Garen spin, Darius spin, Udyr phoenix, Olaf axe, Shyvana flame, Illoai tentacles, Nasus flame, Mundo flame.

A way to make themselves passively tankier. Shyvana passive+ult, Garen passive and W, Darius Q heal, Udyr Turtle Stance, Olaf AS low HP and lifesteal, Illoai tentacle heal, Mundo passive and ult, Nasus passive and ult, WW passive and Q.

A way to deal a single target burst. Shyvana Q, Garen Q, Darius W? Illoai W, Olaf thunder thing, Udyr Tiger, Warwick Q, Nasus Q, Mundo Q.

A way to increase their general DPS. Darius passive and armor pen, Garen Spin, Shyvana W and R, Warwick Attack Speed, Olaf AS low HP and? Nasus Spirit Fire, Illoai Spirit rip thing, Udyr Tiger and Pheonix and Passive, Mundo Masochism.

All of them balance minor mobility and CC spells. Darius pull and slow, Garen silence and movespeed slow cleanse, Nasus Wither, Shyvana Movespeed ult push and ult leap, Olaf Ultimate and axes, Illoai slow and spirit pull, Udyr bear and passive movespeed and stun, Warwick low HP movespeed and Ult, Mundo movespeed and cleavers.

You cannot criticise the design philosophy of one without hitting them all. All are trash without core items. All are nearly unstoppable with core items. All are fairly simple "stat sticks" with some minor mechanics.

Throw in there Trundle and a Skarner and a few others as well.

Kled Man Walking1 votes

have you considered making her e similar to yorick's? instead of having it mark the opponent for bonus damage on er next auto, it could instead haste shyvana while walking towards them

i haven't played shyv since season four but this seems a little more fitting for her kit imo

Raiku Kawisa3 votes

That would devestate Shyvana. That bonus damage is how Shyvana actually does dmg. Replacing that with a haste would be a horrible nerf.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Have to agree with Raiku. Her bonus damage mark is one of her best assets. Where as her movement speed is already 350 plus 30-50% from passive. With my standard on hit tank build I am somewhere around 425-435 movespeed without W. With it I am closer to 5??

Kled Man Walking2 votes

whelp that's what happens when i try to make suggestions without knowing the champion

Raiku Kawisa2 votes

A move speed bonus would be nice, but not at the cost of her primary damage. Plus thats the main purpose of her W.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Nah. It's cool. Thank you for partaking in the discussion!

Kled Man Walking1 votes

no prob pal

Ahristocats1 votes

i don't have the time to read everything, but i just want to point out that shyvana doesn't have a fantaisy

edit: tl dr: her E sucks

Raiku Kawisa3 votes

This is Shyvana is a HALF Dragon. I do agree that they dragon half is underrepresented in her playstyle, but changing Shyvana so drastically from her in-your-face auto attacking champion to a firebreathing/mage thing would piss off a lot of people who like her play style.

Ahristocats1 votes

i didn't say that you should change her to a mage LOL and i agree that she is a half dragon, the whole point is that fire isn't used well (her E). it should be an AOE nuke or something like, or a fire dot or anything but a debuff and 200 magic damage.

Cryo001 votes

If the Shyvana buys item 3046 won't that make her take almost 30% less damage against one champion ? That seems too strong

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

No. Just like Garen's 30% damage reduction W, it doesn't stack like that.

Cryo001 votes

Ah, my bad then.

ChaosThief1 votes

Personally... I disagree with the passive change. It seems like it rewards aggressive play, meaning if she went laning it would be a binary experience, and jungling it would hardly do anything.

shyv1 votes

shyvana visual update would be nice but a gameplay update I really don't want. especially with minigames.

no offence, they're cool ideas, but no thanks

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

I appreciate the feedback anyway! ^_^ nice name btw.

Aww Jeez1 votes

I really don't feel this passive change is very interactive at all. Sure it's got literally a binary interaction as opposed to the current passive's no interaction at all, but you're not gonna actively decision make around this passive in almost any situation.

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