We should talk more about champion identities

Ghiefelstein··27 votes·2,345 views

Identity is what gives champions a place in the game with unique strengths and weaknesses. It is one of the driving forces behind changes in the game. It made Maokai more protective, LeBlanc more deceiving and Soraka the ultimate healer. But players often only get to see the end results without discussion in an earlier stadium. Both Riot and players should talk more about the identity of champions.

A change can be very disappointing and surprising if you as a player had a different direction in mind. Maybe you wanted Cassiopeia to melt people with poison, or more cc on Skarner or lower cooldowns on Sona. By the time you hear about a change, it is probably too late. So how about writing what you love about your favorite champion now? And Riot could talk about their champions a bit more too. Not because they will get changes next patch, but because players deserve to know what the vision is for a champion.

Now some champions already have great discussion going on (Ashe for example). But many others could use some love. My favorite champion was changed in a direction that I didn't like. That change came unexpected and without much discussion about identity. Make sure that Riot knows what you love about for example Hecarim, Brand or Nunu. When their inevitable changes come, it is too late.

I hope Riot encourages these discussions. You must have a vision for each champion, see if that aligns with what players think. Educate us so we know what to expect. You already asked for Poppy's identity and experimented with Nocturne's ult on the PBE. Do more things like that. Talk about Malzahar or Rammus, not because they will be changed soon, but to know what is core about them. That way players are not as surprised if they ever get changed.

Thank you for reading and have a wonderful day!

29 Comments

SerBlaise7 votes

Diana Unrelenting fighter who moves in an almost dance-like fashion as she dashes across the battlefield.

Khazix Assassin who can jump in and out of fights with multiple tools, capable of blowing carries up, given the proper circumstances.

Teemo How can evil actually be this cute? amirte?

Vayne Dance-like play style who can chase you down and pin you down with an array of tools

Hecarim Best ganks; capable of of speeding into fights and then speeding out, with excellent aoe initiation. Speed SPEED SPEED

Shen Taunts, has survivabilty, super team oriented. Can turn fights.

chaetopterus7 votes

Zyra (especially when played mid) trapping the enemy and just watching your plants tearing them apart... maybe sadistic, but definitely fun. Malzahar incredible damage and an ult that makes you ignore the laws of fairplay. Janna getting kitet by her is like trying to catch the wind

cshakes4 votes

Janna Stops any engage. Has a wind shield that gives AD. Leona Jumps on you and calls the power of the Sun to CC lock you for the rest of eternity. Laughs at your pitiful "damage". MonkeyKing Stealths to get into position, then throws you up in the air as Spin2Win 2.0 happens. (Should probably shout "Ionia!" while spinning?) Shyvana Throws around fireballs, turns into a freakin' dragon.

JCross4 votes

I think people are still confused on the whole "identity" discussion, which is less what a champion does in the game, and more what makes that champion a unique character in the world of Runeterra (which leads to the creation of what they do in the game). So for example:

Rengar is a champion that is characterized as the ultimate hunter. This is his identity, and allows champion designers to bring up ideas for abilities that stay true to it. So looking at Rengar, things like his passive, which allows him to hide in a bush and jump out at enemies, is a practical and fun mechanic that is unique to Rengar and stays true to his ultimate hunter identity. All of his other abilities also compliment this theme, and make Rengar a well-designed and unique identity within Runeterra and on the Rift.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Well-designed from a lore->gameplay relationship, true.

I'm not entirely sure whether this is true for the context of the game's overall health, though.

JCross1 votes

Well that's where the tweaks come in. Things like raw numbers, or changes like increasing the range indicator on his ult or being visible from the start of his jump instead of the end of it, or even indirect changes like items or champions that interact with Rengar in one way or another. But as far as identity goes, he has his down.

Ghiefelstein2 votes

Exactly. In the short term you can always tweak numbers or mechanics to keep a champion balanced. But in the long term Rengar should feel like the ultimate hunter.

Now there is a reason to keep talking about Rengar's identity. There are some other hunters (Khazix, Nidalee) and Rengar needs to stay different from them. So as a Rengar fan you can still express what makes him unique. Then Riot can consider that the next time they do balance changes to Rengar.

SerBlaise2 votes

TBH, I'm less worried about Riot changing the lore of my favorite champs (Diana) and more concerned with what aspects of their gameplay they find core. I enjoy the lore but I am more concerned with the champion I play in game being enjoyable.

Ghiefelstein1 votes

So what is Diana for you? A bruiser or an assassin? What aspects of Diana's gameplay do YOU find core? Diana

SerBlaise1 votes

Actually I can see her as either. Here is a copy/paste from a post I made from a while back in an IronStylus Thread:

  1. Her mechanics as is are gorgeous. Crescent strike, Moonsilver blade, Moon fall, lunar rush....All of these mechanics are cool and awesome to pull off in game. They feel right. The current QWER-R combo (while perhaps lacking in sophistication) makes diana's kit feel dance-like. She gracefully dashes into the fight and commands the stage. Personally, I think that any kit that removes the 'dance' from Diana will ruin her. Specifically kits that focus too much on Auto attacking (Bruiser/fighter kits, I'm looking at you). Hacking away with your blade is just not as fun.

  2. She currently has the mobility to be relevant in the current meta. While not true pre-lvl 6, I really like the advanced mobility her ult currently grants her. She can initiate fights and she can escape to creeps over walls. Whether bruiser or assassin, this mobility HAS to stay.

  3. She has the ability to be a 100-0 Assassin OR a tanky team suction machine. She can serve as a good wombo-combo champ AND a setup for team fights. This is SO key to a good champion. Too many champions lack individual play or teamfighting ability. To be a viable pick you need to have that dual capability. But she also has to choose which one to do. If she suctions the enemy team, she is probably not going to be able to 100-0 the carries as she's in the thick of it. But if she goes for the backline, she is ignoring the full effect of her wombo.

Those are my main points. I think you can fulfill these in EITHER a fighter build OR an assassin build. But it has to be one or the other. I honestly could be happy with just one, as long as it stays true to the three above points. So here are two potential builds.

Brusier/Fighter Diana:

Passive: Current Passive. Allowed to proc spell vamp. Gives her the sustain necessary to stay in fights. ALSO: Auto Attacking a unit with moonlight successively gives her attack speed and takes a few second off her ultimate cooldown. (could tie this passive to levleing R or E)

Q: Current Q. Its a good ability and defines her.

W: Allow her to reactivate the ability to burst her spheres and get her second shield after a few seconds. How many times does Diana have one stupid sphere left spinning and is just out of range to burst it, or its behind her or something?

E: Now Applies Moonlight. Auto Attacking a unit with moonlight successively gives her attack speed and takes a few second off her ultimate cooldown

R: Shorter cooldown, but does not reset on moonlight. You have to use the passive to reduce the cooldown, but if you use it properly, you can R again quickly.

This fits thematically with her determination once locked onto a target, and also with being a fighter: you ramp up damage and stay in the fight to do your maximum damage. I would not be opposed to swapping E and R, as long as R keeps the damage (Damageless ults are lame).

Assassin Diana:

Passive: Current passive. Allowed to proc spell vamp. Or lifesteal, but spell vamp makes more sense.

Q current Q.

W Instead of providing a shield, each orb when detonated will knock the target away from Diana a small amount (think mao knockback) and gives her a short damage reduction. This will allow her to CS in lane while removing the awkward assaasin-with-a-shield thing. It also creates some interesting gameplay with her E/R.

E Current E, but applies moonlight.

REMagic421 votes

^This guy has some truth in his words.

But you should note that Game Health always has to take precedence over champions' identity, and only in an ideal world, we'd get both. What Riot needs to do is find ways to preserve identity of the older champions while transforming them into something that is healthier to the game. A difficult task, and I am not sure if this can be achieved in a way that satisfies all the players.

The Red Warden4 votes

Gangplank A pirate who is hard to catch, has amazing luck, and a champion who breaks the mold by being able to switch between class identities based on his item choices

Galio A magic resistant brick wall with heavy movement control. Who acts like a sanctuary/guardian of his team

Nautilus You are a near inescapable monster that never lets go once you get a hold on someone

Yorick He summons monsters to fight for him, and he is impossible to outnumber in a battle. He turns a 1vs 1 into a 5v1 all by himself

Singed Poisons, Cardio, trollish, impossible to kill, and most important of all: laughs

Nagash4 votes

Hecarim Leading the charge; high impact initial charge, long term terror who overwhelms. Emphasis on undead identity, ambiguous morality, fading glory or tragic fall from grace.

Heimerdinger Siege gang commander; artillery positions that provide a safe zone from which to launch sorties.

JarvanIV The King; (I know he's a prince, but he's one of the few royalty we have) Courage; fighting bravely; large plays to change the game. When he goes; allies are trusted to follow.

Karthus The Lich: undead sorcerer who has lost his mortality in exchange for great bouts of arcane power. Emphasis on undead nature, souls, sacrifice for power

Malzahar The herald of doom; one who is blessed/damned by destiny to be a conduit for power; emphasis on either the conduit to power (via ult and w) or emphasis of a cultist via passive and visual ascetics.

Sejuani Warrior queen: similar to Hecarim and Jarvan, leads from the front; perseveres; emphasis on being mounted and large aoe presence.

Yorick ??? Lots of potential but dis unified identity the arch-type necromancer; who relies on zombie hordes (ala Azir?) or a tanky undead Igor like character, up front and with a grotesque appearance who draws strength form the perversity of his surrounding?

AmightyT3 votes

This thread needs to be stickied!

Mordekaiser A brutal Ironclad knight with a hulking mace, whose enemies cannot escape his grasp even in death.

Garen The dauntless vanguard charges headfirst into the fight to protect his comrades in battle, even in defeat, Garen readies himself for the next fight

Tryndamere Rage is one hell of an anesthetic

Gangplank Not a god nor a king, Simply a man with the will to fight

IAmNeverViable2 votes

Aatrox blood for power Chogath hp tank that get bigger and stronger with a lot of cc Darius early game bully that dunk people Gangplank the pirate that is brutal and execute people with his pistol. Kassadin the guy who teleport a lot Malzahar the guy who has minions to attack Mordekaiser the guy who chuck a lot of hp with pure power. Vladimir the sustain fighter

slippykitten2 votes

well herein lies the problem, riot designs a champion and then later changes the entirety of their identity because they didnt like their kit. I honestly dont care what they decide the identity of each champ to be but when they revamp their old work and take it in an entirely new direction, i feel cheated.

starwoof3 votes

So much this. Whenever I see a champion rework I groan, because somebody I like to play is going to get turned into something I may not necessarily like to play. It's worse when I spent money on them, and makes me start thinking 'bait and switch'.

REMagic421 votes

Most reworks are on champions that were designed in the early stages of the game, before Riot started taking a clear stance on how their game should evolve. This makes like 50% of the champions contradict their gameplay values, and they all need to be changed in some way or another to better fit the more "modern" philosophy. I much rather have a Sion that is healthy to the game than an AP Sion that shows old game play values and is not allowed to be strong since he could break the competitive scene. My favorite champion was changed to, Master Yi. Second favorite, Katarina, also got huge changes. Lee Sin has only been nerfed since literally forever to the level of unplayabilty unless you are godlike on him (which I am, fortunately). I am not a fan of all the changes that are going on, but I see them as necessary if we are talking Long-term development of this game. By long-term, I mean 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Nothing says that a video-game can't be played for a really long time, when it's continually being updated like Riot does. Every sport has started small, but some of them survived for centuries.

MrSlowDie2 votes

ohh.. you mean a DoT mage like Cassiopeia that raped into farming single target DPS mage ??

Drukyul2 votes

Equally important as identifying...identities...is coming up with just what makes a champion unique. If the identity is so similar to what another champion is already doing, what's the point?

Remlap12232 votes

Gangplank I mean, let's be honest, GP's kit is getting reworked because of its toxicity, but his kit makes him really feel like a pirate though. And who never wanted to be a pirate?

doubleguac2 votes

I'm a huge fan of Gangplank . He's one of my most played champs in ranked, and one of my favorite people to play in normals as well.

Riot is on this big kick right now where they are trying to emphasize clear, streamlined strengths and weaknesses. In a lot of ways, I think it's a great goal.

That being said, I don't think GP has one main strength and one clear weakness, and I don't think he should. He crits hard with his Q, but they shouldn't base a whole kit off that. He heals a lot with his oranges, but they shouldn't base a whole kit off that. He helps your team push really fast with his E, and he's got a global ult, but those shouldn't be the centerpiece of his new kit.

gangplank is and always has been a jack of all trades. His strength is that he's versatile and adaptable. His weakness is that he lacks the raw, focused power of a lot of more modern champions. And I hope Riot keeps him that way.

I don't think gangplank needs some earth shattering rework--he just needs to be tuned up here and there. You can focus his power a little (I think his E could be changed to a nunu-style buff that effects him plus one other target: it would allow them to add some oomph to it while trimming off some of his invisible power). But don't go crazy trying to streamline his entire kit into one clear build or playstyle--I don't play GP for streamlined power, I play him for versatility.

On a side note, something that I really hope Riot holds on to is his incredibly understated abilities/animations. Gangplank is just a dude with a pistol and a sword and a sack of oranges. He doesn't do anything crazy with them. He just stabs you with the sword, and shoots you with the pistol, and eats the oranges. He's not magical; he's not spinning a 300 pound sword in a circle around him like Garen, or throwing fire out of his hands, or calling sharks out of the ground, or jumping 20 feet in the air to dunk you with a massive axe. His animations and abilities are almost mundane, but in a way that's very charming, and stands out in a game so full of over-the-top champions/abilities. Gangplank is just a regular dude using regular weapons in a regular way.

MasticatingGrill2 votes

Soraka Used to have at least two good paths and clear rewards for diving near the front of a fight.

Soraka Now has one good path, one strategy and must stay near fights without much reward.

Soraka "I used to be a healer. Now I am a vampire with a fragile kit and my lore is dust underfoot."

Ghiefelstein1 votes

Lulu Yordle with a broad imagination who uses her whimsical magic to protect her friends.

That is what I thought half a year ago, but I never wrote it down. Now we know that Lulu is actually a selfish lane bully who uses her abilities primarily on herself. I hope Riot starts talking more about identity so players can make their opinions heard. You can do with champions whatever you want, but at least hear what the playerbase has to say about it.

Wingling1 votes

Warwick Since he's getting a rework soon, I really hope Riot sees this. I can't imagine them taking away his huge life drain or his on-hit build, but I mostly just hope he still keeps up with champions like Akali, Udyr, and Yi as one of the best post-teamfight monsters.

Dryditch1 votes

Since they totally fucked Sion's lifesteal, you can rest assured that Warwick's place as the Lifesteal Tank is well cemented in Riot's mind.

ZzEslIolZQ1 votes

No plz, don't talk about Malz. I'm not interested in him getting butchered or made so OP that he's picked every game.

Erijian1 votes

Garen Relatively low mobility fighter with low combat ranges who is more or less immune to poke damage, inflicts immense damage to anyone within his reach, and if forced out of a fight but not killed, will rapidly regenerate health to return to the fray for cleanup duty.

Ghiefelstein1 votes

Sounds like you were pretty happy with the passive changes :) Garen

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