EAT IT Kalista mains! Muah ha ha ha...
> Kalista Martial Poise (Passive) [tooltip no longer includes "and is 25% greater when lunging backward."]
Sorry... that was bad of me... the level of frustration playing against her drove me to it.
Visigoth44 votes
kite 
me 
now 
mother 
fucker 
. Finally I don't have to pull my hair out because she no longer gets to dash halfway across the rift for going backwards. Hopeful next they remove the leap from her Q. Because let's be honest, that bitch does not need more kiting ability than her passive, and then don't forget the retarded slow that can do a fuck ton of damage if she stacks it.
theragingnerd1 votes[{quoted}](name=Best Scyther KR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BN4sT4QU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-06T19:51:00.059+0000)
u can't kite nocturne he blows them upland fear and q and guess how dead they are alot
Auz the Ripper1 votesShe can easily kite him if he doesn't have and/or use Youmuu's and BotRK
theragingnerd1 votes[{quoted}](name=Auz the Ripper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BN4sT4QU,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-07T00:02:40.436+0000)
She can easily kite him if he doesn't have and/or use Youmuu's and BotRK
but who the hell doesn't run them on trynd
The Virgin Perry4 votesyou mean nocturne?
Rikari6 votesshe could never kite Yi lol
Celeste Benal1 votesI have indeed kited Yi with Kalista. Got a triple, too.
Rikari1 votesthen its a bad Yi. His Q+R cancel her entire kit.
TotalJerk2 votes can leapstun her and 's wither counters slows down her leaps horribly.
Yfrappefort8 votes[{quoted}](name=Best Scyther KR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BN4sT4QU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-06T19:51:00.059+0000)
Recently, as 
, I caught a 
facechecking a bush. "She's mine!" I thought. I almost punched my screen in frustration when I saw her STILL jumping away from my spin way too fast and kiting me to oblivion, cause yeah, this bitch don't care about being silenced.
This abomination should never have been ever released...
TotalJerk1 votesThat's called a counter.
Rew7111 votesI think that 
now counters her hard.
can also match up against her.
would be my pick for a support when against her.
would also be a fun match-up.
Celeste Benal2 votesOnce again, slows do not affect Kalista's bouncing around. Only movement speed. Kalista don't care about Ashe's slows.
Noam Braumsky2 votesA walks into a bar. There are no counters.
(Not my original joke, but I thought it would be a appropriate here.)
Rikari2 votesShe doesnt kite garen she gets caught in his orbit
stuartk1125 votesA lot of players think that she is fine right now, and has no reason to be nerfed. Quite sure a fair amount of these will be Kalista/ADC mains. Not many will actually propose any argument as to why she is fine in her current state.
Zenthon Prime35 votesShe's not fun to play against. That's reason enough to be nerfed. (EDIT: Read below for slightly more reasoning)
Frankly, she's up there with Yorick in that she never should have been released.
DemiluniS8 votescan you say what champion is fun to play against? unless it's some weak champ like bard ? I never saw someone saying "damn, that so fun to play against X"
Baron of Bread2 votesI believe this link belongs here.
Zenthon Prime13 votes
IMO, those 4 are the best.
I should correct myself as my wording was pretty bad: she's excessively infuriating to play against.
BetaDude4018 votes
Dodging all of those wonky skillshots is actually pretty fun, and you never feel like you died because of some bullshit reason, since Vel has so many weaknesses that are extremely easy to exploit
Old Man Teeto3 votesI laned against +
Post 6, Vel'koz would just play aggressively and get R'ed by Kalista if he was ever in danger. If we used anything on him, she would go apeshit on us. Was a lose/lose scenario. Kalista is an abomination.
Lucariolu1 votesweak champ like bard? lol, just because you can't use the champ doesnt mean it is bad or weak.
DemiluniS8 votesI'm not talking about playing the champ,, but playing against him. I dont find him threatening and I'd rather have him on the enemy team than my own. All he does is just running around doing stupid stuff and harming his team
ChaoticPinecone3 votes
come to mind as well
DemiluniS2 votesKennen/zyra/sona are absolutely fun to play against as melee champions. /s
ChaoticPinecone1 votesmaybe if youre playing an immoble melee champion like nasus and try to build damage. any melee champion with a gapcloser can kill all 3 pretty quickly after getting a 
or 
.
and i meant fun to play against in general - these champions arent known to be "wow. there was absolutely nothing i can do" if the matchup is evenly skilled.
DemiluniS1 votesdon't add conditions now to make it those champions look alright. All 3 were nerfed because of how abusive they are with their range against melee champions.
Strong engage still destroys kalista, pick a sivir or any other champion with hard engage, and just run her over.
I mean you can absolutely do something against self targeted poke from sona, or the plant damage of zyra, or the resourceless poke from kennen.
And if you can't do anything against kalista it sounds like your own personal problem with the champion, I don't find it extremely hard or opressive to play against her
Ariel the Cruel14 votesShe's not fun to play against.
She's not fun to play with.
~a support main.
Vincent Lucius2 votesHave you ever been supporting and had to explain to a Kalista "Okay, you need to hold off on the pull so that I can do what I'm trying to do, dear. I'm trying to CC/damage/peel for you but then you immobilized me and we both get caught."...
And then say "Okay." Like they're an Rammus and proceed to do the exact same stupid thing and get you killed?
Dies to Wolves7 votesShe's not fun to play against. That's reason enough to be nerfed. (EDIT: Read below for slightly more reasoning)
Frankly, she's up there with Yorick in that she never should have been released.
i'd argue she's worse than yorick in that regard
Anidan5 votesSay what you will about him, but at least Yorick has the common courtesy to fall off after the laning phase is over. Kalista doesn't even do that much for you, what with being an ADC and all.
I really, just completely, do not understand how she was released. I know people would have you argue "what champion is actually fun to play against?" as a counterpoint to her being completely unfun to be up against, but she is just so damn unfun that it's absurd. I remember being constantly pushed to my top tower by Yorick the entire laning phase (I told the jungler not to help since even together we'd have no real kill potential on him, so I took one for the team so he could help the other lanes more), and I still had more fun that game than any involving a Kalista.
JevelFaithful2 votesFrom what I've seen : "WE'll give her an infinitely stacking execute against objectives to see how it will turn out" and "We want to teach new players how to orbwalk, why not make a champion that has absurd mobility that plays a bit like orbwalking" and riot's overall structure. I think she is an experimenter's project that noone looked behind his back or that the guy defended his case well enough that "infinite constant godtier uncounterable kiting" appeared to have some form of counter in the rest of her kit.
ofart6 votesA lot of players think that she is fine right now, and has no reason to be nerfed. Quite sure a fair amount of these will be Kalista/ADC mains. Not many will actually propose any argument as to why she is fine in her current state.
I just did. If you look at her winrate, you'll also find late game is one of the worst of all ADCs. There is no ELO where she has a dominant winrate. She can be hard countered from champ. select with Annie, Morg, Malphite (AS slow) etc.. Frozen Heart destroys her damage and mobility. She has no damage steroids beyond Rend (which won't really be on par with a Jinx AoE crititng your team). Her laning is decent but not amazing. She is a mid-game champion above all. I can go on for days.
The people that want her nerfed only see her making cool plays and dashing a lot. They ignore her many weaknesses. I dare you to go play her and then make that same comment. I don't even main ADC but I can almost guarantee you will do better with the more popular ADCs like Jinx, Graves and Vayne. Just because a champion is frustrating to play against does not mean they're OP.
stuartk1110 votesI just did. If you look at her winrate, you'll also find late game is one of the worst of all ADCs. There is no ELO where she has a dominant winrate. She can be hard countered from champ. select with Annie, Morg, Malphite (AS slow) etc.. Frozen Heart destroys her damage and mobility. She has no damage steroids beyond Rend (which won't really be on par with a Jinx AoE crititng your team). Her laning is decent but not amazing. She is a mid-game champion above all. I can go on for days.
The people that want her nerfed only see her making cool plays and dashing a lot. They ignore her many weaknesses. I dare you to go play her and then make that same comment. I don't even main ADC but I can almost guarantee you will do better with the more popular ADCs like Jinx, Graves and Vayne. Just because a champion is frustrating to play against does not mean they're OP.
Where to start.
Firstly, Win Rates represent little about the power of the champion. They don't take into account the role of champion, or the strengths and weaknesses of the champion, and win rates can fluctuate strangely. Some champions can have high win rates due to mostly being played by those who actually focused on trying to learn them, while others that are more popular have a massive amount of new players trying to play them and dragging the win rate down. Can't base much of your evidence from it.
Secondly, your way of countering a champion is by counterpicking. Which is true for nearly every champion in the game, and attack speed slows affect every ADC to some degree. Kalista is hit as hard by it as you make it out to. Her passive on her W is great for amplifying your damage on your opponents, and her Rend applies descent damage and a pretty strong slow. She can kite even when affected by frozen heart with ease, especially when she has damage based on % of max hp of her target.
You didn't define her weaknesses from the weaknesses of most other champions, who also have more weaknesses on top of them. I have played her, and she isn't that difficult to play. I did it at 45 FPS. If you have any more weaknesses that you think make her not require a nerf, feel free to say them though. I'm sure there genuinely are some somewhere. But if you need to dig that deep for a single weakness that doesn't span across most of her entire role, then it still proves my point that she would require a nerf.
ofart1 votesWhere to start.
Firstly, Win Rates represent little about the power of the champion. They don't take into account the role of champion, or the strengths and weaknesses of the champion, and win rates can fluctuate strangely. Some champions can have high win rates due to mostly being played by those who actually focused on trying to learn them, while others that are more popular have a massive amount of new players trying to play them and dragging the win rate down. Can't base much of your evidence from it.
Secondly, your way of countering a champion is by counterpicking. Which is true for nearly every champion in the game, and attack speed slows affect every ADC to some degree. Kalista is hit as hard by it as you make it out to. Her passive on her W is great for amplifying your damage on your opponents, and her Rend applies descent damage and a pretty strong slow. She can kite even when affected by frozen heart with ease, especially when she has damage based on % of max hp of her target.
You didn't define her weaknesses from the weaknesses of most other champions, who also have more weaknesses on top of them. I have played her, and she isn't that difficult to play. I did it at 45 FPS. If you have any more weaknesses that you think make her not require a nerf, feel free to say them though. I'm sure there genuinely are some somewhere. But if you need to dig that deep for a single weakness that doesn't span across most of her entire role, then it still proves my point that she would require a nerf.
Lol, are you seriously implying that Kalista is affected by Frozen Heart equal to other ADCs or that other ADCs can be counterpicked via team-comp as hard as she can? Kalista needs to auto to have mobility. Let's see... fewer rend stacks (her main damage source), fewer jumps, fewer autos and she is short ranged enough to often be in the aura. Yup, it's definitely just as if you're a Jinx/Graves and someone got Frozen Heart.
You typed a lot and basically said nothing and addressed nothing with any facts whatsoever. Yeah, winrate isn't everything but it is certainly more objective looking at Plat+ winrates than seeing people whine about her jumping a lot.
stuartk116 votesLol, are you seriously implying that Kalista is affected by Frozen Heart equal to other ADCs or that other ADCs can be counterpicked via team-comp as hard as she can? Kalista needs to auto to have mobility. Let's see... fewer rend stacks (her main damage source), fewer jumps, fewer autos and she is short ranged enough to often be in the aura. Yup, it's definitely just as if you're a Jinx/Graves and someone got Frozen Heart.
You typed a lot and basically said nothing and addressed nothing with any facts whatsoever. Yeah, winrate isn't everything but it is certainly more objective looking at Plat+ winrates than seeing people whine about her jumping a lot.
Pretty much every ADC has their damage harmed by Frozen Heart. I could mention that some champions such as Vayne suffer hard from it aswell, and Twitch getting hit by the passive from his ultimate easily. Kalista can still kite a tank with frozen heart with much problem. I assure you.
Also, you say that my post had nothing in it. Did you read every point where I directly countered what you said? Like what you are supposed to do here. Win rates don't account for a single feature of the champion. Heimerdinger had a win rate of 59% not long ago. Does this make him OP?
Vreivai1 votesSome champions can have high win rates due to mostly being played by those who actually focused on trying to learn them, while others that are more popular have a massive amount of new players trying to play them and dragging the win rate down. Can't base much of your evidence from it.
If you've actually looked at a lot of champion win rates, you'd realize this isn't even remotely close to true. The champions with the lowest win rates also tend to have some of the lowest pick rates. By your reasoning, they should be relatively high because mostly only people that main that champion are playing them. And while, yes, some champions do have a depressed win rate in normals when they're on the free rotation, there's usually not a mass of players who have never played them before playing them in solo queue, except maybe when the champions just dominated a professional game for the first time (and even then not anywhere near the degree you see in a champion's free week).
Generally, what affects a champion's solo queue win rate are three factors: champion strength (yes, I know, it's fucking surprising, but how strong a champion is actually does affect how often they win), ease of play and how well they fit into the solo queue meta. This is why Amumu perpetually has one of the highest win rates despite never being seen in the LCS: he's really easy to play and he's amazing in the chaotic teamfights that usually dominate solo queue. It's also why Sejuani has been dominant since Cinderhulk was introduced; she's ranks highly in all 3 criteria.
Secondly, your way of countering a champion is by counterpicking.
Yeah, counterpicking is important, but a champion shouldn't be designed such that if you don't counterpick them you can't do anything to them. You should still have a fighting chance if you don't counterpick them.
stuartk112 votesIf you've actually looked at a lot of champion win rates, you'd realize this isn't even remotely close to true. The champions with the lowest win rates also tend to have some of the lowest pick rates. By your reasoning, they should be relatively high because mostly only people that main that champion are playing them. And while, yes, some champions do have a depressed win rate in normals when they're on the free rotation, there's usually not a mass of players who have never played them before playing them in solo queue, except maybe when the champions just dominated a professional game for the first time (and even then not anywhere near the degree you see in a champion's free week).
Generally, what affects a champion's solo queue win rate are three factors: champion strength (yes, I know, it's fucking surprising, but how strong a champion is actually does affect how often they win), ease of play and how well they fit into the solo queue meta. This is why Amumu perpetually has one of the highest win rates despite never being seen in the LCS: he's really easy to play and he's amazing in the chaotic teamfights that usually dominate solo queue. It's also why Sejuani has been dominant since Cinderhulk was introduced; she's ranks highly in all 3 criteria.
Yeah, counterpicking is important, but a champion shouldn't be designed such that if you don't counterpick them you can't do anything to them. You should still have a fighting chance if you don't counterpick them.
You assumed that when I said "some", that I meant "all". This is not the case. You also misunderstood my point in counterpicking. I was arguing that couterpicking is NOT a weakness of any champion, since it is true for them all, and not always in the player's control.
On the subject of winrates, there is evidence that my statement is true in some cases, and evidence that it is not true in other cases. Just because it doesn't fit all of the cases, doesn't detract from my original statement.
aperson14 votesJust because a champ is frustrating to play against despite not being OP doesn't make them immune to changes; in fact, it necessitates them. That's why reworks exist. Nerfs, in the meantime, can reduce frustrating champions play-rates.
In all honesty, this is a really light nerf. Yeah maybe Kalista is no longer able to kite a Righteous Glory'd Volibear with Q on, but no other ADC could anyway.
ofart10 votesThere are sooooo many ADCs with a higher winrate than her. I don't think she deserves a nerf at all. Her late game is already very underwhelming and Frozen Heart is pretty much a hard counter to her mobility/damage.
GuiltyGecko11 votesWin rate don't mean shit if you're annoying as fuck.
ofart3 votesWin rate don't mean shit if you're annoying as fuck.
Ok so if I have champion X with 0% winrate but I annoy everyone, then I'm doing great right? Please...
GuiltyGecko16 votesLets say there was a champion that had a passive ability that made both Nexus invulnerable for 50 minutes. During this time, You start at level 18 and all your abilities are Karthus R On a 5 second cooldown. Also, whenever you use a skill, it plays a random sound bit from a random youtube video to all players since it's a global noise like Sion R. After the 50 minute mark, your team auto loses from your passive sapping all of your nexus health.
This champion would have a 0% win rate, and would be annoying and un-fun to play against. Champions that are un-fun to play against and that are super annoying need to be changed regardless of their win rate.
MrSc0tty9 votesOk so if I have champion X with 0% winrate but I annoy everyone, then I'm doing great right? Please...
That's pretty much the description of what Yorick is.
See any Yorick buffs on PBE? Any Yorick skins? Any Yorick anything? No. Because why? Clearly he's underpowered with a low ass winrate. Because Riot realizes he is cancer on a cancer stick in a cancer sandwich and they have excised him from the random rotation and like to pretend he doesn't exist, which they should.
GuiltyGecko6 votesSo happy. Kalista should not be able to outrun a 
using E. God, this is just amazing.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesShe out-kites powerball Rammus with Mobi-boots and blue smite. At least Hec has his ult.
Drunk Rummate15 votes[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BN4sT4QU,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-05-06T21:18:34.657+0000)
She out-kites powerball Rammus with Mobi-boots and blue smite. At least Hec has his ult.
You realize mobi boots have the same movespeed as T1 boots while you're in combat, right? So like, that's a really inefficient item to build if you're worried about being kited by kalista.
Ariel the Cruel4 votes{checks boots}
Swifties. My bad.
MrBuffington2 votesRiven MS nerf too. Err'body getting mobility nerfs :P
