why is a safe champion considered toxic?

warpenguin555·Jan 12, 2016·6 votes·855 views

i never got this. i mean you should be able to kill things, but its not like you have to kill them 30 times in lane to win. the way i see it, if you are against a safe champion just farm lol

26 Comments

Spaceman5pffJan 12, 20169 votes

It is champions that are safe when they are meant to be UNSAFE that are toxic

OmegaTree119Jan 12, 20161 votes

Examples?

Hayaishi2Jan 12, 20166 votes

It's when safe champions are rewarded way too much for playing safe. Like Lux.

Playing safe shouldn't be the playstyle that wins games.

PrinceOfStormsJan 12, 20163 votes

Lux and Orianna. Despite people claiming that she's the pinnacle of balance, she's an incredibly safe pick, is rewarded for being safe, and is pretty much always a contested pick at worlds. No clue why the balance team won't take the nerf sledgehammer to her.

1000angrybeesJan 12, 20162 votes

Orianna is MUCH less problematic than Lux. Her attacks generally aren't very fast, she doesn't hit hard until at least mid game, she has extremely low mobility, has arguably the same mana problems, and she lacks potent cc outside of her ult. Orianna also is less likely to kill at longer ranges, unlike Lux.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Orianna is MUCH less problematic than Lux. Her attacks generally aren't very fast, she doesn't hit hard until at least mid game, she has extremely low mobility, has arguably the same mana problems, and she lacks potent cc outside of her ult. Orianna also is less likely to kill at longer ranges, unlike Lux.

oriana combos can kill a squishy though and way less predictable while having a lot more utility but generally lux is the way to go since shes spammy.

AbyssphereJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lux and Orianna. Despite people claiming that she's the pinnacle of balance, she's an incredibly safe pick, is rewarded for being safe, and is pretty much always a contested pick at worlds. No clue why the balance team won't take the nerf sledgehammer to her.

The balance team won't nerf Orianna because she performs horrendously in solo queue and unlike people like Azir, isn't dominant enough in competitive play to merit a nerf despite her poor performance in normal hands.

http://champion.gg/champion/Orianna

A champion with those stats isn't getting nerfed without a 90% pick/ban scenario in competitive games, and there are always at least a couple of mid laners above Orianna in terms of pick priority. Frankly if it weren't for her pro performance she would be a champion in line for buffs.

StrawberrycocoaJan 12, 20163 votes

The glut of bursty assassins means we need MORE options for characters that can deny them kills while still coming out of lane phase strong.

Hayaishi2Jan 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The glut of bursty assassins means we need MORE options for characters that can deny them kills while still coming out of lane phase strong.

Not if those characters are also easy, no skill with low risk high reward.

AbyssphereJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not if those characters are also easy, no skill with low risk high reward.

People will always perceive safe characters as being easy because there is rarely anything hard involved in not interacting with your enemy. At the end of the day, it is always harder for Lux to kill an enemy than it is for any assassin to, even if she puts herself in far less danger to do so.

WeatheredJan 12, 20164 votes

They aren't toxic people just complain wayyy too much on boards. Keep on playing who you love to play and dont spend too much time on boards.

StrawberrycocoaJan 12, 20164 votes

Safe champions are only called "toxic" by whiny brats that can't handle being denied kills. I.E. 99% of all assassin players.

LithiumWednesdayJan 12, 20162 votes

cough cough zed cough cough

Solidair3Jan 12, 20162 votes

Lux is a good example of why this isn't okay. She basically can't be countered. If you look up her stats on champion.gg (which factors in only plat+ stats) you'll notice that champions she "struggles" with often have a low win rate against her, leaving Lux at a 50ish% win rate against her worst match ups which is pretty not good. Being TOO safe and not having any exploitable weaknesses at any point in the game is toxic, to a degree.

Edit: which isn't to say Lux is grossly out of line, she could take a hit to her utility or damage though and still be plenty viable.

KaiokoJan 12, 20161 votes

Coming from a Lux main - the main selling point of having a Lux mid is your mid game and being able to combo and kill a squishy target from a distance. If you can't take advantage of it then she falls extremely hard late game. The only reason she's a good pick right now is because the meta is honestly a lot squishier than it used to be and games are ending a lot faster. The tools in Lux's kit aren't that much stronger than they've been before.

SwerzzJan 12, 20161 votes

Thunderlords also really helps her right now. Thunderlords proc + Passive proc hurts early, and she can proc it really easily also.

KaiokoJan 12, 20161 votes

So can numerous other champions though - let's face it who isn't thunderlords helping?

SwerzzJan 12, 20161 votes

There's a difference between people using though because it's extremely broken, and between the fact that it actually works really well with there kit. Once the other keystones get buffed, other's might move away from thunderlords. Lux's will still be really strong with thunderlords.

KaiokoJan 12, 20161 votes

So will Morganna, Anivia, Annie, Ahri, Vel Koz, Veigar, and pretty much any burst AP damage dealer or any AP damage dealer that has an AOE to proc it quickly.

Zero Skill TankJan 12, 20161 votes

Safe champions are rewarded for making the game boring. That's definition of toxicity.

Silents429Jan 12, 20161 votes

Depending on what you classify as safe, I don't fully know why all of them would be toxic, but a few like

Nasus for example is a safe laner. Without kills you just lose quicker, with kills you delay the inevitable. There is no winning against him.

AbyssphereJan 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Depending on what you classify as safe, I don't fully know why all of them would be toxic, but a few like

for example is a safe laner. Without kills you just lose quicker, with kills you delay the inevitable. There is no winning against him.

With kills you delay the inevitable and finish the game before the inevitable has time to happen.

Don't understand how everyone on the boards can simultaneously complain about how all of their games are ending at 20 minutes and yet claim that it's impossible to stop Nasus getting to his late game.

Silents429Jan 12, 20161 votes

Oh but of course.

We simply win sooner, it's so easy and fair.

AbyssphereJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Oh but of course.

We simply win sooner, it's so easy and fair.

It is not significantly harder for you to end the game quickly than it is for Nasus's team to drag the game out. Season 6 has introduced a variety of mechanics which make it easier for the team with the advantage to end the game and the team facing Nasus will always have the advantage pre-20 minutes unless their top laner is awful or the other lanes have lost.

No, you can't always win the game before Nasus gets his stacks going, but it is still ridiculous to call Nasus hitting his late game "the inevitable". Nasus hitting his late game always results from either his team outplaying yours, allowing them to successfully stall, or your top laner not being able to use their early advantage to a) shut down Nasus and b) progress the game state across the map. And even in the event that he does hit a large amount of stacks, he is still extremely beatable as long as your team is performing well - his late game is extremely overrated and he wins less games after the 40 minute mark than he does at any game length before that point.

I've never lost to a Nasus without being able to pinpoint why and I have never thought "Well Nasus auto-won because he just does that late game". When it comes to ticking time bomb champions, I'd take Nasus over a Vayne or Sated melee carry any day.

Silents429Jan 12, 20161 votes

Oh goodie your entire means of beating him is assuming your team is not only at a prime competent level but everyone is playing champions perfectly suited for not only winning early on, but also dealing with Nasus. Let's also assume the enemy doesn't have half a brain, because it IS in fact easy to stall a game by playing defensively.

Tell me more about how he is balanced. Really.

MiraweaveJan 12, 20161 votes

Because people don't like it when they can't get muh kill$ every game.

Champions who exist not to die are ok and necessary to counter all-in type snowball champions, they just need to be rather mediocre at everything else or have long windows of weakness.