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So how come bard was released in such a bad state?

Linna Excel··4 votes·1,321 views

If there's one thing riot has been getting a little better at lately is releasing champs in a viable but not grossly OP or grossly UP state. So how is it that Bard got released all weak and gimped? I mean it's not just us silvers and bronzies that are having problems with him. In diamond he's got a 38% win rate. In master+ he's got a lot more wobble because of small sample sizes, but it isn't averaging much higher there either.

Does a roaming support not really work because you never know if you have a game where you can roam before hand? Is leaving the ADC alone a terrible idea a terrible idea for a support as you need to babysit ADCs? Does every champ need 2 sources of damage? Is he too different to work well in the game?

You know I kind of applaud riot for trying different champs to a degree but a champ like this really should never have been let out of PBE until his core problems were fixed. You know at the end of the day, it's the QA people and PBE who are the final gate keeping bad champs out of the game until they work right. I've seen that riot refuses to let people become champion QA without a diamond ranking. How could your internal diamond players not be able to figure out during testing that you all had a champ who wasn't ready to be released? If they did why didn't riot listen to them?

Don't get me wrong, I still want to see champs released regularly but I'd like those champs to be within a 47%-53% win rate as well. Cake is delicious and I both like having it and eating it too.

19 Comments

67chrome2 votes

In diamond he's got a 38% win rate.

Bronze through Diamond win-rates have pretty much always been interchangeable, champions don't really shift in performance much once you hit ranked.

As for a low win-rate after release, that also happened to:

Orianna Lucian Rengar Azir Elise Nami LeeSin

In the case of Nami, Elise, and Rengar - all 3 of those were in the 38%~40% zone, and several new releases prior have been chilling in Karma tier for a solid month before people really figure the champion out. When Karma tier was a thing.

Elise, Lucian, and Nami then proceeded to be the best-in-class for LCS games fallowing their release.

Lucian was particually face-palmy in regards to the community, as he was widely considered the worst marksman until he saw serious tournament play, then widely considered the best marksman in the game afterwards.

But anyways - nobody knows how to play new champions, so everyone fails with them. Win rates for the first month don't really tell much.

How could your internal diamond players not be able to figure out during testing that you all had a champ who wasn't ready to be released? If they did why didn't riot listen to them?

You're probably reading to far into his win-rates: having awful win rates post-release is really normal, at least for the past ~3 years I've been checking win rates at LoL King.

Also - Bard's kit seems a lot more Ori/Elise/Lee-esque where it's pretty intense. As a roaming support, Bard also pushes a very different team-wide strategy that just isn't easy to play around and adapt to overnight.

The Dimaond players using him probably figured out how to use him and saw his potential when they figured him out, and Riot probably balanced him around where players will see him ~3 months down the line, rather than releasing him in an OP state and gradually nerffing him as people get used to what he is and what he can do.

SpongebobIsLife2 votes

idk man, the difference between Bard and the rest of those champs is that their kits and their numbers were strong on release. Nothing was changed about Lucian, Azir, or Elise (im not sure about the rest you mentioned) when they were released, but they were still really strong. The thing is, is just that this guys kit, number wise is really weak, and his ult is way too ez to mess up, even for really good players, and as good as his E is for setting up ganks, the same can be almost be sad for the enemy team. Several players have sad this about him, and even Riot has come out and said that he needs work, something they haven't said about any of the above champions that you mentioned. I do think part of the issue is that people still are trying to figure out how to play him, but the bigger issue is that his kit is really weak. Also, look at his pick rate. It's lower than any champion released since I've started playing the game, only getting close to gnar and yasuo, both received an immediate spike in their pick rates after the next patch, but this cannot be said of Bard. It's safe to say that majority of League players do not think Bard is a good champion.

67chrome1 votes

Also, look at his pick rate. It's lower than any champion released since I've started playing the game, only getting close to gnar and yasuo, both received an immediate spike in their pick rates after the next patch, but this cannot be said of Bard.

There pick rate was low when they cost 6300 IP and more on release, but received an immediate spike on their free week ~2 weeks after release.

Much wow.

Again, you're trying to make this into a bigger deal than it is.

Everyone will also continue to think Bard is under-powered until he sees LCS play regardless of how much Riot does or does not buff him.

It's worth noting the buffs to Elise and Yasou due to the community thinking those champions where UP led them to be near 100% pick/ban in the tournaments fallowing directly afterwards, gaining so much steam they remained top-tier picks well after they were nerffed much lower than their release numbers.

Linna Excel1 votes

Everyone will also continue to think Bard is under-powered until he sees LCS play regardless of how much Riot does or does not buff him.

This assumes he sees enough LCS play to get traction. Also he might do things well in the LCS, but that's because they are organized teams with voicechat, not your typical solo queue team. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't think he was designed with solo queue in mind.

FantasySniper1 votes

Think ≠ Truth Did you not pay attention to what he just said?

Bard isn't half bad with a decent player using him. I've barely used him at all, and I can safely say that he's got potential.

Linna Excel1 votes

Okay, I think some of your points are valid. but for bard I don't think I'm reading too much into the win rate.

For a good example of his design issues look at his heal. I mean there's no AoE passive regen auras to them so you have to step on them to get the heal. They need to charge up so people can't use them right away if they need more health. They are not much good against high burst. Or an ADC with a IE and SS. The enemy can stomp them. Finally they have that bloody click the lantern issue that thresh has and you need to place them before they are needed, which means a team fight can move away from them.

Now if he had enough power from his other skills to make up for a terribad heal that falls off, that'd be fine. I'm not sure he does though.

Sightless661 votes

Neither Lucian or Nami were played on release. Lucian needed small buffs, much better Q targeting, and a major bugfix (his Q cost double the mana they wanted it to) before he was played. Nami was terrible on release. She had multiple patches worth of straight buffs before she was even looked at. Every skill had to be improved. She saw no competitive play before those buffs happened. Release Nami was not a good champion.

Riot probably balanced him around where players will see him ~3 months down the line,

Major buffs coming next patch, so I'm not sure about that.

rtbf2216514122 votes

Can we stop making these threads? Kthx.

ForPortal2 votes

Bard's problem is not that he's a roaming support, it's that his kit is more "Wouldn't it be cool if..." than "Wouldn't it be useful if..."

Double the range on Soraka's Salvation passive, or unnerf Sona or Janna's MS skills, and I'd be glad to see either of them being played as roaming supports, because their kits actually have something to offer so that I'm happy they've come to my lane.

Linna Excel1 votes

Bard's problem is not that he's a roaming support, it's that his kit is more "Wouldn't it be cool if..." than "Wouldn't it be useful if..."

I don't disagree with this and I'm fine if riot tries out cool ideas, but I think we all want/need them to be viable as well.

Mathbalnase1 votes

The staggering amount of utility and potential in Bard's kit leads me to be rather forgiving of any hesitancy on Riot's part to also give him strong numbers at release.

DrCabes1 votes

The main thing with bard is he seems to have a fairly high skill cap to not be a hindrance to you team in a fair amount of situations let alone help them. I think his win rate will go up once people learn how to play as and with him better, but I could be wrong.

Linna Excel1 votes

I'd like to believe that, but I'm waiting for the higher level player's winrates to pick up a little first on him.

Salidfingers1 votes

Bard is actually pretty strong.

one problem is that it is bad for a support to roam constantly

Second in team fights his heals are non existence. I think his shrines would make great wards when he roams.

But he is really pretty strong on setting up lane ganks. Let me toss my mile long ult on the adc for my jungler to come in and cc some more.

IcyPepper1 votes

Because Zyra happened.

PPPPPPPPPPPP2701 votes

The thing about Bard is that he does not really have numbers that can be changed.

His ultimate does no damage and ranking it up only decreases cooldown slightly.

Bard has the meeps and that's about it in real damage changes.

BodyByDave1 votes

I honestly think Bard is fine as is and people just have no idea how to play him and perhaps more importantly play WITH him. When some tard picks Vayne into your Bard and you go roam, she's gonna get crapped on because she has no clear. Teams have to consider their composition more than ever in this meta and Bard forces your team to make a drastic change in strategy. I've seen some incredible plays from bards in my personal interactions with them, I just think people need more time to get used to him/playing with him on their team.

ForPortal1 votes

What nonsense. If you want to do something outside the norm, it's your job to make it work, not everyone else's. It's not her fault that you picked a support who doesn't support.

Miku Lv991 votes

They just don't know how strong to make new champions. Almost all of them have been at a very wrong power level upon release. I at least feel like they kinda learned their lesson with the OP Jinx though, as the champions since they have almost all been weak upon release. Which is good since releasing a very OP champion has much bigger drawbacks.

Bard is absolutely horrible right now. He needs a whole lot of buffs to get up to par with a lot of other champions.

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