@Meddler: What is your view on Thornmail? Is it even healthy being in the game at this point?

darkdill··2 votes·617 views

For pretty much the whole year, the item has been a bad choice for countering physical damage when compared to item 3068 item 3143 item 3742 . 100 armor might be appealing to some, but the Thorns effect continuously gets washed out by enemies who build MR, lifesteal, item 3812 or item 3046 . Most notable is item 3139 ; if the enemy ADC gets that item, Thornmail pretty much gets hard-countered because the MR soaks up the Thorns while the lifesteal counters what remains.

Picture a game I had last night where I was Malphite, had +500 armor, and yet the enemy Vayne wasn't hurting herself when attacking me. I know 500 armor doesn't help against Vayne in terms of surviving her damage (nothing does), but I was pissed off to see her lifesteal was STRONGER than the Thorns damage. I build all that armor and she doesn't even feel the Thorns? What a kick in the balls.

Most of the 'advice' I've gotten from other players is to ditch the item for a Randuin, and I'm starting to agree with them. Thorns in practice just never seems to work; even if you're Rammus it doesn't do all too well. The problem is that Thornmail requires too many stats to work properly: you need bonus armor for the Thorns, HP for survivability, and MPen so the Thorns doesn't get hugely reduced by MR. You also have to hope your opponent doesn't have MR or lifesteal in their build, which is wishful thinking. Much like Spell Vamp, that creates a problem where you simply cannot have all the necessary stats; after all, when's the last time you saw a Rammus with a Void Staff?

Since Thornmail hasn't even gotten any mentions from Riot, I am led to believe that Thornmail is considered toxic by the dev team, but I could be wrong. Do you think you could speak for the devs and tell us whether or not you think Thornmail is actually a healthy item for the game?

10 Comments

ReshiKillim1 votes

I just build a thornmail and stack a bunch of randuins on Rammus against AD heavy teams, never had anyone out LS my damage.

Note: The % Crit damage reduction stacks, so you nerf the crap out of crits against you by stacking randuins.

Rivuo1 votes

Do people not understand that thornmail is an early game item? I dont understand has nobody actually bought this item and saw what it does?

If you buy a thornmail it completely negates an adc from attacking you for the first 15-30 minutes.

The enemy adc will need item 3036 and item 1053 to even think about touching you.

You sell thornmail late game because thats when it does nothing.

I just dont understand how people keep saying its useless when they have no single thought on how to actually use the item.

Picture a game I had last night where I was Malphite, had +500 armor,and yet the enemy Vayne wasn't hurting herself when attacking me.

Bull fuckin shit. I have a screenshot of a malphite with 630 armor reflecting 1k damage back to me even tho i had merc scimitar and lord dom. I can upload it right now.

darkdill2 votes

Wrong. If you get Thorns early, you don't have enough bonus armor to make it potent.

Also, lots of ADCs can now just chip you with their abilities rather than AA you.

Rivuo1 votes

{quoted}

Wrong. If you get Thorns early, you don't have enough bonus armor to make it potent.

1200 ranked games as an adc.

If the enemy jungler / top gets thornmail i kill myself until 30 minutes.

darkdill1 votes

Regardless of when it's good to get the item, the question is whether or not it's actually HEALTHY GAMEPLAY for Thornmail to exist at this point. Riot seems to dislike scenarios like what you described (ADC can't win or outplay until items).

Rivuo1 votes

{quoted}

Regardless of when it's good to get the item, the question is whether or not it's actually HEALTHY GAMEPLAY for Thornmail to exist at this point. Riot seems to dislike scenarios like what you described (ADC can't win or outplay until items).

Its not a healthy item because it completely negates an adc from autoing a certain champ for 25 minutes..

darkdill1 votes

Exactly my point. Hence why it needs to either be reworked or removed.

Early on it can be oppressive, but later on it's a wasted slot. It compounds this by acting like a noob trap, making you think "ooh, this item should be really strong if I stack 500 armor!", when it reality that doesn't work.

Rivuo1 votes

{quoted}

Exactly my point. Hence why it needs to either be reworked or removed.

Early on it can be oppressive, but later on it's a wasted slot. It compounds this by acting like a noob trap, making you think "ooh, this item should be really strong if I stack 500 armor!", when it reality that doesn't work.

You're supposed to sell it late game.

Pacothegint1 votes

{quoted}

You're supposed to sell it late game.

But in this game where most people like to keep all items they buy except for their starting items it will seem like a waste of gold

Rivuo1 votes

{quoted}

But in this game where most people like to keep all items they buy except for their starting items it will seem like a waste of gold

I mean considering you made the adc rush lifesteal and armor pen lol

More from Gameplay

More by darkdill