Sudden impact

Saezio·Feb 19, 2019·1 votes·1,355 views

Why does it give Lethality AND M-pene. Why not adaptive? Is this intended to be a hybrid rune?

9 Comments

Warlord RhinarkFeb 19, 20192 votes

Anyone that benefits heavily from Lethality usually doesn't benefit very well from Magic Penetration, and vice versa.

SaezioFeb 19, 20191 votes

Everyone benefits from lethality because if you aren't weaving autos in your rotations you are doing it wrong. And sure, some champs don't benefit at all from m-pene but some benefit from both almost equally.

So, I ask again, is this rune intended to be more attractive to hybrid champions? Or is it simply an oversight?

Warlord RhinarkFeb 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Everyone benefits from lethality because if you aren't weaving autos in your rotations you are doing it wrong. And sure, some champs don't benefit at all from m-pene but some benefit from both almost equally.

Which is why I said heavily, not just "benefits".

So, I ask again, is this rune intended to be more attractive to hybrid champions? Or is it simply an oversight?

Oversight probably.

SaezioFeb 19, 20191 votes

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear in my point.

My reply was meant to point out that it will be universally on average better for AP users since they will "even if slightly" benefit from both. while quite a lot of AD users (especially later releases) have next to no magic damage integrated into their kit

And of course that hybrids drool over both stats

Warlord RhinarkFeb 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear in my point.

My reply was meant to point out that it will be universally on average better for AP users since they will "even if slightly" benefit from both. while quite a lot of AD users (especially later releases) have next to no magic damage integrated into their kit

And of course that hybrids drool over both stats

I mean, they could change it to Adaptive for all I care.

I don't exactly see any hybrid champions abusing this rune, much less anyone that has actual dashes in their kits.

SaezioFeb 19, 20191 votes

Kha for example has magic on his passive (not a very small amount of damage) Zed has magic on his passive (small amount but not negligible) Akali obviously but she has been gutted so hard that it doesn't even feel fair to mention her. Noc E is magic Rengar W is magic Camille R bonus on hit is magic Irelia has magic on her E R and passive

these are all not by any stretch of the imagination game breaking but at level 6 for example and to get the snowball rolling they aren't "inconsequential" either. At least IMO

P.S. Jax I am not mentioning because I don't think the champ picks the rune, maybe as a jungler he can.

Rathar DashingFeb 19, 20191 votes

Because it's meant to benefit a champ's entire damage, not just some of it.

Giving a champion AD and AP at the same time causes problems, because a handful of champions like Akali, Kai'Sa and Ezreal benefit greatly from getting both, even though most AP champions wouldn't benefit from some extra AD, and lots of AD champions have no AP scaling at all. Having adaptive in this case allows all champions to get roughly equal benefit from the stat, without having hybrid champs double dip.

Sudden Impact gives dual pen because it's meant to give a decent amplification to a champion's entire kit for the moments when it procs. For a champion like Rengar, he would be fine with just lethality, as all his damage is physical, and champs like Zoe or Ekko would be fine with just flat Mpen. However, for champs like Akali, Kai'Sa and Ezreal, they would all only get half as much benefit, because their damage is split between physical and magic. Akali could get Mpen for her Q's, but then she wouldn't have any damage amp on her E or R1 for her burst. Ezreal could build lethality, but then he wouldn't be able to get any extra burst out of his W, E or R, and what if he built as an AP with lichbane? Giving both stats just puts hybrid champs on an equal playing field.

SaezioFeb 19, 20191 votes

OK, this seems rather rational. Except for rengar W being magic, but I'll pardon you that.

My initial thought was that champs like K6 intentionally have some magic damage in their kit so it won't benefit from lethality, so I figured by that train of thought that it should be adaptive.

But your reason that it is just a small amp on each champ's entire kit seems to be rather persuasive.

P.S. Still wouldn't be surprised if it was just an oversight by riot

Rathar DashingFeb 20, 20191 votes

Rengar W isn't part of his burst, and even then that's why he gets mpen. Same with Ekko and Zoe on the base attack damage+sheen.

Pretty sure it's intentional, because it works perfectly fine and having it be adaptive would cause lots of problems. First of all, the reason it's flat pen is because it's supposed to be a burst rune that helps take down squishy targets rather than tankier ones. If it gave AD or AP, it would be too generalist and be effective against all targets equally. It would also bring up the problem of champs like Ekko, Riven, Sylas, and Akali (before her most recent nerf) who have AD and AP scalings that aren't damage (heals and shields, mostly, but also Fiora true damage).

If it was adaptive pen, there would also be the problem of how to properly determine which the champion would benefit more from. Sure, champs like Riven and Zoe who deal almost exclusively one type of damage, but then you have other champions like Akali and Katarina who would work weirdly. Akali could build an AD item, but would still benefit more from having Mpen because of her Q, passive and R2. Kai'Sa could also build some AP items like Nashor's early on, but still be dealing a majority of physical damage from her AA's and Q. Then you have a champ like Jayce who builds almost all AD, but still has lots of magic damage in his kit. It seems fairly intentional that Riot let it give dual pen to avoid problems and stick with the simple effective solution.