I just had a jungler in Ranked champ select who refused to take smite, he had teleport and ghost and said 'new meta dont need smite'
i had to dodge because you know game is lost without jungler and his smite.
Why do I need to suffer LP for this and he gets no punishment?
Butterwood10 votes"Wanna dodge but don't wanna lose LP"
"Jung remove smite"
"lol k cool cya guys"
hrooza dota 3 votespicks off meta non jungle pick
wtf no way i will play with this troll remove smite
free dodges
preternatural9 votesechos of nubrac. if nubrac isn't trolling then your "jungler" isn't trolling. warned ya
Kazamaru2 votesechos of nubrac. if nubrac isn't trolling then your "jungler" isn't trolling. warned ya
So Support, as a role means you are not taking CS unless you are working with a strategy that involves you taking cs.(E.g. 
botlane where Taric takes the minions until Sona gets 
and is responsible to have a warding item.(Generally it also means that you buy more 
, stay bot with the ADC, and try and donate kills to the carries of the team when you have that option.) When Nubrac, who is legitimately in Master, plays his strategy he is not taking CS, and he is genuinely helping whichever lane he chooses to support.(Those obviously his ADC getshafted pretty hard.)
So Jungle, as a role, means your source of income is from the jungle and ganks. It also means that they are able to apply pressure to neutral objectives like Dragon and Baron. Not playing 
removes this possibility from all but 
& 
.
So, I agree with OP.
preternatural5 votesSo Support, as a role means you are not taking CS unless you are working with a strategy that involves you taking cs.(E.g.
So Jungle, as a role, means your source of income is from the jungle and ganks. It also means that they are able to apply pressure to neutral objectives like Dragon and Baron. Not playing
So, I agree with OP.
stop it kid, nubrac was not playing support otherwise he would have played in bottom lane and supported the role that is balanced around having a support. you talk about CS but you don't know how experience gains work in the game, how does your champion level up? you don't think nubrac's strat hampers the solo laners getting exp and keeping up in levels with their opposite? or you don't think at all, cause looking underneath to see how the game works wouldn't be sensible.
Paletongue3 votesYou start off your post by attacking, calling him kid. Hard to take you seriously with a bad start like this.
Regardless, this person's post is more focused on how not taking smite is a large hindrance to Jungle's primary task of contesting the jungle. Do you agree with that, or do you feel the need to just yell cause you're still upset about a silly debate from several weeks ago?
preternatural3 votesYou start off your post by attacking, calling him kid. Hard to take you seriously with a bad start like this.
Regardless, this person's post is more focused on how not taking smite is a large hindrance to Jungle's primary task of contesting the jungle. Do you agree with that, or do you feel the need to just yell cause you're still upset about a silly debate from several weeks ago?
some of you don't get it lol, supporting that nubrac strat is inexcusable, it highlights a lack of understanding as to how the game even works. yes nubrac is masters, he is not the first "high elo" player to be a soft inter or griefer or what have you, he won't be the last either, his is simply not for the uninitiated to understand, i hope he enjoys his new viewer base though. in any competent lobby there is no jungler running no smite on purpose, there is no off lane support stealing xp from solo lane champions that need it. as if the mmr going sideways wasn't enough, there's a church of nubrac or simply people galvanised by him that are now running stupid shit that does not work at any level when all things are even.
Paletongue3 votesTotally, Nubrac is a POS whatever.
The issue is you're not going to convince others by continuing this conversation, by derailing this thread about smite, and by calling people names. If you think you're talking to a "church of Nubrac" member, then you should already know you're wasting your breath.
obviously his ADC getshafted pretty hard.
BESIDES even that, the guy you are attacking even called out Nubrac, saying he is harming his ADC in your quoted post! He's not a Nubrac stan, he simply used a well known example. No need to jump so aggressively.
preternatural2 votesTotally, Nubrac is a POS whatever.
The issue is you're not going to convince others by continuing this conversation, by derailing this thread about smite, and by calling people names. If you think you're talking to a "church of Nubrac" member, then you should already know you're wasting your breath.
BESIDES even that, the guy you are attacking even called out Nubrac, saying he is harming his ADC in your quoted post! He's not a Nubrac stan, he simply used a well known example. No need to jump so aggressively.
it's all the same thing, the only reason smiteless jungle is a debate is because the community tolerated high brow griefing despite it being explained to them. so now folks have to tolerate smiteless jungles, i've gotten 2 of those already and i am not impressed. all of this stems back to nubrac, some folks might not like that, whatever it's not my job to care about what people like when they opt into things that will make the game unplayable in no time at all. i don't care if op was for or against nubrac, i care that the overriding sentiment out of the community was that nubrac was right when he categorically wasn't. there are ramifications for these patterns of thought all of which i have not considered myself but already the most base level presuppositions are coming to bare, so what's next?
Paletongue2 votesYep, I see your point and get where you're coming from.
Off-meta is a very tricky line to walk on, because, while it can be fun and beneficial to try something strange, it always affects your teammates, who have certain expectations in the first place. This game is balanced toward a certain strategy being dominant, and not following that loose strategy can often decrease your chances of winning. And we can all agree that losing is less fun than winning.
I used to like off meta picks more than I do now. Team comp is everything, and when one role can't fulfill their purpose, everyone suffers.
I often compare game balance to Heroes of The Storm, as their balance is a lot less quick paced, and a fairly wide variety of team comps can work. That has a lot to do with how their matchmaking works, as well as how assassins(or any high damage unit) cannot assassinate as easy as they can in league. Kill time is all around longer in HOTS, meaning there is more time for entire teams to react. Maps are also smaller there. Off meta works better in a game like that, as League is much more rigid with how careful you need to be, and mistakes are much more damaging.
And think back to Nexus Blitz too. double jungle as the standard, as well as a smaller map, led to a much wider variety in champion picks per role, and off meta was easier to do too. As long as you could contribute to a teamfight or objective, your strange build could work. Once again, summoners rift was not built so loosely. No Smite and Mid support both harm your team in the long run.
(Thanks for your kinder tone, preternatural! Good chat.)
Teh Song5 votesFirstly because dodging is among the worst things you can do. If somebody does something you feel is dodge worthy; mute them, play the match, and report them after. Doesn't matter what it is they did. You are worse for dodging than they'll ever be for wanting to try something you didn't like.
Secondly because if people want to try nonstandard things they should have every ability to do so. Riot should never do anything that in any way pushes a meta or playstyle on anyone. That doesn't mean everything needs to work, but it does mean everything needs to be allowed.
On that token, not only should they do nothing like what your asking for, but those early game jungle items (Hunters machete and that other one) shouldn't need smite to be built.
Logicalily 18 votes[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-16T10:40:56.298+0000)
Firstly because dodging is among the worst things you can do. If somebody does something you feel is dodge worthy; mute them, play the match, and report them after. Doesn't matter what it is they did. You are worse for dodging than they'll ever be for wanting to try something you didn't like.
Secondly because if people want to try nonstandard things they should have every ability to do so. Riot should never do anything that in any way pushes a meta or playstyle on anyone. That doesn't mean everything needs to work, but it does mean everything needs to be allowed.
On that token, not only should they do nothing like what your asking for, but those early game jungle items (Hunters machete and that other one) shouldn't need smite to be built.
When you see a jg not taking smite would you dodge and save ppl in your team from that troll jg and lose 3 lp or lose 13-18 LP and waste x amount of time? Many climbers do dodge when the team comp isn't good, but I recommend doing this once a day.
Mártir6 votes[{quoted}](name=Logicalily ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T10:44:54.843+0000)
When you see a jg not taking smite would you dodge and save ppl in your team from that troll jg and lose 3 lp or lose 13-18 LP and waste x amount of time? Many climbers do dodge when the team comp isn't good, but I recommend doing this once a day.
Exactly. Dodging is actually a "tool" many players should use.
C0l0urless11 votesFirstly because dodging is among the worst things you can do. If somebody does something you feel is dodge worthy; mute them, play the match, and report them after. Doesn't matter what it is they did. You are worse for dodging than they'll ever be for wanting to try something you didn't like.
You shouldn't have to waste at least 15 minutes of your life playing with a troll just so they will MAYBE get banned. And don't try to excuse this with it being off-meta, since you cannot Jungle without Smite.
Secondly because if people want to try nonstandard things they should have every ability to do so. Riot should never do anything that in any way pushes a meta or playstyle on anyone. That doesn't mean everything needs to work, but it does mean everything needs to be allowed.
If you want to play non-standard positioning you need to have permission from your team, which the guy OP is talking about clearly didn't have.
On that token, not only should they do nothing like what your asking for, but those early game jungle items (Hunters machete and that other one) shouldn't need smite to be built.
This would give laners the opportunity to abuse the items without sacrificing a Summoner Spell so it is an awful idea.
Agent Omega2 votesMachete only effects jg camps not lane minions. It also doesn't provide any hard stat bonus superior to any other item. All it really lets you do is get xp from taking jg camps. There is no way for a laner to abuse Hunter's Machete, and if they don't take smite then they wouldn't get the only other hard advantage that it gives you which is using smite on champions. It's stupid that it needs smite.
C0l0urless1 votesI guess it isn't as huge a deal as I initially thought, but I still think it needing Smite is just fine, since otherwise the item is kind off a noob trap and may be used for some kind of cheese strategy.
Agent Omega1 votesSame argument could be made for support items. A somewhat similar argument could be made for barrier. The game is littered with noob traps. It was my impression we were only talking about ranked anyway, at which point anyone should know better.
Remorseful222 votesThe reason it requires smite is because the full built jungle items are extremely cheap and cost efficient so if the jungle items did not require smite, everyone would build them. The only downside to building them is that they would be restricted early on for gold as having a jungle item and having the most cs on your team while farming your lane will give you less gold per minion kill. They put all of these restrictions on these items because things like mid lane smite Ezreal were really cancerous and was something that alot of people wanted changed and Riot agreed it was bad for the game. Can you imagine a mid smite Ezreal with Klepto? You'd be seeing a Runic Echoes + Seraph's + Rabadons Ez by 18 minutes 1 shotting the entire enemy team while giving your team advantage over major objectives such as dragon and Baron.
Agent Omega1 votesWhich is exactly why bans exists. Any exploit is usable by either team. If it's only one champ, ban the champ. If it's more than one champ, each team can get one. Or Riot could do what they do often by nerfing Ez's AP scaling. It's how they got rid of blue Ez in the first place. It made some sense when jg items offered things like infinite attack speed scaling. It's not that there's no reason to make jg items require smite, it's that they're treating a symptom not the problem and they're not even treating it well. It wouldn't be a problem if at all if Riot spent more time on the PBE balancing the game than cranking out new champs and new skins. Money talks, I guess. Or they could come up with a better AP jungle item that isn't just a clone of another item. Also if the Ez doesn't get smite why do they have an advantage over drag and baron?
GonahtanuGepardi1 votesBans are a band-aid solution to problems, not real fixes.
The original blue ezreal was gone because they changed the jungle items (but there is still technically a blue ezreal build that works fine) because that build had a jungle item in it.
3TWarrior1 votes
and there were a few others
C0l0urless1 votesFrom what I have heard no Smite Jungling was always kinda troll, but that doesn't matter, since your exp gains being tied to the Jungle item made it completely unviable.
General Esdeath 2 votes[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-16T10:40:56.298+0000)
Firstly because dodging is among the worst things you can do. If somebody does something you feel is dodge worthy; mute them, play the match, and report them after. Doesn't matter what it is they did. You are worse for dodging than they'll ever be for wanting to try something you didn't like.
Secondly because if people want to try nonstandard things they should have every ability to do so. Riot should never do anything that in any way pushes a meta or playstyle on anyone. That doesn't mean everything needs to work, but it does mean everything needs to be allowed.
On that token, not only should they do nothing like what your asking for, but those early game jungle items (Hunters machete and that other one) shouldn't need smite to be built.
Yeah man, that guy running it down mid going 0-10? Just mute him ya idiot xP
Oh wait...that's not gonna stop him. And the jungle items require smite because a few seasons ago people were taking them in mid/top for the smite bonuses, mostly challenging smite. This new requirement (having smite) requires them to sacrifice a summoner spell if they want to do this again.
AnotherFeeder3 votes[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-16T10:40:56.298+0000)
Firstly because dodging is among the worst things you can do. If somebody does something you feel is dodge worthy; mute them, play the match, and report them after. Doesn't matter what it is they did. You are worse for dodging than they'll ever be for wanting to try something you didn't like.
Secondly because if people want to try nonstandard things they should have every ability to do so. Riot should never do anything that in any way pushes a meta or playstyle on anyone. That doesn't mean everything needs to work, but it does mean everything needs to be allowed.
On that token, not only should they do nothing like what your asking for, but those early game jungle items (Hunters machete and that other one) shouldn't need smite to be built.
You are legit everything wrong with league of legends.
GonahtanuGepardi2 votesAmen.
Beerstein2 votes[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-16T10:40:56.298+0000)
Firstly because dodging is among the worst things you can do. If somebody does something you feel is dodge worthy; mute them, play the match, and report them after. Doesn't matter what it is they did. You are worse for dodging than they'll ever be for wanting to try something you didn't like.
Secondly because if people want to try nonstandard things they should have every ability to do so. Riot should never do anything that in any way pushes a meta or playstyle on anyone. That doesn't mean everything needs to work, but it does mean everything needs to be allowed.
On that token, not only should they do nothing like what your asking for, but those early game jungle items (Hunters machete and that other one) shouldn't need smite to be built.
I don't think you understand how the game works. If you don't bring smite you won't get JG items, which you seem to have figured out. However, Jungle monster experience gain is directly linked to these items which you don't seem to realize. You literally can't level up in the JG without these items, a few minutes in and the JG monsters will actually start destroying you due to you being much lower level than them.
That said, no matter what you want to "try" you have to do it with Smite, that's just a fact.
Teh Song1 votesI don't think you understand how the game works. If you don't bring smite you won't get JG items, which you seem to have figured out. However, Jungle monster experience gain is directly linked to these items which you don't seem to realize. You literally can't level up in the JG without these items, a few minutes in and the JG monsters will actually start destroying you due to you being much lower level than them.
That said, no matter what you want to "try" you have to do it with Smite, that's just a fact.
Oh, I do realize that, and it reinforces my point. Riot should not do things that force players to do certain things. Being in the jungle requires the jungle items. Not only because of the xp thing, but also just because you want those jungle effects (tooth&nail). You can't take the items without smite. Riot is forcing you to take smite. Riot should not force you to do anything. The fact that the jungle has the xp thing going on just makes it that much worse that Riot gave them a smite requirement, and that much more important for them to remove the requirement.
As I said before, I'm not saying it needs to work. It just needs to be possible. No matter how bad of an idea it might be, and no matter how much better it is to do what is normal, players need to have the option.
To be absolutely clear: my stance is against Riot pushing things on players, plain and simple. The specific topic being smite isn't of particular importance to my stance, I don't want Riot to do ANYTHING that forces/heavily pushes things on players. I'm even against the ability to sort champions by lane in champion select. Although if each separate player could manually decide on sorting categories and what they see in them, that'd be cool.
AlphaM Gaymer3 votesAt your level it isn't even important for the jungler to take smite or to have a jungler at all. I don't see the problem
Jhinfamously11 votesUhhh this is 1000% bullshit.
AlphaM Gaymer2 votesUhhh this is 1000% bullshit.
At your level, should I play on your account my jungler could take ghost and teleport, start boots and run it down like tyler 1, using his left over gold on control wards and feeding them under the enemy turret. 9 times out of 10 i'd still win lane and game.
What's your excuse?
Laughing Fish11 votesBold words from a man hiding behind a level 13 smurf account
AlphaM Gaymer3 votes[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T18:05:52.527+0000)
Bold words from a man hiding behind a level 13 smurf account
You have no way to identify if I am male, a smurf or hiding.
I don't know who hurt you but trying to antagonize people on the internet isn't the answer.
And the nail in the coffin, I am actually level 15 #slay
AlphaM Gaymer2 votes[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T18:05:52.527+0000)
Bold words from a man hiding behind a level 13 smurf account
Godlzahar4 votes[{quoted}](name=AlphaM Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-16T15:08:25.371+0000)
At your level it isn't even important for the jungler to take smite or to have a jungler at all. I don't see the problem
I dont know his level but your brain level is below zero
AlphaM Gaymer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hide on shade,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aqhn8scd,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-07-17T01:17:57.861+0000)
I dont know his level but your brain level is below zero
Adhoms aren't going to discredit someone who said something you wish was not true.
They also aren't going to bother a healthy or successful person.
They aren't going to impress me either, revise your strategy.
Jacadi3 votesJust curious: after dodging, did u look his profile to see if his stragegy was working or if it was just pure int?
Flat Boobs3 votesCause riot doesn't care. They prefer to do nothing and let a system that is broken be as it is.
Chad Thundergems3 votesWhy get a free dodge when you can get a free loss?
Agent Omega2 votesI was actually inspired by a similar situation to question the entire dodge mechanic, and I came up with this:
My initial reaction was just for any game with a team without smite to be automatically cancelled, but I think I came up with a more elegant solution after some thought. I'd love for you to check it out and tell me what you think!
5kcheesesticks2 votesOr when someone chooses a champion they have never played before into a ranked game.
hewhodoesnotcare2 votesRiot shitting on junglers gets u autofilling junglers that's how things r
funkdubious22 votesDodge should be a legit game mechanic, and not cost LP since you cannot control what champs your teammates choose that make a bad team comp... like a smiteless jg or 4 ADCs
ArtumisPrime3 votesDo you really want to go through 40 lobbies to get a game?
funkdubious22 votesYes, i'd rather dodge the trolls then have to suffer through 20 minutes of trolling
ArtumisPrime1 votesEven if it means literally 40-60 minutes of lobbies, AFTER the queue time, just to get into a game?
Wimbledofy2 votesdodging is already a legit game mechanic.... the small price you pay in lp is part of that mechanic. You don't even lose mmr for dodging, and in most cases 3 lp should not effect you.
Leetri1 votesThat's one of the worst suggestions I've seen on the boards, and that's saying something. No one would be able to play ranked at all cause people would dodge for the tiniest thing. Oh he banned my pick? Dodge. He picked a champion I don't like? Dodge. The enemy picked my champion before me? Dodge. The enemy has a better team comp than us? Dodge. We're on blue side? Dodge. This player doesn't have 100 games played with their champ? Dodge. This player lost last game? Dodge. I don't like that guy's club tag? Dodge. See the problem?
funkdubious22 votesYes, those could be reasons people use to dodge. I dont care.
If I dont like the fact that the jungler picked Riven into a heavy AP enemy team comp... why should I hope he can "make it work".
This is ranked solo queue.... there's already too many trolls running in there to justify disallowing it. As it stands now, I'm demoted to iron because of a bad loss streak, partially due to afks and other troll comps like Riven jg. People are dodging/trolling/whatever left and right. It takes almost 7 champ select attempts to actually get a game started. So all of what you described is already happening now. With a better system at least we dont have to wait through entire champ select to find out the 5th position decided to dodge.
It should clearly show that somebody wants to dodge, and it would be etiquette to explain why or part of the actual dodge function, you must select one of several options to relay why you're dodging.
Since I'm just spitballing here, I can back away from no penalties at all, perhaps 3 LP and 5 min queue wait time is appropriate. But 10 LP and 30 min queue wait time should be reserved for the troll dodgers, that dodge, say >3 times in 30 minutes
All that said, you brought up specific instances of dodges that you wouldn't like, but didn't bring up why you don't like the concept.
Stray Kat2 votesIt's super easy to see why someone wouldn't like that concept. I'd dodge every bad matchup, every Diana ban(I already do this.), every tilt seeming teammate, every bad team comp.. As would everyone else. It would be EXTREMELY obnoxious and it would artificially inflate people's winrates(Especially us 1-tricks) because they would ONLY play favorable matches.
There'd be zero point in champ bans because what's the reason to ban Yasuo when a Yasuo player is just going to dodge due to it. So is EVERYONE ELSE who gets their pick banned. There would be no reason to ban anything because only irrelevant bans would go through without a dodge.
Summoner SpeII2 votesu can take smite and try to jungle ur champion, or u can dodge, or u can go L9 and put him on ur grief list, u got one of those 3 choices
