I don't think Leona should still jump to you if you're Sivir and shield her E.

PDE5 Inhibitors·Jan 9, 2016·14 votes·1,507 views

It just doesn't make sense. You block her E, and she still gets to jump to you and stun you.

59 Comments

DrNovaJan 9, 20166 votes

Why is it dumb? Its perfectly reasonable. What, you want her shield to have yas wall level defense

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20164 votes

Because Leona's E dashes if it's hits an enemy champion. With a spell shield, you are essentially not being hit by it. So you shouldn't dash.

QuephaJan 9, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApbkGx6T,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-01-09T16:13:53.006+0000)

Because Leona's E dashes if it's hits an enemy champion. With a spell shield, you are essentially not being hit by it. So you shouldn't dash.

No, you definitely still get hit by it, otherwise stuff like ashe arrow would go through you instead of stopping, you just prevent detrimental effects to yourself.

Like if you spell shield a Karma Q while next to an ally, you don't prevent the damage THEY take from standing in the explosion.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20163 votes

So by that logic, why can't Thresh still dash to you?

QuephaJan 9, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApbkGx6T,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T16:36:58.036+0000)

So by that logic, why can't Thresh still dash to you?

Thresh can only dash to you while you're under the effect of the cc from his hook I'm pretty sure if you qss the pull then he can't dash to you, either.

Remlap1223Jan 9, 20163 votes

That is the entire point he's making. If Sivir E's away Leona's E, she won't root you. Just like Thresh can't stun you if you block his hook. So why does Leona get to dash but Amumu, Nautilus, and Thresh can't?

QuephaJan 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That is the entire point he's making. If Sivir E's away Leona's E, she won't root you. Just like Thresh can't stun you if you block his hook. So why does Leona get to dash but Amumu, Nautilus, and Thresh can't?

Because it's good for the game for champions to have good and bad matchups.

Remlap1223Jan 9, 20161 votes

That's not an argument. Leona's main function is exactly the same as Thresh's as a kill lane support. Sivir's E should function the exact same way.

QuephaJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's not an argument. Leona's main function is exactly the same as Thresh's as a kill lane support. Sivir's E should function the exact same way.

Sivir's E should work exactly the same when used against two completely different abilities?

Remlap1223Jan 9, 20162 votes

It's a package deal. Either the spell hits and you root the champ and dash to them, or it blocked and it doesn't. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

If this happened with Thresh we wouldn't even be arguing about this. Y'all would call him broken, and you'd all brigade against the champ. But because it's Leona, she gets a free pass. And y'all wonder why everyone equates the gameplay boards to simple "bronze whining."

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20161 votes

Amumu is probably the best example since it's the same exact thing. Skill shot that damages, roots, and causes you to dash to the enemy when hit.

QuephaJan 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApbkGx6T,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-09T18:08:33.808+0000)

Amumu is probably the best example since it's the same exact thing. Skill shot that damages, roots, and causes you to dash to the enemy when hit.

It doesn't root, it stuns.

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20166 votes

Or, you can just let her jump to you with E, shield her Q, and then kill her because she just went in and didn't stun anybody.

Remlap1223Jan 9, 20162 votes

It shouldn't work that way. If all Leona did was dash to you, itd be a different story, but she also roots your ass.

Not to mention any Leona worth her salt would W before she stuns so Sivir can't block the stun.

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20163 votes

{quoted}

It shouldn't work that way. If all Leona did was dash to you, itd be a different story, but she also roots your ass.

Not to mention any Leona worth her salt would W before she stuns so Sivir can't block the stun.

She's gonna wait 3 seconds for her W to go off before using Q? If you can't get out of auto range during those 3 seconds, you have a bigger problem.

Remlap1223Jan 9, 20162 votes

Yes, i forgot, a 275 range area of effect spell is auto attack range.

Your argument is kinda bullshit. Any Sion player worth their salt knows to activate their shield ahead so they can detonate it before it gets poked off. Same goes for Leona players. You don't give them a window to avoid the damage.

This isn't rocket science. Baiting out a defensive ability is a good strategy, and it can completely invalidate a Sivir, Gangplank, or Morgana player.

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20162 votes

If she's no longer close enough to Q you by the time W expires, then what are you worried about? You don't need to spell shield a sun that she's too far to apply.

Remlap1223Jan 9, 20163 votes

You do realize that her Q increases her AA range right? So in that one second you spell shield, she just aas you, and when it wears off, she aas you and Q's to get an attack reset, as well as now stunning your defenseless ass.

Seriously. Do some research on the champion before you talk about how a champion plays mechanically.

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20161 votes

I have no idea what you're even talking about. If you want to ensure that Sivir can't possibly spell shield your stun, you need to E in, and then Q the moment your W detonates so she can't possibly block the Q. If Leona is able to stick that close to you for that long, then you have bigger problems. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. And please, spare me the condescending attitude. Leona is my most played support, I know how she works.

Remlap1223Jan 9, 20162 votes

"Leona is my most played support, I know how she works."

Totally believe you on that since you couldn't figure out how to properly bait a spell shield from Sivir. If Leona's your most played support, I don't want to know how many games you've thrown with her. At least it's only in normals, as I've found no evidence that you play her in ranked, after scrolling through your match history and clicking see more a couple times. I see a ton of Gangplank and Mundo. If you play a support, you're playing Janna. I see zero Leona games recently.

Going off of teh OPGG, you have 49 games with her at a 49% win rate. Average joe player with that many Leona games under their belt has a 2% higher winrate. Going based off of this evidence alone, and the fact that you didn't have the knowledge to properly time Leona's W to waste Sivir's E so you can get a free hit off Q, or even just to wait it out, it doesn't surprise me.

I'll cut you some slack because it's obvious in your match history you don't main support, and much rather play Yasuo mid or top, so I'll let your misinformation slide. But please don't insult my intelligence. I may be Bronze, but I'm fairly certain that I have more game knowledge than about 99% of the people in my division. The only reason why I haven't climbed is because I don't have the patience to grind and support a carry that can't even last hit properly.

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20162 votes

{quoted} Going based off of this evidence alone, and the fact that you didn't have the knowledge to properly time Leona's W to waste Sivir's E so you can get a free hit off Q, or even just to wait it out, it doesn't surprise me.

Didn't I literally just explain that very process? I'm pretty sure that's what I did. I could've sworn my entire post was literally talking about using the W to get Q past the spell shied. I'm pretty sure you're the one insulting my intelligence. That, or you lack basic reading comprehension. Either or. All I know is, Diamond adcs don't just let you use W early and then E onto them; they're not that stupid. What they actually do is juke your E, wait for your W to expire, and then all in you because all you have left is your stun. Hard telegraphing your intentions might be ok against bronze and silver players but Diamond players simply aren't gonna fall for that.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApbkGx6T,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T17:46:35.533+0000)

She's gonna wait 3 seconds for her W to go off before using Q? If you can't get out of auto range during those 3 seconds, you have a bigger problem.

So you aren't one of the people that charge your W before Eing in?

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApbkGx6T,comment-id=0009000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-09T18:06:14.252+0000)

So you aren't one of the people that charge your W before Eing in?

Why the fuck would you activate W before going in? It telegraphs your intentions and wastes part of your extra tankiness, and I'm not sure why you would want to do either.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20161 votes

If you're in the bush it doesn't telegraph :)

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20161 votes

I still don't see why you'd want to activate it early. You want to root them with E, let your adc proc sunlight, Q them, proc sunlight again, and then trigger W while and get out and proc sunlight again. Using it earlier increases the chances one of your sunlight procs is wasted and makes you less tanky if you want to go for the kill.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20161 votes

Normally, but we are talking about against Sivir so that she can't block anything.

HongChongDongJan 9, 20163 votes

it's because of how the spell system works where those 2 activations are counted as 2 separate components. If you're having trouble with leona I'd suggest asking your team for a morg support, their very popular now adays with the changes to the support items and it's a good counter to leona.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20166 votes

I just think it's dumb lol. Thresh doesn't still get to dash to you if you shield his hook...

MisterHealYoGirlJan 9, 20161 votes

Amumu does dash to you, even if the damage and CC are spell shielded. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Amumu

EmbertineJan 9, 20163 votes

well it does stop the damage and the root, so it is balanced to a degree.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20163 votes

Oh boy, the 15 damage Leona does lol. The dash/stun is way worse than the root.

xSleepyJan 9, 20161 votes

ap leona is scary tho, that's a lot of damage

CatastropJan 9, 20163 votes

That's how spell shields work. If the spell has a secondary effect that isn't CC, it will go through but (obviously) block the other components.

Shrek LuigiJan 9, 20163 votes

I think Sivir should dodge Leona's E instead of persuading Riot to change a champ's mechanics because It's Too Scary

BhagswagJan 9, 20162 votes

I mean, Braum has the same "problem", as in, it's not a problem.

Shield blocks the damage, but not what comes with it. Same with Sivir; it blocks the damage. But if it was just CC and no damage, it would get blocked.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20161 votes

It actually blocks plenty of CC/damage combos. So that's not really an argument.

BhagswagJan 9, 20161 votes

Not for himself. He gets RIP's by the CC but blocks the damage.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20161 votes

No, I mean Sivir.

BranagenJan 9, 20162 votes

The " It only blocks one effect of the skill" argument doesn't hold true. Sivir's SS blocks both the damage and stun/slow of ashe's ult and her volley, it blocks both the stun and dmg of caitlyn's traps, blitz grab, thresh's hook, Leona's ult, and on and on.

RenailleJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The " It only blocks one effect of the skill" argument doesn't hold true. Sivir's SS blocks both the damage and stun/slow of ashe's ult and her volley, it blocks both the stun and dmg of caitlyn's traps, blitz grab, thresh's hook, Leona's ult, and on and on.

The damage, stun/slow of ashes are applied at the same time, the root/damage of leona's e is applied before the dash as separate effects.

OdinakosJan 9, 20161 votes

The effects you described are in the same stage, component or part. Leona's have 2 stages, first is the damage+root part (see? 2 effects here also nulified) and the second is the dash. Ashe's R has one single stage. Cait's trap were still giving you sight at least before rework, havent seen that interaction lately. Mumu's Q is a double stage also, so he can dash(2nd stage) but not damage and stun(1st)

BranagenJan 10, 20161 votes

Thresh's hook is two part, it's even two separate button presses

FrickfaceJan 9, 20162 votes

Leona always dashes to whoever her sword collides with unless cc'd. It's really not poor design for spell shields. Leona's dash for her E doesn't directly affect you, therefor it's not going to stop it. I don't see the issue here.

FistOfSharkieshaJan 9, 20166 votes

It does though. A massive part of sivir's identity and power comes from her spell shield. Spell shield has an extremely low window of being active and so it's meant to award split second reactions. When you use it while being hit by a skillshot it's meant to trump whatever ability was used and waste that while rewarding Sivir some mana. Instead with Leona, she still dashes to you and you can't avoid her stun.

QuephaJan 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It does though. A massive part of sivir's identity and power comes from her spell shield. Spell shield has an extremely low window of being active and so it's meant to award split second reactions. When you use it while being hit by a skillshot it's meant to trump whatever ability was used and waste that while rewarding Sivir some mana. Instead with Leona, she still dashes to you and you can't avoid her stun.

Abilities match up against some abilities better than others. That's how it is. Leona's just a bad matchup.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 9, 20161 votes

And I'm saying this particular interaction is dumb and should be fixed.

Answer this, why does it negative Amumu's 100% similar Q? Mumu Q is actually harder to hit since minions.

QuephaJan 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApbkGx6T,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T18:07:21.690+0000)

And I'm saying this particular interaction is dumb and should be fixed.

Answer this, why does it negative Amumu's 100% similar Q? Mumu Q is actually harder to hit since minions.

Because when Amumu's Q collides with a spell shield he doesn't dash to the target, while when Leona's E collides with a spell shield she still gets to dash to the target.

Edit: oh, I guess I'm wrong, Amumu actually DOES dash to the target even with a spell shield.

DigiDevilJan 9, 20162 votes

It works that way because Leona's E is a two part spell, Spell sheild only negates the root but the dash and the hit still count, so Leona still dashes to the hit target.

FrickfaceJan 10, 20161 votes

Sivir's spell shield is awarding enough. I don't believe there's any issue with this simply because it's how it's meant to function. Like I said, Leona's dash doesn't directly affect you, therefore if she hits it you're going to have a Leona on top of you. Realistically it'd make more sense to spell shield AFTER her E to avoid her Q. Amumu has a similar spell and it functions the same way. If the enemy has a 2 part ability that includes a dash, in example, an Ekko, then you're going to negate the damage. There's no reason for you to also negate the person that comes with it, because again, it does not directly affect you.