Enchanter Support Changes on PBE

BLIGHTBRINGER·Jun 5, 2018·4 votes·4,625 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2018/06/64-pbe-update-masters-challenge-emote.html

NOTE: That I am showcasing the changes in image form as well as text form in-case anyone isn't able to see the listed changes well enough from the images themselves.

Janna

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/9/99/Eye_of_the_Storm.png
https://i.imgur.com/nyuSmZk.png

Eye of the Storm (E) shield duration changed from 5 seconds to [decays over 5 seconds]

Karma

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c4/Inspire.png https://i.imgur.com/GRnuEXG.png

Inspire (E) shield duration lowered from 4 seconds to 2.5 seconds

Lulu

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/f/f6/Help%2C_Pix%21.png https://i.imgur.com/wGnQCHa.png

Help, Pix! (E) ally shield duration lowered from 6 seconds to 2.5 seconds

Orianna

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/6/64/Command_Protect.png https://i.imgur.com/MJR9Bw6.png

Command: Protect (E) shield duration lowered from 4 seconds to 2.5 seconds

(I don't know why her shield duration was changed, since she isn't really a support)

What are all of your thoughts on this?

46 Comments

Metal JannaJun 5, 20184 votes

Wow wtf my support Ori... 2.5 seconds is an easy amount of time to keep up with someone in this high mobility era... she'll be absolutely dumpstered.

Well, all I can do is hope Riot catches the severe winrate drop in her PBE testing and compensates her for the nerf.

Lunar ArcSJun 5, 20184 votes

Pretty sure enchanter supports arent even meta right now :o

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 5, 20185 votes

Janna is still quite the most picked support in higher elo.

nelogisJun 5, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lunar ArcS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AoIbUrdk,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-05T06:30:23.988+0000)

Pretty sure enchanter supports arent even meta right now :o

Soraka is a problem in high elo

Lunar ArcSJun 6, 20181 votes

E max soraka if anything proves my point >~>

Athenes LuluJun 5, 20184 votes

Teamfights nowadays barely last 10 seconds, so it's about time that their shield duration gets "updated" to match the speed of typical teamfights.

Enchanters finally have some more skill expression? I'll take it. Timing shields long ago have always been a thing before all that heal/shield power were given for almost free anyways.

AzadetheJun 5, 20183 votes

I think it's ill conceived when the vast majority of shields (even enchanters) are used on the self, and are part of their primary survival, given they have very little base HP, armor, etc, and their move speeds have been systematically dropped over time while their opponents have GAINED move speed.

And then you look at shields cast by other shield users..... they ALL have more effective shields, that last MUCH longer.

Rakan : Infinite until destroyed. Blitzcrank : 10 seconds and scales with 50% of his mana (so it gets HUGE) Diana : 5 Seconds (more spammable than any of these supports too) JarvanIV 5 Seconds, Spammable, gets larger with more opponents nearby Malphite : Infinite, after a reducing cooldown that scales and is more spammable as a PASSIVE than these enchanters when out of combat. Nautilus : 10 seconds..... scales down on cooldown to about 10 seconds after CDR. aka.... spammable. Rumble : Absolutely spammable. One of largest self cast shields in game. Sion 6 Seconds: Spammable. Skarner 6 Seconds: Spammable. Udyr Spammable, 5 Seconds. Urgot Spammable, 4 seconds. Viktor Insanely spammable. 2.5 seconds with down to a 2 second CDR.

Karma's friggin CDR is 10-6 Seconds. Which makes hers effective less than half of the time, while all these others are SPAMMABLE. I understand Janna's a bit. Lulu in the same boat as Karma. Orianna..... slightly less f'd than Karma and Lulu, but still F'd.

What's ironic is.... most of these champs aren't even breaking 50% win rate.

Janna and Lulu are,..... But Karma is clear down at 47%.

Orianna is 48.98%

And they are trying these shield nerfs with no consolation prize. No damage boosts. No armor boosts. Nothing.

DW DianaJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I think it's ill conceived when the vast majority of shields (even enchanters) are used on the self, and are part of their primary survival, given they have very little base HP, armor, etc, and their move speeds have been systematically dropped over time while their opponents have GAINED move speed.

And then you look at shields cast by other shield users..... they ALL have more effective shields, that last MUCH longer.

: Infinite until destroyed. : 10 seconds and scales with 50% of his mana (so it gets HUGE) : 5 Seconds (more spammable than any of these supports too) 5 Seconds, Spammable, gets larger with more opponents nearby : Infinite, after a reducing cooldown that scales and is more spammable as a PASSIVE than these enchanters when out of combat. : 10 seconds..... scales down on cooldown to about 10 seconds after CDR. aka.... spammable. : Absolutely spammable. One of largest self cast shields in game. 6 Seconds: Spammable. 6 Seconds: Spammable. Spammable, 5 Seconds. Spammable, 4 seconds. Insanely spammable. 2.5 seconds with down to a 2 second CDR.

Karma's friggin CDR is 10-6 Seconds. Which makes hers effective less than half of the time, while all these others are SPAMMABLE. I understand Janna's a bit. Lulu in the same boat as Karma. Orianna..... slightly less f'd than Karma and Lulu, but still F'd.

What's ironic is.... most of these champs aren't even breaking 50% win rate.

Janna and Lulu are,..... But Karma is clear down at 47%.

Orianna is 48.98%

And they are trying these shield nerfs with no consolation prize. No damage boosts. No armor boosts. Nothing.

Diana's shield is NOT spammable, is self targeting and is her only means of defence when diving. That's not to say I disagree with all you've said as I don't play most of the champions mentioned, but in the case of Diana you are wrong

HommeGoujonJun 5, 20181 votes

Just as a sidenote: rakan and malph don't cast their shields. CD on rakan's passive is 40 sec at lvl 1... seems decent and his E lasts 3 secs. It's not THAT effective. Malph needs to be out of fight for 8 secs to get his shields back and without his shield he loses a GREAT amount of power.

DW DianaJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Just as a sidenote: rakan and malph don't cast their shields. CD on rakan's passive is 40 sec at lvl 1... seems decent and his E lasts 3 secs. It's not THAT effective. Malph needs to be out of fight for 8 secs to get his shields back and without his shield he loses a GREAT amount of power.

Cool, as I said i don't play them so I don't know xD

HommeGoujonJun 5, 20181 votes

I actually meant to reply to Azadethe lol My bad

Malix FarwinJun 5, 20183 votes

{quoted}

CD on rakan's passive is 40 sec at lvl 1... seems decent and his E lasts 3 secs. It's not THAT effective.

The issue really is that his kit is strong despite only having the 3s shield while everyone else's was strong because of it. That means while his peers get weaker he remains strong and he is stronger then they are live(with the exception of Janna of course).

HommeGoujonJun 5, 20181 votes

His A and E just got nerfed but his kit remains very strong I agree. I think it's because he's so versatile/mobile and his R is VERY strong. Also he can recast his E so maybe they should increase the mana cost of his skills so that he has to be more careful as to when to use them.

AzadetheJun 5, 20183 votes

Malph's highest level shield rest is 6 seconds. And it can be affected by CDR.

Rakan's Self shield is extremely powerful. Try playing him sometime. P.S. Its cooldown gets reduced when Rakan basic attacks..... and it's a large carry around shield that doesn't decay.

His E can last up to 6 seconds if you use it right. It's 3 seconds PER BOUNCE.

HommeGoujonJun 5, 20181 votes

"extremely powerful" and "large shield" is just your opinion but w/e (Late game is too powerful imo). I've played him some times but thanks for the advice. PS: Its cooldown gets reduced when Rakan basic attacks on enemy champion. 3 seconds per bounce indeed (the second cast should have a mana cost imo). But you have to bounce to the person you're shielding so you potentially expose yourself to some risky situation while lulu can shield you from a distance and land a Q from afar as well. I do think he needs more nerfs but I don't think his shield is too strong in terms of power. CD and mana cost should be increased. Thanks for correcting me tho! Especially the malph one I don't know why I thought it was 8...

AzadetheJun 5, 20181 votes

Sorry..... but when I play Rakan.... I never bounce FORWARD to anyone..... unless I have a point blank shot to Q, and finalize with a R or W. Using E to move toward enemies is dumb. You will die 9 times out of 10, and give 2 kills instead of one.

He doesn't need nerfs. His problem is his kit was ill conceived. Nerfs/buffs will never really change HOW he works, which is the issue..... when it's an issue. I mean in a team fight he's downright normal of a champ.

It's at Epic monsters he's broken. Spammable aoe heal.... But I honestly don't mind that.... because... it allows Rakan to play other roles than support. No champ should get stuck in one role. Especially a role where it's sink or swim based on your ALLY.

HommeGoujonJun 5, 20182 votes

I can't wrap my head around what you wrote in the beginning. If your ally is not in the range of an enemy you don't need to shield him. So when you shield that ally you also get into enemy's range that's all I was saying. You came up with that "FORWARD" and "toward enemies" thing. If it was me who was unclear, then my bad. In a teamfight is when he's the strongest in my opinion so I don't know why you're saying he's "normal" in tf. Also I think our definition of spammable is not the same. If you build 45% cdr on any champ they all have spammable abilities I just don't see what's wrong. So let's not waste more time here coz I don't think I'm able to understand you. Still, thanks for the posts.

AzadetheJun 5, 20183 votes

Diana's W:

Pale Cascade EFFECT RADIUS: 200 COST: 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 MANA COOLDOWN: 10 Pale Cascade ACTIVE: Diana shields herself for up to 5 seconds and creates three spheres that orbit her for the duration, detonating upon contact with an enemy and dealing magic damage to nearby enemies upon detonation.

SHIELD STRENGTH:» 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 (+ 30% AP) MAGIC DAMAGE PER ORB:» 22 / 34 / 46 / 58 / 70 (+ 20% AP) If all three spheres detonate, Pale Cascade's shield is reapplied, stacking with its original shield, and its duration is refreshed.

She gains a shield on Cast, and then it gets reapplied if she hits her W's. Yes. It's an engage shield. But it also has a 5 second INITIAL duration that can be refreshed for another 5 seconds, and has a Base CD of 10 seconds. At 6 Seconds on CDR, That's spammable as f.

DW DianaJun 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Diana's W:

Pale Cascade EFFECT RADIUS: 200 COST: 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 MANA COOLDOWN: 10 Pale Cascade ACTIVE: Diana shields herself for up to 5 seconds and creates three spheres that orbit her for the duration, detonating upon contact with an enemy and dealing magic damage to nearby enemies upon detonation.

SHIELD STRENGTH:» 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 (+ 30% AP) MAGIC DAMAGE PER ORB:» 22 / 34 / 46 / 58 / 70 (+ 20% AP) If all three spheres detonate, Pale Cascade's shield is reapplied, stacking with its original shield, and its duration is refreshed.

She gains a shield on Cast, and then it gets reapplied if she hits her W's. Yes. It's an engage shield. But it also has a 5 second INITIAL duration that can be refreshed for another 5 seconds, and has a Base CD of 10 seconds. At 6 Seconds on CDR, That's spammable as f.

Awesome, I like it when people make comments about champions they don't play or don't play against enough to know their kit well, relying on copy/paste from wiki...

To enlighten allow me to explain: Diana's shield CD starts from the point where her W has run out. That is she has a mini shield for 5 seconds, then a potential stacking shield atfer the 3 orbs have detonated, THEN the CD starts after the final effect of the orbs are done. If the CD started from the point she cast W then yes, spammable, but riot made sure this wasn't a possibility.

Play her, learn her, make comments regarding her balance.

Edit: Also should note it costs more than 10% of her total mana to cast)

AzadetheJun 5, 20182 votes

That's still potential for overlapping because of the re-trigger shield. The CD begins when the orbs are down, not when the shield is down.

And I have played Diana several times. Especially after Blood Moon came out (skin was just beautiful).

DW DianaJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's still potential for overlapping because of the re-trigger shield. The CD begins when the orbs are down, not when the shield is down.

And I have played Diana several times. Especially after Blood Moon came out (skin was just beautiful).

There is absolutely no chance of overlap. It lasts 5 seconds, the cd is 10. That means there is a minimum of 5 second without overlap. Also this is a entire defence when cs'ing. Unlike most other midlaner melee she has no ability to engage pre 6 so needs this protection, and again it uses more that 10% of her mana to use this.

That skin was released about a year ago and a half ago...

AzadetheJun 5, 20181 votes

You. Don't. Understand.

Diana builds item 3115 item 3100 . She has 40% CDR in her first 2 items (and now a hyper buffed jungle item)

CD is then 6 seconds. Her initial Shield lasts 5 seconds, and is refreshed when the orbs are finished hitting. Aka.... a 5 Sec shield into her 6 Second Cooldown.

That leaves her exactly 1 second without a shield.

And her mechanics have not changed since that skin was released.

As for mid csing.... Um....

Mana use is TRIVIAL. Almost all mages and even AD's have skills that use 1/10 their mana. Get over it. Manaflow recovers it. So does starting items etc... 1/10 your mana is very low on the spectrum of costs. Lux's uses 1/4. Ornn's uses 1/3rd.

DW DianaJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You. Don't. Understand.

Diana builds . She has 40% CDR in her first 2 items (and now a hyper buffed jungle item)

CD is then 6 seconds. Her initial Shield lasts 5 seconds, and is refreshed when the orbs are finished hitting. Aka.... a 5 Sec shield into her 6 Second Cooldown.

That leaves her exactly 1 second without a shield.

And her mechanics have not changed since that skin was released.

As for mid csing.... Um....

Mana use is TRIVIAL. Almost all mages and even AD's have skills that use 1/10 their mana. Get over it. Manaflow recovers it. So does starting items etc... 1/10 your mana is very low on the spectrum of costs. Lux's uses 1/4. Ornn's uses 1/3rd.

Wow that's an old build. Nashors rush into lichbane hasn't been a standard build on her since... We'll you played her I guess lol. Lets catch you up a bit.

Her e was changed AGES ago to give her a scaling increase to attack speed after using an ability for 3 autos making nashors rush pointless.

Also you're talking mid/lategame now where she looks to 1 shot people before dying (I believe the next item back then was zonyas for that reason). She has since looked to build either revolver into Oblivion orb and sorc boots or Roa into those 2 for the magic pen true damage (still works but not best). This was back in the "poke mage" meta like Xerath and azir.

Currently the standard for her is AP. Whatever the match up requires as long as it has AP. Zed/talon obviously zonyas, lb banshees, if you can get away with it deathcap (this last one is what most high elo mains do).

In no case does she rush cdr because it's just not worth it anymore, she 1 shots squishies and everything scales off ap. This MIGHT change with the new runes, but it's doubtful. Lichbane is ok on her, but isn't really massively important.

Finally manaflow band. Going sorc on diana is... lets say RARE. Electrocute into resolve is prettymuch the standard, though going into inspiration isn't unheard of either, and in jungle some go precision secondary for legend alacrity. Diana has always had mana troubles, and building AP and hitting your passive is the best way to manage this. But this takes time, thus the W to protect while taking cs. Tripple dorans has also made a return. For this reason.

So now you're back up to date and realise 40%cdr is a rare thing even on a full build diana, manaflow band is not exactly used on her, can you understand why I was surprised about the "spam" w comment lol?

AzadetheJun 5, 20181 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Diana/

No. It's not an old build. it's literally the current build in every. single. build. path.

DW DianaJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Diana/

No. It's not an old build. it's literally the current build in every. single. build. path.

http://na.op.gg/champion/diana/statistics/mid

http://champion.gg/champion/Diana/Middle?league=

Note the highest winrate builds. Saying "53%of people build it! It must be good!" When like you they're using old information and giving her a 49% winrate doesn't mean it's best.

Don't take my word for it though, check youtube and find someone rushing it lol

Also it's generally built when you are in jungle for better clear...

AzadetheJun 5, 20181 votes

Op.GG is not a stat site. Its stat records borrow from other sites.

Champion. GG updates friggin 3 days later than every other stat site? "Old data?" Champion. GG also throws out roles that are nontraditional or low representation on a champ, so their stats are skewed.

P.S. I noticed you limited your search to "Korea" not Rank/World. I see what you did thar.......

DW DianaJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Op.GG is not a stat site. Its stat records borrow from other sites.

Really? Never heard that before. Which sites? And where do those sites get their stats from?

Champion. GG updates friggin 3 days later than every other stat site? "Old data?" Champion. GG also throws out roles that are nontraditional or low representation on a champ, so their stats are skewed.

They draw from riots own data... again nowhere does it say it does this 3 day late. Where are you finding this information?

P.S. I noticed you limited your search to "Korea" not Rank/World. I see what you did thar.......

Didn't even realise. Nope, just checked. I went for full stats, didn't bother changing the region from world. Not sure you even can when searching for the detailed stats.

Edit: another interesting point. A lot of these sites only show the first completed items, not partial.

jocomotionJun 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I think it's ill conceived when the vast majority of shields (even enchanters) are used on the self, and are part of their primary survival, given they have very little base HP, armor, etc, and their move speeds have been systematically dropped over time while their opponents have GAINED move speed.

And then you look at shields cast by other shield users..... they ALL have more effective shields, that last MUCH longer.

: Infinite until destroyed. : 10 seconds and scales with 50% of his mana (so it gets HUGE) : 5 Seconds (more spammable than any of these supports too) 5 Seconds, Spammable, gets larger with more opponents nearby : Infinite, after a reducing cooldown that scales and is more spammable as a PASSIVE than these enchanters when out of combat. : 10 seconds..... scales down on cooldown to about 10 seconds after CDR. aka.... spammable. : Absolutely spammable. One of largest self cast shields in game. 6 Seconds: Spammable. 6 Seconds: Spammable. Spammable, 5 Seconds. Spammable, 4 seconds. Insanely spammable. 2.5 seconds with down to a 2 second CDR.

While I agree with your argument for Ori and Karma needing compensation buffs for this, as well as Lulu. I need to address something. Self shields, automatic self shields (ones you can’t control) and gifted shields are vastly different in terms of power,

gifted gives the most flexibility, but tend to be weaker in contrast (except for Janna for some reason). These are the shields riot wants addressed.
what I don’t understand is why they didn’t target E with them. I understand why not or since two of their shields aren’t to strong and one shield is an ultimate.
self shields should be stronger, but at the expense of not being able to shield others, and usually having a longer cooldown than most gifted shields.
With the exception of Vicktor and Rumble being a fairly squishy battlemages without their shields.
automatic self shields should be the strongest, but you have little to no control over when they pop/activate.
Which is why Rakan’s and Maphites stay on forever and why Blitzcrank’s onlu avtivate when he’s low

It’s also important to bring up the spamabulity of enchanter shields too, since they outclas most champions in terms of how often they can shield teammates.

Karma E goes down to a 4.8 second cooldown with 40% CDR. Ori’s ball gets to a 5.4 second cooldown Lulu and Janna E goes to 6 second cooldow

VICHEL CHAOSJun 5, 20181 votes

Fine, make Janna, Lulu etc only be able to shield themselves but keep their shields as they are. Would you be fine with it?

Arisha the DarkJun 5, 20182 votes

Because now shields are very easy to use. As soon as opponent engages just cast on ally and that's it. You don't need to time them or even wait for ally to have low health like with heals. Those changes are a good way of balancing shields without nerfing their power.

ChaddyFantomeJun 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arisha the Dark,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AoIbUrdk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-05T06:07:55.084+0000)

even wait for ally to have low health like with heals.

Why even pretend like this is a thing outside raka ulti? Even Soraka's Ultimate is just within a flat threshold.

BisaknospJun 5, 20182 votes

bullshit assassin meta incoming

NoPaxtJun 5, 20182 votes

Why are we decreasing shield power at the same time we're buffing damage?

Teridax68Jun 5, 20182 votes

It's a step forward, imo. I still think there's a lot more progress to be made, as I don't think durations are the only thing wrong with shields right now, and I dislike extending Maw's shield duration, but at the very least this cuts deep into the issue of shields acting as near-permanent extra health bars in fights.

Stuff I'd like to see in the future:

Tying bonuses to the shield holding. This I think needs to happen with any shield that has an attached bonus, and I'd personally support reverting Lulu's shield duration, albeit with a nerf to its strength, if it meant having Pix return to Lulu the moment the shield is popped.
Shortening purely defensive shields even more, while perhaps buffing their strength. Orianna's shield offers nothing but defense, for example, and I think deserves to be able to block much larger amounts of damage during a shorter window.
Addressing item shields. Itemization is a major problem behind the excessive presence of shields, yet nothing seems to have been affected yet. Hexdrinker/Maw, Seraph's, and Locket especially all need to be reexamined in this respect.

ChaddyFantomeJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's a step forward, imo. I still think there's a lot more progress to be made, as I don't think durations are the only thing wrong with shields right now, and I dislike extending Maw's shield duration, but at the very least this cuts deep into the issue of shields acting as near-permanent extra health bars in fights.

I disagree.

Stuff I'd like to see in the future:

Tying bonuses to the shield holding.

Terrible idea. Not everyone needs to be Janna clone.

This I think needs to happen with any shield that has an attached bonus, and I'd personally support reverting Lulu's shield duration, albeit with a nerf to its strength, if it meant having Pix return to Lulu the moment the shield is popped.

Now lulu can never use her Q because she can never reliably position pix to extend it. This creates jank and inconsistent gameplay for no real reason.

Same applies to orianna her ball. Wiffing her Ulti because teamates get out of range is bad enough.

Shortening purely defensive shields even more, while perhaps buffing their strength. Orianna's shield offers nothing but defense, for example, and I think deserves to be able to block much larger amounts of damage during a shorter window.

Because Orianna is a much more potent offensive champion, buffing her shield is silly and stupid. Would make her too much of an all rounder for no real reason.

Addressing item shields. Itemization is a major problem behind the excessive presence of shields, yet nothing seems to have been affected yet. Hexdrinker/Maw, Seraph's, and Locket especially all need to be reexamined in this respect.

Locket has already heen repeatedly nerfed. Maw shiedl is irrelevant in regards to enchanter shielding.

Teridax68Jun 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Terrible idea. Not everyone needs to be Janna clone.

I'm sorry, how does this make anyone a "Janna clone"? Is the bonus popping with the shield somehow a defining characteristic of Janna's entire playstyle? This is the same kind of argument as trying to say that any champion with a skillshot is a Morgana clone, which I hope you realize is utterly ridiculous.

{quoted}

Now lulu can never use her Q because she can never reliably position pix to extend it. This creates jank and inconsistent gameplay for no real reason.

What, because Lulu's shield gets popped the moment it's applied? Are you sure about that?

{quoted}

Same applies to orianna her ball. Wiffing her Ulti because teamates get out of range is bad enough.

I don't think you read my point properly there. I mentioned Orianna's shield was a purely defensive effect, i.e. a shield without any sort of conditional bonus attached, besides maybe the bonus resists the Ball provides. I am not asking for the Ball to return to Orianna once the shield expires.

{quoted}

Because Orianna is a much more potent offensive champion, buffing her shield is silly and stupid. Would make her too much of an all rounder for no real reason.

Except I suggested shortening the duration even more as well. You misunderstand me again: I am not asking to buff Orianna or her shield, I am asking to concentrate her shield into a shorter window so she can clutch-block certain effects better, without having as much persistent protection.

{quoted}

Locket has already heen repeatedly nerfed.

Yet the item is still strong, and still overpicked. Its prior history of nerfs is irrelevant in this respect.

{quoted}

Maw shiedl is irrelevant in regards to enchanter shielding.

Except the topic here is shielding in general, not simply enchanter shielding. Orianna is not an enchanter, for example, yet still had her shielding nerfed, and Maw got changed in the same PBE update. Where exactly were you getting the impression that this was only about enchanters?

Done25Jun 5, 20182 votes

They 100% better buff some other parts of their kits to make up for this. (Ex. Faster travel time on Ori's E.)

Otherwise support will be even more of an auto fill role than it already is. (Time to become a Pyke main I suppose.)

Malix FarwinJun 5, 20182 votes

I was expecting a hit on effectiveness, not duration. Likely see Rakan be an even higher meta support now considering his kit wasn't touched at all and he already outclassed those supports with the exception of Janna.

Another note, i find it interesting that Lulu took a harder hit from Shields then any other champion(others lost 1.5s while while she lost 3.5s) which makes most of the effect of her shield useless now. She isnt as well as the other shield supports(about average WR that most champs should be around sitting at 49%). If they wanted to hit her harder than everyone else they should of compensated her in other areas away from shielding.

HommeGoujonJun 5, 20181 votes

The rest of lulu's kit remains pretty strong & cancerous imo. Also as I just said in a reply to u, Rakan's Q/E just got nerfed. Maybe it needs more nerfs but still his kit was not "untouched".

Colton147Jun 5, 20182 votes

Lulu needs her polymorph duration increased for compensation.

ChaddyFantomeJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

needs her polymorph duration increased for compensation.

Polymorph is the last thing i would compensation buff.

I want my slow scaling on Q back. :/

Daddy AntsJun 5, 20181 votes

How about some assassin nerfs to accompany these shield nerfs?

Zed Talon in particular.

{quoted}

I think it's ill conceived when the vast majority of shields (even enchanters) are used on the self, and are part of their primary survival, given they have very little base HP, armor, etc, and their move speeds have been systematically dropped over time while their opponents have GAINED move speed.

And then you look at shields cast by other shield users..... they ALL have more effective shields, that last MUCH longer.

: Infinite until destroyed. : 10 seconds and scales with 50% of his mana (so it gets HUGE) : 5 Seconds (more spammable than any of these supports too) 5 Seconds, Spammable, gets larger with more opponents nearby : Infinite, after a reducing cooldown that scales and is more spammable as a PASSIVE than these enchanters when out of combat. : 10 seconds..... scales down on cooldown to about 10 seconds after CDR. aka.... spammable. : Absolutely spammable. One of largest self cast shields in game. 6 Seconds: Spammable. 6 Seconds: Spammable. Spammable, 5 Seconds. Spammable, 4 seconds. Insanely spammable. 2.5 seconds with down to a 2 second CDR.

Karma's friggin CDR is 10-6 Seconds. Which makes hers effective less than half of the time, while all these others are SPAMMABLE. I understand Janna's a bit. Lulu in the same boat as Karma. Orianna..... slightly less f'd than Karma and Lulu, but still F'd.

What's ironic is.... most of these champs aren't even breaking 50% win rate.

Janna and Lulu are,..... But Karma is clear down at 47%.

Orianna is 48.98%

And they are trying these shield nerfs with no consolation prize. No damage boosts. No armor boosts. Nothing.

Inspire (E) COOLDOWN: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8

With 40% CDR that becomes a 4.2 second cooldown at rank 5.

4.8 second cooldown shield with a 4 second duration.

Help! Pix (E) Cooldown: 10 at all ranks

With 40% CDR that becomes a 6 second cooldown at rank 5.

6 second duration shield on a 6 second cooldown...

ankoanko19Jun 5, 20181 votes

I do think Lulu and Janna needed their shields to be nerfed in duration but idk about Karma and Ori. Karma & Ori seem fine to me.

ChaddyFantomeJun 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I do think Lulu and Janna needed their shields to be nerfed in duration but idk about Karma and Ori. Karma & Ori seem fine to me.

Orianna item 3040 item 3089 item 3135 item 3020 item 3174 item 3107 Summon Aery + summoner 21

Whistles~

KZ EngelJun 5, 20181 votes

YES to all but ori. ori needs that 4 seconds. her shield has a potential delay, unlike the rest of them. the others are cancer because of how instant, massive, AND persistent they are

VICHEL CHAOSJun 5, 20181 votes

Finally!