one applied at the begining of the kick, and an other when the knock back finishes
why? because he needs to be broken and 600+2.0 bonus AD (+21% of bonus hp) damage isn't enough, he should have an easy mode Q hitting
http://st.elohell.net/public/chill/9d18f9b5b8d7d650986ce0f68074c110.jpg
360D3GR3SS40 votesIts actually better than a stun since you cannot cleanse it.
Mr Broken Wings4 votesIts actually better than a stun since you cannot cleanse it.
you cant cleanse any knockup btw ( well TECHNICALLY YOU CAN but thats nothing people often do because you need flash for it as well)
360D3GR3SS26 votesThe beginning of his ulti isn't a knock up. I know you cannot cleanse a knock up and you cannot cleanse suppression. Lee sin basically suppresses his target until the kick is finished.
Auz the Ripper1 votesYou can QSS knock-ups, but it only allows you to do things like cast skills and use flash it doesn't stop the displacement
Orangesilk2 votesI've said it before, I'll say it again:
That mini stun is there for a mechanical reliability reason though. It's a knockback that knocks you away from Lee Sin, and it has a cast time, that while minuscule, is there, so since on melee range even a very slight movement can change your orientation and thus the direction that Lee Sin moves you to, without that mini stun to ensure a proper direction, it'd be a wildly unreliable tool only useful for peeling, since it'd just send people somewhere.
For the Insec maneuver to work, it needs that mini stun because without that maneuver, what little utility Lee has in a teamfight is completely lost forever.
Tik1152 votesThen why doesn't Skarners ult have that benefit? Why not Poppy E E? Or Alistar W? Or Jayce E?
Or ANY OTHER Displacement with a small cast time?
Saying it's because he's Melee is not a valid reason when other melees with displacement don't have that benefit
Solidair326 votesAre we finally back to the part of the Lee Sin cycle where he's too strong again?
Goodness it's been a while.
Keevalroy15 votesGoodness it's been a while.
It has? He was in an okay spot during the Cinderhulk meta, then at the same time tanks and Cinderhulk were nerfed repeatedly, he was buffed to the point where he was back to being in every other game again. He never truly went away because he was only what could be considered "absent" for like 2 months or so.
I wonder what would happen if a rework would be proposed now that he's noticeably too strong again; would the pros throw a holy-shit-fit? Would Reddit cry again that the pro scene mascot wouldn't be so flashy and obnoxious anymore? Or how about the most important question about all of this; can the balance team continue to shield him from harm seeing how dominant he is again? I mean, following my conspiracy logic, they should have no issues with nerfing him for the time being seeing as the LCS won't start for months, but at the same time, Yasuo wasn't changed when everyone with a functioning brain could see how strong he would be in the preseason...so I don't know.
I GANK LANES3 votesalmost all of season 5 he was sittin at like a 45-46% win rate, literally the whole season. now people say he's extremely strong and he's still not over 50
SEKAI12 votes[{quoted}](name=Nerf my Q,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AnkTjTQV,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-23T19:14:59.074+0000)
almost all of season 5 he was sittin at like a 45-46% win rate, literally the whole season. now people say he's extremely strong and he's still not over 50
LB was utterly unbearable when she still had her silence, and guess what, she had a consistent 46% win rate.
Win rate is influenced by many factors, taking it as an evidence without considering the factors behind is quite literally "taking words out of context".
Lee has consistently maintained a high pick rate, his win rate is therefore expected to be low in the first place (as in the extreme case of high popularity champs that would mean they appear in every game or even on both sides in norms, hard locking the win rate to 50%. Hence realistically highly popular champs are expected to have sub 50% win rate). And because he was no longer top tier in S5 until its latter stages, you'd also expect his win rate to drop just a bit more. So it's absolutely understandable why he has been sporting a 45-46% win rate.
But that doesn't mean he is in a bad spot, not at all. If anything, it's pretty surprising he was actually maintaining a 45-46% win rate during S5, even when there were Cinderhulk Gragas and Sej and later, Devourer junglers running wild. I think that's saying something.
l Main Renekton6 votesBut Brand isn't oppressive at a 57% winrate.
SEKAI1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nick Ingram,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AnkTjTQV,comment-id=00030000000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-23T20:01:13.760+0000)
But Brand isn't oppressive at a 57% winrate.
I haven't seen Brand in a while so I won't know. Still it doesn't change the fact Lee is currently the most picked champ, has almost triple the amount of players Brand has, and almost 45 times the popularity of the lowest picked champ, Urgot.
Now the fun factor fallacy aside and look at this objectively. Do you seriously not think there is something utterly wrong with the champ balance when a ridiculous pick rate disparity such as this is present in the game?
Slamurai Jack3 votesNo? I guarantee the Yankee's have at least 45x as many fans as the Royals, who just won the World Series. Doesn't mean jack shit. The Royals are still the far better team.
SEKAI6 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AnkTjTQV,comment-id=0003000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-23T20:40:23.792+0000)
No? I guarantee the Yankee's have at least 45x as many fans as the Royals, who just won the World Series. Doesn't mean jack shit. The Royals are still the far better team.
In League it means the win rate is highly unreliable as a reference due to the extreme pick rate disparity between champs, is what I'm getting at.
Fans of a team are not the same as players of a champ. Because one is merely cheering for the crew while the other is using it themselves.
LankPants1 votesWhat you said is more to do with meta-competitive than the actual game. That statement could be applied to something like TSM and OG going into worlds where TSM had more fans but were a clearly inferior team but it really just isn't applicable to champions.
If you want to make a sports metaphor here champions aren't the teams, they're the bats that the players use, baseball's also a useless analogy as the bats are so heavily regulated and almost all the same so I'm going to use Cricket instead since players can customise their bats more.
Generally most players use medium weight bats. They're easy to use and unless you specialise into a lighter or heavier bat they're far better. Medium weight bats do however have the lowest average runs scored out of any bat despite generally being the best.
Why is this? Because the only people who use light and heavy bats are specialists. A lot of players who aren't particularly good batsman (bowlers, which would be equivalent to people who play other lanes) will use the medium weight bats and drag the statistics for them down. That doesn't make the bat any less optimal, it just means that to be good with a different bat you need to be a very skilled batsman.
Moreover people who actually do use bats of different weights, for example David Warner who uses a heavy bat tend to be some of the best batsmen in the world. That helps to drive up the statistics of heavier bats especially.
Synx73 votesIt has? He was in an okay spot during the Cinderhulk meta, then at the same time tanks and Cinderhulk were nerfed repeatedly, he was buffed to the point where he was back to being in every other game again. He never truly went away because he was only what could be considered "absent" for like 2 months or so.
I wonder what would happen if a rework would be proposed now that he's noticeably too strong again; would the pros throw a holy-shit-fit? Would Reddit cry again that the pro scene mascot wouldn't be so flashy and obnoxious anymore? Or how about the most important question about all of this; can the balance team continue to shield him from harm seeing how dominant he is again? I mean, following my conspiracy logic, they should have no issues with nerfing him for the time being seeing as the LCS won't start for months, but at the same time, Yasuo wasn't changed when everyone with a functioning brain could see how strong he would be in the preseason...so I don't know.
A rework was actually proposed but "Community backlash" , so they reverted the rework.
Meanwhile 
.
They even buffed Lee Win to be ready for Worlds. It's riot poster boy, it'll be never hard nerfed. Maybe he'll be nerfed, by -5ms nerf lol.
Keevalroy5 votesMaybe he'll be nerfed, by -5ms nerf lol.
"Ruined"
KappaRoss
Traxinator3 votesHe isn't ruined until he gets the -.03% attack speed nerf. 
Kappa2.0
Valexfor1 votesHe will be nerfed by giving him 100% total hp global true damage on Q!
A Miss Fortune1 votesI don't think the pros were the ones mad, just the Redditors. Pretty sure a few of them had heart attacks that day when Lee Sin was proposed to be reworked/nerfed.
Stephenizgod1 votesIts not a cycle for me, its always been something i thought was total bullshit. He does not need a guarantee to hit his ult, no one else does. Hell Malzahar's ult, which is supposed to be an instant suppression, is not even instant as you can still cast CC to cancel the suppression you are suppose to already be under the effects of. So yea, i think they can remove one of his two stuns (preferably the first one)...
Phuc Dat Bich2 votesAre we finally back to the part of the Lee Sin cycle where he's too strong again?
Goodness it's been a while.
well he is broken since release and the fact that EVERY year everyone complain about lee and riot is like "hmm lee must be weak lets buff him a bit" like they did 5 patches ago
Yeah ITS STUPID
SEKAI6 votesPeople say that "yeah but you have to land his Q".
Well, he has his entire kit making sure he lands that god damned Q (W, E and that base MS). Then after the Q is on your arse you'd just die from a followed up RQ (or nearly) anyway because some arsehole thought giving a basic spell a 8% missing HP damage on top of the 180% bonus AD is a great fkin' idea.
And better yet, the R is a load of stat pool, can be effective on the entire enemy team, has non-existent CD for an ultimate and 0 resource cost when using it.
Totally legit Riot.
Oh and you just have to buff him completely unnecessarily for Worlds and purposely forgetting to nerf him down afterwards.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/75/75c43981d5e81d09592ba0f1cb50af5873ccdbe7f2bd035c1ddada11f3804bda.jpg
luckmallory5 votesHis Q is a straight line skill shot just like 100 other abilities in the game. It isn't easy mode to hit, unless every other skillshot is easy mode to hit then you are basically saying skillshots are pointless because they are so easy to land
KONO RUBICK DA1 votesHis Q is a straight line skill shot just like 100 other abilities in the game. It isn't easy mode to hit, unless every other skillshot is easy mode to hit then you are basically saying skillshots are pointless because they are so easy to land
he can kick you, and then press Q you can't dodge it because you're stunned at the end
luckmallory1 votesHe also has to be in melee range to kick you.
He can't just teleport to you if you are saving your Q for after the R
KONO RUBICK DA2 votesHe also has to be in melee range to kick you.
He can't just teleport to you if you are saving your Q for after the R
you're kha zix, he is lee.
he invade you at lvl 6-7 you're doing 1v1 while moving with ulti and E suddenly he kicks you and press Q you can't dodge it and get 600 or 700 undodgeable damage while you have between 800 and 950 hp.
"but he must be in front of you !!"
luckmallory1 votesLevel Six Kha' Zix Damage
Passive- 110 Q= 362 W=140 E= 77
Total= 689 Damage
Lee Sin Level 6 Damage
Q=330 E=120 R=320
Total= 770 Damage
Kha does comparable damage to lee in a 1 v 1 assuming lee hits his R-Q-Q combo like you said and this is also assuming Kha only gets one Q which in most cases he will get two with how low of a cooldown it is.
The funny thing is lee sin counters Kha and all of this is still true
KONO RUBICK DA1 votesLevel Six Kha' Zix Damage
Passive- 110 Q= 362 W=140 E= 77
Total= 689 Damage
Lee Sin Level 6 Damage
Q=330 E=120 R=320
Total= 770 Damage
Kha does comparable damage to lee in a 1 v 1 assuming lee hits his R-Q-Q combo like you said and this is also assuming Kha only gets one Q which in most cases he will get two with how low of a cooldown it is.
The funny thing is lee sin counters Kha and all of this is still true
how come you didn't take in account that lee sin has % missing hp damage on his Q,? and he has 40% attack speed buff nearly every time which increase his damage by a TON, lmao
luckmallory1 votesIf you want to take a full duel into account instead of just abilities then you have to give Kha 2 q's as the cooldown is 2 seconds.
Also the missing health damage would do a bonus 40 damage if they were missing 500 health and that is a lot at level 6 to be missing.
so if we add the 40 bonus damage and 3 auto's (120 AD) then his total damage is 1170
If we give Kha his second Q and only two autos (120 AD) then his total damage is 1291
It is actually higher.
Also keep in mind that Lee Sin counters Kha'zix
Try that same shit with a shyvanna or an udyr or a xin. It is easy to pick a champion that lee counters for your point and even that point got destroyed.
commit an hero2 votesHe also has to be in melee range to kick you.
He can't just teleport to you if you are saving your Q for after the R
His ult has a cast range of 375.
Popstar Ahri5 votesOH BOY A LEE SIN NERF THREAD
I CAN GET BEHIND THIS!!
+1
Mr Broken Wings4 votesno, in fact because his ult would be useless if they would change that. If you could flash mid ult as enemy his ult would be pretty shitty, obviously. Its intended as hard cc and not as " use your e ezreal and escape" spell. I feel like lee has too much in his kit, but attacking his ult is the wrong way. Take possibilities in his kit, he has too much disengage and engage options at once. Maybe something like " lee can only use his w x times in a short amount of time, after that he gets exhausted and cant cast the spell". Wouldnt that make more sense and him more fair? I feel like his mobility is what people dont like about him in particular ( equally like rivens escapes, lee sins escapes can be bullshit). What do you think?
KONO RUBICK DA4 votes[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AnkTjTQV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-23T15:42:08.122+0000)
no, in fact because his ult would be useless if they would change that. If you could flash mid ult as enemy his ult would be pretty shitty, obviously. Its intended as hard cc and not as " use your e ezreal and escape" spell. I feel like lee has too much in his kit, but attacking his ult is the wrong way. Take possibilities in his kit, he has too much disengage and engage options at once. Maybe something like " lee can only use his w x times in a short amount of time, after that he gets exhausted and cant cast the spell". Wouldnt that make more sense and him more fair? I feel like his mobility is what people dont like about him in particular ( equally like rivens escapes, lee sins escapes can be bullshit). What do you think?
every point and click spells can be dodged by flashing, ((
)) but yea lee sin needs to be overpowered
it's intended to be an assassination spell, it deals 600+2.0 bonus AD, the knock back is here to cc the other champs like tanks, it shouldn't stun the primar targetn are you seriously thinking that an assassin should have a hard cc? if it hurts him so much they can just replace it by a root
and remove the freaking stun at the end of the ulti
Mr Broken Wings3 votesevery point and click spells can be dodged by flashing, ((
it's intended to be an assassination spell, it deals 600+2.0 bonus AD, the knock back is here to cc the other champs like tanks, it shouldn't stun the primar targetn are you seriously thinking that an assassin should have a hard cc? if it hurts him so much they can just replace it by a root
and remove the freaking stun at the end of the ulti
You in fact cant flash the damage of the jarvan ult, its funny that you bring him up. And alistars knockup combo and jarvans combo are delayed, obviously you can flash it. Lees ult is instant, there is difference. You cant flash skarner ult as well, can you? Or malz ult etc. And removing his "Kick" in his ult ( what is his hardcc) would make him pretty boring, maybe lower his damage instead? I feel like the damage stats of his ult are over the top anyway.
kile1478 votesYou can kinda flash Malzahar ult. If you flash during the cast time you can get a ton of distance before you are suppressed, making follow up difficult. Lee's ult doesn't feel instant because while walking his ult briefly stops you, then launches you, then briefly stops you once you land. This makes it difficult to prevent follow up.
Ralanr2 votesevery point and click spells can be dodged by flashing, ((
it's intended to be an assassination spell, it deals 600+2.0 bonus AD, the knock back is here to cc the other champs like tanks, it shouldn't stun the primar targetn are you seriously thinking that an assassin should have a hard cc? if it hurts him so much they can just replace it by a root
and remove the freaking stun at the end of the ulti
: Ahem.
His Q doesn't miss, even if you flash. I've seen it happen and I've done it.
Aír4 votes
: Shit Lee Sin ult is just too strong, there is nothing we can do to stop him
: has purchased Banshee's Veil
: uses spellsheild
An Enemy has Been Slain 
http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1287666826226.png
SEKAI10 votes[{quoted}](name=Airman CompSci,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AnkTjTQV,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-11-23T19:28:12.623+0000)
http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1287666826226.png
Unless you're talking about late game otherwise there is no way for Sivir to rush a BV and expect to be useful. Not to mention, Lee can pop them fairly easily with Q spamming.
Ulquiorra9955 votes Uses his 9-second base cool down, resourceless, insanely fast missile to pop Sivir's BV.
Uses his instant-cast E to pop her spell shield, since his Q got back because it has 4x less CD than BV.
Kicks her back anyway.
Aside from the fact that no Sivir worth their salt will buy BV over GA since she already has a spell shield available. See, I can do that too.
Aír1 votesDepends on the player, tbh. Usually I do not get hit by the Q anyway. Egh. Sivir is my best, most mastered, and one of my most played champs in ranked (with the best KDA). Please do not take it the wrong way (I really was not trying to be a jerk or be fresh or anything, was just trying to make a joke of what my personal experience is like). Please. I just usually have a pretty easy time against lee when I play Sivir.
I also buy BV if I am against a mostly mage and/or caster team, GA if I am dying a lot or they have hybrid damage.
Sorry if I offended anyone. >.<
Ulquiorra9951 votesMy apologies, then. These boards are so full of actual idiots that jokes like this often fly far above people's heads, myself included.
Aír1 votesPeople were kind of annoyed with my comment apparently, even though I meant it as a joke. I started to assume any responses to that specific post are offended ones. :D
Hard to tell tone in writing.
The Bearded Bard3 votesHe can also autoattack as you're being launched back, yet they took alistar's ability to do that with his w away
SEKAI3 votes[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AnkTjTQV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-11-23T19:41:20.112+0000)
He can also autoattack as you're being launched back, yet they took alistar's ability to do that with his w away
I can't wardhop when I have a W identical to Lee's in every aspect apart from the wardhopping.
delonix2 votesUnless I'm mistaken, Lee's W has some complex conditions for him getting/applying a shield while Braum's W always applies the resistance buff. Also, Lee can reactivate his W for lifesteal and spell vamp. But other than that they're "identical...in every aspect apart from the wardhopping."
SEKAI3 votesUnless I'm mistaken, Lee's W has some complex conditions for him getting/applying a shield while Braum's W always applies the resistance buff. Also, Lee can reactivate his W for lifesteal and spell vamp. But other than that they're "identical...in every aspect apart from the wardhopping."
Braum's W hops, gives bonus MR and Armour. Lee's first W hops, gives shield. Braum's W is called "Stand Behind Me" and Lee's first W is called "Safeguard".
Braum's W is denied a ward hop by Riot because they said it doesn't make sense in the context of "Stand Behind Me" to hop a ward, while I guess it totally make sense for a blind man to "Safeguard" a ward (ironically, they had removed Safeguard's shield on wards if Lee dashes to 1 earlier lol the consistency).
But yes, when I was comparing their Ws I was only looking at Lee's first W alright.
l Main Renekton2 votesA shield is different than armor and MR buff, you incompetent ninny. Stop crying, and realize that he doesn't get a shield if he dashes to a ward.
SEKAI8 votes[{quoted}](name=Nick Ingram,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AnkTjTQV,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2015-11-23T21:12:41.386+0000)
A shield is different than armor and MR buff, you incompetent ninny. Stop crying, and realize that he doesn't get a shield if he dashes to a ward.
You miss the point.
If both spells are of the exact same nature of "dash to a target and grant defense to it, to protect it", then why is one allowed to be given a ward hop while the other is not?
If Riot had just said that it's for balance reasons then it'd be fine but no, they said it's because wardhops don't make sense in the context of "Stand Behind Me" while "Safeguard" can dash to wards just fine. And that's AFTER Riot had removed the Safeguard's shield on wards, so what was Lee doing when he dashes to a ward? Because clearly he is not protecting it anymore since he no longer gives it a shield when dashing to them.
The point is Riot's complete inconsistency in their action and reasoning.
CasterGilgamesh2 votesi hate lee sin with a passion truly cancer i hate him about as much as i hate 
and hate him even more then riot hates 
