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What is Riot's opinion on players saying damage is too high right now?

Rαy··86 votes·19,005 views

I keep upvoting and commenting on posts here and there about damage in the game simply being too high right now, but I've never seen a Rioter respond to these discussions. If Riot said something about the damage state of the game, what was it? Are they planning to adress this at all? The answer to this actually determines if I will keep spending time on League.

This is not meant in a salty way; I just do not enjoy the current state of the game. I kept playing because I've been in love with this game for 5 years (gosh, lord knows I loved it so much) and knew they would always somewhat fix unhealthy preseason results, but, despite a LOT of drastic changes all over the place, it has remained the same (damage-wise) for over half a year now.

This is the main reason I do not enjoy playing League anymore (for the first time) and I wanna know if there is some hope for players sharing this opinion. I am not trying to rant about Riot not doing their job; I just couldn't find any response to that matter. Maybe I just missed it. Help me out if possible.

100 Comments

Who Fed Ru26 votes

Because half of this posts think the issue gets fixed if you just lower damage by 10%, which is simply bullshit.

The reason why damage got so high in the first place is because Riot started power creeping everything.

Madsin2515 votes

It might not fix it completely but it would give a sense of "fighting" again instead of just everyone exploding.

Who Fed Ru7 votes

no, it would make tanks and sustain fighters op and make every fight against a fed tank feel like it's pointless anyway

revliledpembroke5 votes

Isn't that kinda the point? That the tanks are people who need multiple enemies to take down? That if you don't take them down, they might (eventually) kill one of your team?

Who Fed Ru1 votes

no, that would mean that a team with 3+ tanks will be way stronger, and we got League of Tanks again.

revliledpembroke5 votes

And? Each team will have tanks, protecting the squishies, who will do consistent damage to the tanks, killing them.

It sound like exactly what should happen to me.

Also, I can not see the majority of this seemingly kill-focused community obsessed with assassins and flashy plays deciding to consistently play "boring" tanks.

Who Fed Ru1 votes

sounds good. doesn't work.

if your ADC sucks it's gg.

we had this scenario back in season 5. never. ever. again.

you literally couldn't do any damage by mid game if your ADC was retarded, and that happens far too often. if this meta comes back, i'm sure as hell outta here.

DaSarcasticGuy4 votes

The thing is, i think near the end of season 5 was a really good spot. The tank meta was bad at first, I'll give you that. Then we had the bruiser update and that went out the window.

Rαy21 votes

I actually think reducing overall damage by 10 or even 20% would be worth a try. We can't say it won't work if we do not try it out. That's what the PBE is for.

Tanks aren't being played anymore, yeah, but I do not think a lack of protection is the issue here. Part of the reason for nobody playing tanks is that no one can tank the sheer amount of damage right now, so everyone is rather jumping the oneshot train.

ModKnightsKemplar15 votes

The problem that always comes up when discussing 10-20% damage decrease is assassins. What is an assassin's role in the game if they can't kill a squishy target without already being fed? (<------- that's the big key here).

As far as "no one playing tanks," Alistar is the #2 support right now (op.gg for that data); Taric and Leona are tier 2. Poppy is a tier 2 top laner. So... some tanks are successful in this meta, both vanguards and wardens.

To answer your original question, no, I haven't seen Riot entertain a response to a request for a net damage reduction. That request really trivializes all the work put in to get the game to this point; there may be problems that need a solution, but that solution would break the game, I'm quite sure.

Madsin2557 votes

Your telling me you think assassins have the right to 100-0 squishys without being fed? How exactly do you think anyone can deal with assassins 100-0ing everyone?

Oh yea that's right, you turn the game into a clown fiesta where everyone can 100-0.

ModKnightsKemplar9 votes

Your telling me you think assassins have the right to 100-0 squishys without being fed?

No, but I think assassins should be able to 50-0 a squishy if they get a good opportunity and land their full combo. It doesn't help your argument to put words in my mouth :)

In fact, we're very likely on the same side here, at least in terms of assassin damage; I do think assassins are too strong. I just think a 10-20% damage reduction is going to cripple other types of carries, too, and we don't need that.

That would lead to "League of Cleavers 2.0." Having fighters and tanks in every role is not preferable to having assassins and marksmen in every role. Swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction is just as problematic.

RtClick34 votes

A Talon with electrecute, who has bought serated dirk on first back can litetally, as in real life 100-0 a squishy target. Even if they have cloth armor. I have both done this, and experienced it. That should not be happening, not that early in the game.

Troll for Trump2 votes

{quoted}

A Talon with electrecute, who has bought serated dirk on first back can litetally, as in real life 100-0 a squishy target. Even if they have cloth armor. I have both done this, and experienced it. That should not be happening, not that early in the game.

Lvl 2 cheese only works on bad people.

Rαy10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ðownright Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AlOqsOJ1,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-15T16:56:38.260+0000)

Lvl 2 cheese only works on bad people.

Pretty sure you don't have serrated dirk lvl 2 and he was not talking about cheese.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

And this is the reason that player perception is only one of many things considered when determining how to change the game.

The player being killed only sees the assassin jump, press a few buttons and blow them up. Riot sees that assassin struggling against ranged harass early, dodging ranged CC in order to close the gap, and fighting through shields/Exhaust when they do get there.

RtClick21 votes

So since talon "struggles" against ranged mages with cc and ranged harass, even though he has his own ranged harass, he should be able to "blow them up" after only buying a lethality component? Yeah, no.

Sp33d Zer03 votes

His ranged harass is hardly on the same level of a ranged mid Laner let's be real here.

RtClick8 votes

Sure I would agree, but that's really a moot point. The ranged harass he does have, outranges mages auto's by 100-200. So it can be used pretty effectively.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

But then let's consider this:

his ranged harass is exclusively aoe and his only aoe. That means you can position yourself so either he shoves the lane and you can freeze it for your team to gank him or you can stand away from minions so he cannot wave clear when you shove and deny him cs and roams.

His w also has (I believe) a 12 second cd. Meaning for the cost of 1 w you can hit upwards of 9 auto attacks on him. You can also use your ranged abilities like he can to poke him from a completely safe range where he cannot hit you with w or attempt to gap close with Q.

His w also has a pullback delay meaning if you force him to use it at near max range not only will you be able to walk backwards to avoid the second half, but you dodge the pullback which is iirc around 65% of the abilities total damage and a requirement for him to try to proc his passive for an all in trade.

His range exists, but I would argue a large number of assassins have much better range than him, such as zed, LeBlanc, kassadin, jayce (who I consider an assassin based on his lack of any other subclasses of items at the moment) Katarina is debatable, and definately pantheon.

RtClick12 votes

Talon's W is pretty good at waveclear though so I don't think it's really all that easy to freeze unless he let's you. Especially around the time where he's been able to come back with a serrated dirk.

Sp33d Zer03 votes

Fair point. The other points still hold pretty well though.

RtClick11 votes

Eh, not really. What talon player is going to let his lane opponent auto him 9 times waiting for his W to come up? Also Talon's W outranges Pantheons entire kit. And regardless, even if other champions outrange him. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Talon is busted or this is a "Talon" problem, or that there is or isn't counterplay. I will say though, if he has the damage to 100-0 you, which he a lot of champs with serrated dirk, and he is willing to flash/ignite to insure your death, there's little counterplay. Also there's probably other champs other than talon, maybe even pantheon that can 100-0 a squishy with their combo and a serrated dirk. I just feel like that is way to early in the game for Talon, or any other champion to be doing that. Now whether that's because serrated dirk is too cheap, too powerful, the champs are too strong, the other champs are too squishy? I have no idea. I just know, it feels wrong. I mean how fast can a good CS'r get serrated dirk in mid lane 4 and a half minutes?

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Considering the only way to do this is to land both hits of rake pre-6 which is fairly hard to do honestly, I think it's fine.

RtClick1 votes

Sure as long as what you mean by "fairly" is "not really".

Z3Sleeper3 votes

Landing both hits of rake pre-6 is easy? In what world?

Who in the right mind is gonna be close enough for that to even be possible? What functioning human being is not going to sidestep that long ass delay?

Anin7771 votes

What can he do though? If he deals any less dmg, any other mage will outdamage him. Also, I call BS on that 100-0. Except you eat like 2-3 autos, which means you are bad, don't see that happening.

RtClick2 votes

Yeah cause it's sooo hard to weave in a couple of auto's when doing talons combo. Maybe if your unable to do this, your bad?

Anin7771 votes

Or maybe the champ you are fighting has CC? HMMMMMMM. Stop typing like a gold player. Oh wait...

FishbonesOrFeed1 votes

SAYS THE SILVER LOL

Anin7772 votes

Look at op.gg. Only played ranked in s4 and s7. This is obviously not my main :)

RtClick1 votes

Yeah cause every champion in the game has CC? HMMMMMM. Stop typing like a silver player. Oh wait...

Anin7771 votes

{quoted}

Yeah cause every champion in the game has CC? HMMMMMM. Stop typing like a silver player. Oh wait...

Such a poor attempt at a comeback cos you made zer0 sense. And a gold playing rank shaming? AHAHHAHAHAAHAHHA breathes HAHAHAHAHAHHA. Pathetic.

RtClick1 votes

{quoted}

Such a poor attempt at a comeback cos you made zer0 sense. And a gold playing rank shaming? AHAHHAHAHAAHAHHA breathes HAHAHAHAHAHHA. Pathetic.

I wonder how much of it doesn't make sense because your simply a moron? And a Silver rank shaming? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA breathes HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA. This "Gold" player can beat you any day of the week btw. Find out.

Add921 votes

As a Talon mastery 7 , the way to get a kill before 6 is to W-Q-AA to proc the passive , back off a bit , W- flashQ-AA ignite .

Works like a charm everytime . people dont expect at all to be flashed on just to get the extra damage on Q and usually flash away too late as passive and ignite will finish the job.

Anin7771 votes

Yeah I get that but you have to do the first W-Q-AA combo and if they play it safe, you'll have a hard time pulling that off.

Add921 votes

Tru , or you can also decide to be ballsy and all in them just to push them out of lane , shove lane and start snowballing from CS lead and kill pressure . very matchup situational though

Anin7771 votes

Yeah. Can imagine you getting cucked by a Lissandra.

Add922 votes

you have no IDEA omegalul . the damn %%%%

Saianna1 votes

Actually KnightsKemplar is correct. Assassins should be able to 100-0 any squishy without being fed,* BUT it shouldn't be instant. Their kills should speed up the process of killing squishes, but it should never take less than 1 second. The 3-hit strat Riot tried failed miserably, though.

But if you'd take away assassins damage, thus denying them the option to actually kill the target (squishy champion), then what's even the point of picking them?

On the second note, squishes should be punished for building glass cannon. That's why they have supports with them to cover their fragile nature.

I do agree damage is too high, but if you'd nerf assassins, or change them poorly (like last time Riot did), then they will just suck. And if assassins suck, then ADCs swiftly start to rampage and act like assassins bursting the living shit out of everything.

Ofc we could try with experiment "nerf all damage across the boards by 30% and see what happens" as sort of 2-weeks long event.

.* Assassins should be able to kill squishies for as long as they are unprotected. It's the same as with other classes. Each should have its weakness and strenghts. In this case Assassins will/should always win vs squishy.

Rαy1 votes

{quoted}

Actually KnightsKemplar is correct. Assassins should be able to 100-0 any squishy without being fed,* BUT it shouldn't be instant. Their kills should speed up the process of killing squishes, but it should never take less than 1 second. The 3-hit strat Riot tried failed miserably, though.

But if you'd take away assassins damage, thus denying them the option to actually kill the target (squishy champion), then what's even the point of picking them?

On the second note, squishes should be punished for building glass cannon. That's why they have supports with them to cover their fragile nature.

I do agree damage is too high, but if you'd nerf assassins, or change them poorly (like last time Riot did), then they will just suck. And if assassins suck, then ADCs swiftly start to rampage and act like assassins bursting the living shit out of everything.

Ofc we could try with experiment "nerf all damage across the boards by 30% and see what happens" as sort of 2-weeks long event.

.* Assassins should be able to kill squishies for as long as they are unprotected. It's the same as with other classes. Each should have its weakness and strenghts. In this case Assassins will/should always win vs squishy.

I don't think they should be able to 100-0 when they are not ahead though. They should outplay others with more than one rotation to get their first kills and if they manage to do that and get strong, sure, they can start to oneshot squishies. Just like every other role needs to work for their lead before they can do their job decently.

A Zed shouldn't be able to 100-0 someone just because he finally finished his duskblade at 18 minutes.

This recently posted video shows what's wrong with assassins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11oHgfLc6c

You should absolutely not be able to oneshot someone on a similar level with one auto and one ability while not being fed (he was 5/3).

Saianna1 votes

I don't think they should be able to 100-0 when they are not ahead though.

For as long as they aren't behind, then.

It's their job to do this 1 thing. If they suck are unskilled or for some reason unlucky, then squish should survive, but otherwise they should win, easily.

A Zed shouldn't be able to 100-0 someone just because he finally finished his duskblade at 18 minutes.

Depends who he kills. If a squishy that ignored any defensive items, or isn't defended by a support, then I believe Zed got himself an easy kill.

Edit: about the video

Dude, listen. I also want damage nerfed across the boards and assassins made somewhat fair, but what you guys want to is assassins incapable of killing their main targets unless they are already far ahead.. But how can they even get the kills if they can't kill in the first place...

Assassins, past early game, don't farm minions. They kinda farm players.

Rαy1 votes

{quoted}

Dude, listen. I also want damage nerfed across the boards and assassins made somewhat fair, but what you guys want to is assassins incapable of killing their main targets unless they are already far ahead.. But how can they even get the kills if they can't kill in the first place...

Assassins, past early game, don't farm minions. They kinda farm players.

Sure, but they should at least use every spell and/or their ultimate to do their job. They should use a full rotation, well-chained. You can't just auto-q someone to oneshot him while being 5/3. Gawd.

Saianna1 votes

That much is obvious. I have no idea how'd you think I though otherwise lol

Śhunpo1 votes

{quoted}

Your telling me you think assassins have the right to 100-0 squishys without being fed? How exactly do you think anyone can deal with assassins 100-0ing everyone?

Oh yea that's right, you turn the game into a clown fiesta where everyone can 100-0.

I mean....assassins aren't that viable tbh. But yeah they are quite unhealthy due to the existence of Duskblade.

Automated Riven4 votes

the issue with assassins is that they cannot function without 100% burst in the game state now. However if damage was toned down, they could live with lower burst, or longer burst patterns. THe bigger issue is how to get to such a point. a 1.5 second kill window for an assassins means that the kill window on every other champion has to be like 3-4 seconds in order for them to even bee useful.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

But we're getting there without a net damage reduction to everyone. Marksman damage was a huge part of the problem for assassins in the past, and they are now significantly less threatening to assassins.

I still think mages should be allowed to burst assassins if the assassin gets caught. Mages are bursty champs, too.

AR URF7 votes

{quoted}

But we're getting there without a net damage reduction to everyone. Marksman damage was a huge part of the problem for assassins in the past, and they are now significantly less threatening to assassins.

I still think mages should be allowed to burst assassins if the assassin gets caught. Mages are bursty champs, too.

The thing is stealth is what is making assassins broken. Also everytime I see Talon go 2/5. He picks up duskblade and ends the game at 10/6 for example. It's really dumb how strong that item is.

Raoul15 votes

Everything needs to be tones back. DPS, Burst, True damage, %HP damage, Tankiness, mobility, Item value... We are way into a powercreep right now and we have to take multiple steps back.

charge attack20 votes

They need to buff tankiness, not sustain.

Riot keeps buffing sustain options to allow people to not get poked out, and it works really well for small trades - but doesn’t stop you from getting 1-shot like old armour runes did.

“Damage creep” is kinda bullshit, if you look at straight damage (AP/ad/base), overall damage is about the same. Problem is tankiness took a HUGE hit, especially after rune rework. Also damage creep is mostly in runes (which can be fixed if runes were able to give armour/mr of equal value).

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