Riot forcing a certain Champion Pool for Worlds feels so bad

Rαy·Sep 4, 2018·159 votes·20,835 views

Champions like Gnar and Sejuani are already in a relatively bad spot for Solo Queue, yet there are more nerfs coming for them, just so they do not get picked at Worlds. In the meantime, they are buffing edgy, more 'appealing' champions like Rengar and Kayn so they might become good enough for pro play (although they are perfectly fine, maybe even too strong in Solo Queue). This approach feels really dumb and disappointing.

I am glad I wasn't a Kalista or Azir player during these last years, but I really do enjoy playing Gnar and I kind of understand the frustration they must have felt in the past seasons. Gnar felt really good and at his most balanced state during season 7 and while being in a pretty bad spot right now (~46% winrate), he was nerfed again on the PBE right now because he's still good in a perfectly communicating team.

They basically kill champions for 99% of their playerbase, just so people see flashy outplays and tons of damage 24/7. It feels really bad as a casual player.

73 Comments

5050BSSep 5, 201851 votes

They think that viewership is down because the matches are boring. Reality is that viewership is down because the game is shit compared to what it use to be.

VerxintSep 5, 201824 votes

They also perpetually fail to understand what makes interesting matches.

Protip: one shots and repeated 3v1 fights are not that

The Goodest BoySep 6, 20182 votes

b-b-b-b-b-b-but where else can I jack my dick to 2 people flashing at each other and seeing who can unload on the other first? :((((

VerxintSep 6, 20183 votes

Pretty sure a bit of searching on Pornhub will get you what you want.

The Goodest BoySep 6, 20181 votes

okay im upset at how readily i set myself up for that

VexingRavenSep 5, 201834 votes

{quoted}

They think that viewership is down because the matches are boring. Reality is that viewership is down because the game is shit compared to what it use to be.

Viewership is down because if I want to watch one-shots I can just go spectate any random game. I used to watch worlds for the drawn-out careful fights and the coordinate macro which was totally different than anything I ever had a hope of seeing in my own games. But that's mostly gone since it's just a one-shot fest.

IainG10Sep 5, 20182 votes

For me all the good plays were around an objective; currently if anyone tries to steal a Baron they get evaporated in under 2s for tanks, or under 1s for everything else (except Tryndamere with his bullshit ult, but that takes no skill either, because he can just stand there and watch the Smite threshold)....

Arcane Blue BoiSep 5, 201810 votes

hOw caN ThEy bE bORING jUST lOOK aT tHe aMoUnT oF fLaShY pLaYs!1!1

TobykachuSep 5, 20183 votes

Honestly it's actually hilarious. I know I never watched the LCS because I wanted to see them make awesome plays every 10 seconds. I watched because I wanted to see how the best players played the game that I fell in love with. I didn't care if that meant the same picks and play styles in every game. Now I don't watch because I don't particularly enjoy playing League anymore myself.

HayaishiSep 4, 201833 votes

I think Riot just gave up balancing. I mean sure they always messed something up in the past but atleast they tried. Now? Riot is not even trying, they just don't care.

D357R0Y3RSep 4, 201829 votes

Sejuani yes Gnar is a fucking oppressive pick above d2 or d1

which means any gnar player with hands is actually overbearing

RαySep 4, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Sejuani yes Gnar is a fucking oppressive pick above d2 or d1

which means any gnar player with hands is actually overbearing

His winrate in Masters etc. is just as bad though, so I don't really understand. I know that his kit is overloaded to a point it can become unfair, but right now, he is definitely pretty weak for Solo Queue. Even TF Blade struggles hard with the little guy.

Linna ExcelSep 4, 20181 votes

I thought TF blade was an akali/irelia main.

RαySep 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2ioFpZU,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-04T23:34:14.755+0000)

I thought TF blade was an akali/irelia main.

He plays Gnar now and then and has a 20% and a 45% winrate on TF Blade and TF Blade2.

AsudSep 5, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2ioFpZU,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-04T23:34:14.755+0000)

I thought TF blade was an akali/irelia main.

he is, his third pick is Jax and sometimes he picks gnar but he sucks as gnar so hes not that relevant either. However, champion like gnar should never come close to 50% winrate, as he is a hard champ. additionally its ok for someone like him or jayce to be somewhat weaker tier, as they have very unfair advantages compared to other champions they are facing Gnar is all about a perfect ultimate, and if u miss that 2 or 3 times in a game u deserve to lose that's all, as you cannot possibly lose lane, because no one can even get to you in the first place.

LakegaSep 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ray 701,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2ioFpZU,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-09-04T23:02:01.084+0000)

His winrate in Masters etc. is just as bad though, so I don't really understand. I know that his kit is overloaded to a point it can become unfair, but right now, he is definitely pretty weak for Solo Queue. Even TF Blade struggles hard with the little guy.

It's not always about the win rate.. that's something both the player base AND riot need to understand... If a champion like Yasuo, and Gnar are just extremely oppressive, and horrible to play against, with almost no counter play, that's a shitty experience, and shouldn't be allowed in a game.

Not only that, I rarely see a Gnar not win lane.. all of his losses are due to the other massive issues with the game balance right now.. one of the other lanes of his fed up the ass, and so he auto loses that game..

RαySep 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's not always about the win rate.. that's something both the player base AND riot need to understand... If a champion like Yasuo, and Gnar are just extremely oppressive, and horrible to play against, with almost no counter play, that's a shitty experience, and shouldn't be allowed in a game.

Not only that, I rarely see a Gnar not win lane.. all of his losses are due to the other massive issues with the game balance right now.. one of the other lanes of his fed up the ass, and so he auto loses that game..

I know that winrate does not mean everything, but it surely is a good indicator about a champion's strength in Solo Queue. While it is okay for some champions who are hard to play to sit on a <50% winrate, Riot is nerfing a champion who is on a 46% winrate.

The second example you mentioned, Yasuo, meanwhile sits on an overall 50.5% winrate with a 54.5% winrate in botlane. Both champions are admittedly oppressive, but not the easiest to play as well. I would be fine with both sitting on a 47% winrate, but Yasuo is not getting nerfed on purpose - the average League player (with Yasuo club tag ofc.) loves seeing him at Worlds. Do you get my point? This is not really fair.

I do see get Gnar getting smashed in lane a bunch by the way. These champs have always been popular candidates for doing that job: Yasuo Irelia Fiora Jax Jayce Kled Riven

LakegaSep 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ray 701,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2ioFpZU,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-09-07T17:19:56.935+0000)

I know that winrate does not mean everything, but it surely is a good indicator about a champion's strength in Solo Queue. While it is okay for some champions who are hard to play to sit on a <50% winrate, Riot is nerfing a champion who is on a 46% winrate.

The second example you mentioned, Yasuo, meanwhile sits on an overall 50.5% winrate with a 54.5% winrate in botlane. Both champions are admittedly oppressive, but not the easiest to play as well. I would be fine with both sitting on a 47% winrate, but Yasuo is not getting nerfed on purpose - the average League player (with Yasuo club tag ofc.) loves seeing him at Worlds. Do you get my point? This is not really fair.

I do see get Gnar getting smashed in lane a bunch by the way. These champs have always been popular candidates for doing that job:

All I meant by win rate isn't everything, is that sometimes even low win/rate or fine win/rate champs need a rework simply because of how unfun, and 1 sided their laning phase is due to their kit.

BlåbæretSep 4, 201820 votes

And they will still claim they don't balance the game around pro play. This balance team is literally willing to destroy the entire game by gutting weak champions and buffing overpowerd ones for ONE or TWO flashy plays at world$.

Someone at Riot needs to be fired. Whoever's making the game go straight South.

WolfeurSep 5, 20185 votes

They literally said that the next patch will be focalized on pro-play for Worlds…

LeetriSep 5, 20182 votes

Riot has, to my recollection at least, never said that they never ever balance around pro play. They've only said they don't balance the entire game around only pro play.

BijeesnySep 4, 201817 votes

I know how you feel. I used to main Shen and atm I'm playing mostly Karma. Both aren't rly good rn and it pisses me off that I can do better at any other 'meta' champ simply because they are stronger than Shen and Karma.

OHminusSep 5, 201812 votes

used to main Shen atm I'm playing mostly Karma

are you a masochist by any chance

BijeesnySep 5, 20183 votes

{quoted}

are you a masochist by any chance

Ehh, maybe :/ I mean, when I see Karma/Shen nerfs and buffs to other cancerous bs I feel like Riot just bent me over and ravaged by ass, and it's painful. Not enjoyable, but I'm used to it at this point.

Clockwork CorgiSep 5, 201813 votes

IMO pro play should really be on a separate patch cycle from the game we play

Arcane Blue BoiSep 5, 20182 votes

Exactly! Just inform us of the changes for pro play, but only apply the patch to worlds

Happy Love PileSep 5, 20182 votes

This won't work, this is the reason OWL is struggling, people don't like seeing the game on a completely different patch, it feels like a whole other game.

Andreimol1999Sep 5, 201813 votes

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RainXBladeSep 5, 20185 votes

How about just fire the entire balance team in general. They're pretty bad at their job of trying to make the game enjoyable for anyone.

Andreimol1999Sep 5, 20182 votes

I would do a better job than them in 2 days

Bobloser3555Sep 6, 20181 votes

anyone who wouldnt think in $$ would

stone the blacksSep 5, 20189 votes

for AurelionSol they just leave bugs on him for 8 months so they can disable him

La BelloSep 5, 20189 votes

IF Riot actually wants to see varied champ pool in worlds they have to correctly balance their champ pool instead of continually just allowing 1/3rd of the pool to be miles better than the other side. They also need to make sure every champion feels a proper niche so you dont have these generalist " I accel at everything" champs running around because if you DO allow these champs to exsist then pro's have no reason to pick anything else.

why does Ornn Maokai see play instead of Amumu Rammus Sion Malphite ? because theyre GENERALIST picks who are good into just about everything and d ont really have a distinct strength or a distinct weakness.

this is also the reason why Tristana Caitlyn Ryze consistently take the center stage when good. you can play them into just about anything and do fine while also bringing far more strengths than weaknesses to the table comparative to your other classmates.

Basically Riot thinks that simple number changes will result in a wider WORLDS pool when what actually needs to happen is a mass revamping of champions to make sure every champion has a strong niche. ultimately the big design problem with League is that when they make champs often than not they dont give you any reason to draft a champion besides " I enjoy this champ" or "this champ is currently has the best numbers".

Good Drafting would include a draft that roundabout complement one another. Fiddlesticks supp Varus adc Veigar mid and Amumu jungle shows a clear strategy of banking your teamfights on lots of magic damage and AOE crowd controls.

Lulu supp Jinx adc Zilean mid Shen top shows a clear strategy of protecting your ADC putting your eggs in the lategame basket.

This is the kind of clever and smart drafting I want to see but instead what ends up happening is just the same 30 champs out of the 140+ are picked OVER and OVER again simply because they have next to no bad matchups while also being the most generally useful and splashable into anyteam.

the key words here is "SPECIALIZATION". Starting next Season Riot needs to revamp their pool to make sure every champion is SPECIALIZED at something so they dont constantly get left in the dust. Remember first and foremost league is supposed to be a STRATEGY game not a Battlerite clone. the Draft phase should play a very important role in influencing the outcome of a game. Smart drafting and counterpicks should be half of the battle with the other half being ingame execution of your plan.

Because both Ahri and Leblanc do the same job what reason is there to not just pick the currently best performing one? Akali Fizz and Ekko are all mid AP melee assassins but none of them have any sort of super strength that puts them above one another. Just pick the one that got buffed most recently and you are most comfortable with. Pyke and Blitzcrank . Hook, Speed Boost to get in range for Hook, Stun and some AOE damage. Just pick the better of the two because they both are fundamentally the same thing but DELIVERED in a different playstyle. Vayne and Kaisa need a short range tank shredding super duelist? take your pick although 9/10 times you are going to pick the newly released one due to general rule of thumb and powercreep.

Linna ExcelSep 4, 20187 votes

I don't see why they are doing this because given the controversies riot is involved with, it's going to turn people off. Then add in the fact that riot is forcing a world's meta is just going to make things worse.

If riot wants people to watch worlds, the game needs to be fun for the players and riot needs to stay out of political firestorms.

Aynath CrescentSep 5, 20187 votes

I don't play as much and i didn't see pro play as much as I used to (mostly 2015) but I can't agree more with that post.

They even buffed Kassadin early mid game by decreasing his ult CD, for no real reason. They nerfed Tahm Kench as well because of he works wonders in pro play though he is really bad in soloQ. Riot is forcing pros to pick champions in a specific pool indirectly (this is what Meta is after all)

RyzeTheSmurfMageSep 5, 20186 votes

cries in

Arcane Blue BoiSep 5, 20185 votes

FeelsRyzeMan Ryze

3TWarriorSep 6, 20182 votes

wouldn't

C Ryze

be better?

Arcane Blue BoiSep 5, 20184 votes

half of Ryze subreddit is already with that ''This is fine'' image of everything burning

InfinitexMortalSep 5, 20184 votes

The answer to this problem is dont watch or participate in anything worlds related and do not purchase any RP until Riot realizes it needs its players not the other way around. [garen-swing]

SpoofghoulSep 7, 20181 votes

pretty much this

nobody needs Riot they need us players & payers

without us they cease to exist A small boycott to remember them of this little fact wouldn't be such a bad idea

AlzonSep 5, 20183 votes

Last year was a snoozefest. This year is a snoozefest except lots of popping balloons. Where is the chess match we all used to love? :(

TheSingularitySep 5, 20182 votes

They don't seem to understand that we're there to watch Lol, but to the highest degree. Giving them a customized meta that's not even remotely close to what we use, even in arranged play just decimates any interest I have for it

ArdondSep 5, 20182 votes

The main thing is their view that they expressed when making URF (A FUCKING JOKE MODE) became their main idea for balance. They came up with that mode by saying "big numbers are fun, lets give them big numbers", and when that translates to an actually balanced game you get shit.

CURSEÐ REVENANTSep 5, 20182 votes

Like how they buffed Lee Sin and Yasuo before worlds like they do every year? lol

FunkyMonkey3696Sep 5, 20182 votes

I agree. What they also fail to understand for their LC$ Big Play$ is that one shot actually don't lead to flashy plays. Team, unless you are Gekko Fox, play like a scared biyatch, because one misplay and its gg. Increasing damage, increases the risk way and consequence of misplay, which is fine to certain extent. However, this happened in the past as well during increased death timer era.

Team will rarely, skirmish/fight because it's too risky. We therefore, rarely see the 30-40 death games, it's usually 15-20 total deaths.

The other big issue, is knowing what fights you can take, how much damage will be done. With the game changing so much, it is difficult to do that. There used to be a time, when as morg, i knew how much damage I was going to take and what fights I could win due to sustain for majority of the mid match ups. That is no longer the case. Unless I spend 12 hours a day every day, it is difficult to keep up as a casual player.

VermillionWolfSep 5, 20182 votes

I mained Yasuo a year ago right after his Q storm duration nerf, he was fairly balanced, his Q crit dealt 20% less crit dmg, less base damage. His overall damage wasn't the highest in the world and generally you had to use your dashes correctly. I remember the first time I pulled off an airblade and keyblade, it felt so good. But I stopped 1 month into S8, theres no point anymore. I picked a high skill ceiling champ only for him to be dumbed down into AA Q AA Q TRIPLE KILL!, just for him to be picked in LCS and to increase his sales. Notice how theres no E (dash) in the combo I just mentioned, cause you don't need to use his dashes anymore, the only skill aspect is gone now T_T

Tim From WorkSep 5, 20181 votes

Riot has to make a choice and balance the game around one tier of play, they currently spread themselves to thin. They try to make certain changes for pro play ie kalista/ryze etc. But they also try to balance things that seem over bearing in low elo such as garen and recently yorick. They will never be able to balance if they keep doing that. Either they have to believe lower tier players will learn and balance around the higher tiers of play or just turn this game into something that caters to casual players. Currently it tries to cater to too many audiences imo.

5050BSSep 6, 20181 votes

How about designing champs and Items with less skill variance. The issue is that Low ELO and high ELO skill difference in champs is too great.

There needs to be SOME mechanic skill but what makes a High elo SHOULD be tactics and Macro knowledge. That is not the case.

Tim From WorkSep 8, 20181 votes

Which again is them spreading themselves too thin, once upon a time you couldn't see buff timers and Dragon and baron weren't globally announced when taken, they have taken a lot of little nuances out of the game in favor of making it more accessible while still trying to balance both high elo and low elo simultaneously. It's never going to work this way.