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Elise changes make literally no sense. Same for Runeglaive.

Bern··3 votes·2,197 views

They address none of the actual problems with the champion (which are literally only that her mana costs are atrocious and q is overnerfed), buff a skill that has zhonya's attached (and in an almost useless way), and actually -hurt- her late sustain and life restore in the jungle. Elise currently clears fine early and doesn't take much damage, so I'm lost at why you'd increase her early sustain, nerf her late sustain, and buff a skill that no one actually wants to use for damage. Like, how much use do you get out of that e buff? If you e in to gank, you switch to human form immediately to cc. If you go in with human form, there's a good chance that, early, you're looking to dive (and won't get any use out of it because you're going to rappel as late as possible to drop tower aggro). Literally makes no sense for how the champion actually plays. I feel like ricklessabandon isn't even in touch with Elise's actual gameplay patterns.

Runeglaive is just bad. Congratulations, I'm buying... a worse version of Lich Bane. With worse stats than Magus. That scales worse than either of the aforementioned items. Sure, it has mana sustain... but guess what, that's what Ranger's Trailblazer is for! I'm completely lost on the point of this item. It's a wasted slot on anyone who would buy it. It's flat inferior to every other jungle item currently out there and flat inferior to every other comparable item in the game. At the least, Magus enchant is one of the best stat sticks in the game (It's almost 170% gold efficient). Warrior builds out of brut, which is a great item, and the fact that brut only builds into Warrior and Ghostblade amps up its strength and uniqueness even if it's a stat stick. Cinderhulk, well... nothing else makes all your other HP scale so hard. Even -Devourer- does something unique and interesting not found elsewhere by scaling with jungle kills. Runeglaive is a worse version of three existing passives and gives poor stats for almost anyone who wants to buy it, which none of the other jungle items do. Who, exactly, are you targeting with this item? Nid, who loves Magus CDR and AP? All those ranged AP junglers you nerfed the everloving shit out of with the leash changes? Karthus? Fid? No AP jungler. No. AP. Jungler. Actually wants to buy this item. And that doesn't even begin to touch on how awkward the stop points in the buildpath are. Blue crystal is a useless item. Amp tome is okay. You're getting a minimal powerspike from Runeglaive's component items during your early game, when it matters most. (And legit, since finishing it is 50 more than just having a sheen, who's going to back on the sheen spike instead of waiting? ...Oh wait, they might just hold sheen because this item is probably less single target damage when you get it LOL)

So, Riot. Words cannot describe how baffled I am at these changes. Get your heads out of your asses, stop playing some magical pretend version of League that no one else is playing, and deal with the actual game in front of you and not some ivory tower fantasy of what you think the game is like.

11 Comments

Meep Man2 votes

Guys! Stop overreacting! Its the PBE! If it is actually weak it will be buffed. Theres no reason to react in such a way, especially off of the PBE forums.

Terchio2 votes

We can't type on PBE forums if we aren't PBE...

And we can overreact all we want. PBE has a record of quick-release, especially of late. They want to throw out changes, and react later, I suppose. Besides, why would they change if people don't actually say something about it... like us?

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

I think the real problem with Elise is that her entire kit takes waaaaaaay too long to pull off the full damage. She's a burst mage without burst, and if built tanky she has very poor CC.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

I think the real problem with Elise is that her entire kit takes waaaaaaay too long to pull off the full damage. She's a burst mage without burst, and if built tanky she has very poor CC.

Agreed. Even reducing the delay on Rappel would be amazing.

Jishhh1 votes

definitely, the cooldown on rappel is way to long, which makes this weird ability on it even more useless.

Zirzon1 votes

I strongly agree with you on the Elise changes, and don't understand why they added to her Rappel they way they did. It seems like they want it used for engage whenever possible, but that eliminates all the interesting uses of the skill. It gives her a situational damage boost that costs her defence and escape if used.

However, I'm not certain about the new jungle item yet. I like the idea of having a mana restore jungle item, and think that it is an interesting item idea overall. I'll give it a chance. Who knows, they may end up buffing the numbers anyways.

Edit: And just a suggestion... There's not really any need to be angry with and/or insult Riot, especially for PBE. I suggest just expressing your points in a logical, less confrontational manner. It leads to better discussion.

Bern1 votes

{quoted}

I strongly agree with you on the Elise changes, and don't understand why they added to her Rappel they way they did. It seems like they want it used for engage whenever possible, but that eliminates all the interesting uses of the skill. It gives her a situational damage boost that costs her defence and escape if used.

However, I'm not certain about the new jungle item yet. I like the idea of having a mana restore jungle item, and think that it is an interesting item idea overall. I'll give it a chance. Who knows, they may end up buffing the numbers anyways.

Edit: And just a suggestion... There's not really any need to be angry with and/or insult Riot, especially for PBE. I suggest just expressing your points in a logical, less confrontational manner. It leads to better discussion.

Runeglaive would have potential if the AP # was around 60 instead of 40. It'd still ultimately be worse than Magus, though, just because Magus CDR and raw AP are actually more useful in most every case and scale better; likewise, mana sustain isn't a problem that really needs to be solved for AP junglers at this moment.

Even with an AP increase, though, the item would just feel bad. From a player perspective, locking yourself into an inferior unique passive without significant benefit is going to leave a sour taste in your mouth. It does speed your clear, but what AP junglers have serious clear issues once they've finished their first item? The early, early clear is typically the issue for AP junglers, and why they're just not prevalent. It's definitely not going to increase jungler diversity. It doesn't really aid the current AP jungler pool. I'm just confused as to what the item is actually supposed to accomplish.

Terchio1 votes

Runeglaive just does not suck that bad. Beside the fact that Warrior is a mini Youmuu's, Cinderhulk a mini Sunfire, Runeglaive also has something its counterpart doesn't... AoE. Aside from that, it builds from AP stronger lategame so you can keep your precious jungle clear and gold bonus in tact, and the enchant costs (assumedly) 1500g for Sheen (Sheen is 1200g) with (75% base AD + 12) initial damage regardless of what you have, in AoE, and comes with 15 more AP and 10% CDR. And, if that's not enough for you, it upgrades itself with your AP, unlike Sheen.

I mean seriously. Wah.

And as a last note... I think I'm hearing that Magus in the jungle was actually good. When did that trend start? I thought that was gonna get the boot well before Juggernaut, tbh. It's been a long time comin'.

Cowardly Clown1 votes

I don't think Runeglaive is weak...it's just only strong on heavy AA junglers like Diana, Evelyn, Etc and very weak on the more Mage type junglers like Fiddlesticks. I personally like the item as I would like to use Diana in the jungle more. My BIG issue is that it nerfs the Mage jungles like fiddle or off meta picks like Karthus and for that reason I would prefer for Runeglaive to not replace Magus but to be added in just like how the devourer and warrior enchants are mostly used on AD Except only for APs

Jishhh1 votes

i thought they had technically buffed Elise's sustain though. by putting it on ALL her attacks in spider form (including when w is used). Id think this as a buff (unless it nerfs the values in which case wtf riot). I will agree with you though that her E makes absolutely no sense at all. Elise doesn't need some weird new wacky ability she needs lower mana cost and, really ap ratios that aren't completely awful. Still not sure how shes going to come out of this one yet. Either way, tank Elise still seems to be the only option.

Icestar11861 votes

Runeglaive will be good on Diana, Ekko, Skarner, AP Elise, and any other AP bruisers/assassins in the jungle. Mages might have a bit of a hard time if they don't have a spammable spell, though.

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