So we need LCS, to prove to Riot that CS bounty is the dumbest thing ever?

taleofsonata·Feb 23, 2019·52 votes·15,893 views

Technically we are not being listened? Ever since the bounty changes, we've said it many times that CS bounty punish players for playing it safe and doing good. Now you guys decides to actually do something about it and tone down cs bounty. This is SAD, when the community are really pointing out stuff that are wrong with the game but the dev aren't doing anything about it and need it to be on a large screen for them to start worrying.

52 Comments

AnateraFeb 23, 201926 votes

I don't know what rock you've been living under, but Riot hasn't listened to the average player in a long time (5+ years?), even when they were entirely justified in their complaints. That's why they only address the problem after something in the pro scene proves it's an issue (potentially ruining the watchability of their tournaments), all while we (the non pro players) get shit canned for months, sometimes years, with obviously broken items, characters, whatever, making the game an absolutely insufferable experience.

Nea104Feb 23, 201912 votes

Yep, not to mention pre-Season 8 community's warnings and how they didn't care at all, losing tons of players afterwards.

Meanwhile... https://puu.sh/CQtUL/8885fc1075.png https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/QmVcnEBc-daily-reminder-that-riot-thinks-you-the-boards-community-are-shit

taleofsonataFeb 23, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Yep, not to mention pre-Season 8 community's warnings and how they didn't care at all, losing tons of players afterwards.

Meanwhile... https://puu.sh/CQtUL/8885fc1075.png https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/QmVcnEBc-daily-reminder-that-riot-thinks-you-the-boards-community-are-shit

Isn't that the guy who literally shave Kayle head in her rework? Yea not a big fan of that dude.

Very disrespectful to the original Kayle designer and to the fans, as an artist if I were to redesign a champion It would totally be based off the original concept.

Nea104Feb 23, 20191 votes

Afaik, he's "working" on her, yep.

Rathar DashingFeb 24, 20191 votes

Well, to be fair, there have been a few things that players were wrong about. The biggest one I can think of is the jungle plants. Everyone hated it, and said it would ruin the game, but then it came out and people liked it overall.

3TWarriorFeb 24, 20192 votes

I think the only plant that's really received any positive feedback is the healing/mana plant because it doesn't provide anything "extra" to the game whereas the rocket plants are taken at times only to spite opponents and the vision plant, while extremely powerful, is also very passive and gives strengths that the jungle was not really supposed to have (they removed a lot of vision power to "keep the game interesting" and the plant has as much power as an ashe E

GuzergusFeb 25, 20191 votes

I don't know what rock you've been living under, but Riot hasn't listened to the average player in a long time

And that's entirely reasonable for the purposes of balance changes and other stuff. Average players are unskilled, uneducated and in general bad when assessing the game state. They complain no matter what.

AnateraFeb 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

And that's entirely reasonable for the purposes of balance changes and other stuff. Average players are unskilled, uneducated and in general bad when assessing the game state. They complain no matter what.

Well then, I guess I shouldn't be listening to you huh? Since you're unskilled, uneducated and in general bad. Well done.

GuzergusFeb 25, 20192 votes

In relation to balance changes no, you should not. I'm not even claiming anything about the balance, even though statistically I'm better than 95% or more of the playerbase. :)

AnateraFeb 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

In relation to balance changes no, you should not. I'm not even claiming anything about the balance, even though statistically I'm better than 95% or more of the playerbase. :)

Oh I see, but you're an expert on human behavior so I should listen to you regarding that? LOL, piss off.

GuzergusFeb 26, 20192 votes

There is no need for an expert to understand that blind circlejerk means nothing. We've been there before with every season of the game.

AnateraFeb 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

There is no need for an expert to understand that blind circlejerk means nothing. We've been there before with every season of the game.

Oh sure sure sure. There's no need for an expert regarding THIS, because you said so, right? And you say it's circlejerking, so it must be true. Because you said it, right?

"You need an expert for all these things. Except for the parts I've conveniently excluded just now, because it makes what I'm saying sound like absolute bullshit."

Cute.

GuzergusFeb 26, 20191 votes

I say it's circlejerking because I have ~8 years of experience with this particular game and even more with games and communities in general. I can confidently say that the vast majority of complaints are just people being frustrated and not actually giving any thought to what they say (Yi, Trynd, Nasus complaints and other similar things).

Also, the fact that Riot doesn't listen to boards either clearly shows that they agree with me at least to some degree. So, what makes you think unskilled frustrated players know more about the game and their judgement is better? The only valid case I see is when something is extremely, extremely frustrating to play against and is actually disrupting people. Other than that, there is no reason to listen to boards.

P.S. The fact that a lot of posts on boards are blatant harassment - 'fire the guy who did X' - further proves my point and justifies rito abandoning them.

AnateraFeb 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I say it's circlejerking because I have ~8 years of experience with this particular game and even more with games and communities in general. I can confidently say that the vast majority of complaints are just people being frustrated and not actually giving any thought to what they say (Yi, Trynd, Nasus complaints and other similar things).

Also, the fact that Riot doesn't listen to boards either clearly shows that they agree with me at least to some degree. So, what makes you think unskilled frustrated players know more about the game and their judgement is better? The only valid case I see is when something is extremely, extremely frustrating to play against and is actually disrupting people. Other than that, there is no reason to listen to boards.

P.S. The fact that a lot of posts on boards are blatant harassment - 'fire the guy who did X' - further proves my point and justifies rito abandoning them.

Oh right, because Riot is always correct and have never made any mistakes. So the fact that you and Riot agree with each other, must mean you've stumbled on some amazing insight into the human psyche, despite your lack of education or professional experience in that field, which automatically makes you a credible source. Or was it your "8" years of anecdotal experience, not at a pro level? Abandoning the boards entirely over some bad apples when there are perfectly good apples that can be found by virtue of not being lazy is exactly that. It's lazy.

Riot is not some small time nobody developer that needs to be defended by white knights. No one who works there is going to be reduced to tears over a bunch of people on the internet being "mean" to them, because if they've been paying any attention at all to, oh I don't know...history? they'd already know that that's just how people online behave. Willful ignorance isn't an excuse for anything.

GuzergusFeb 26, 20191 votes

Oh right, because Riot is always correct and have never made any mistakes

I've never said that.

despite your lack of education or professional experience in that field

Why would you bring experience up? It's pretty clear the majority of complaints on boards are from people who are objectively bad at the game.

Or was it your "8" years of anecdotal experience, not at a pro level?

It's 8 years of playing this game at the level which is better than at least 95% of the playerbase. Still, I don't consider myself good enough to rant about balance, yet somehow people on boards do. Truly a mystery.

Abandoning the boards entirely over some bad apples

I disagree. From my POV, it's some good apples and the majority is just whining and crying about Yi, Yasuo and 'damage is too high'. Pretty constructive, yeah.

Riot is not some small time nobody developer that needs to be defended by white knights.

I'm not defending riot, I'm attacking the circlejerking boards. It just so happens that riot arrived at the same conclusion.

No one who works there is going to be reduced to tears over a bunch of people on the internet being "mean" to them,

Pretty weak argument. I never said someone is going to commit suicide because of the message on the boards, but being polite is a must when you communicate with people. There are plenty of examples of how it should be done.

they'd already know that that's just how people online behave

No, it's not. People are perfectly capable of being polite and thoughtful without degrading communication to the level of 4chan shitstorm.

AnateraFeb 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I've never said that.

Why would you bring experience up? It's pretty clear the majority of complaints on boards are from people who are objectively bad at the game.

It's 8 years of playing this game at the level which is better than at least 95% of the playerbase. Still, I don't consider myself good enough to rant about balance, yet somehow people on boards do. Truly a mystery.

I disagree. From my POV, it's some good apples and the majority is just whining and crying about Yi, Yasuo and 'damage is too high'. Pretty constructive, yeah.

I'm not defending riot, I'm attacking the circlejerking boards. It just so happens that riot arrived at the same conclusion.

Pretty weak argument. I never said someone is going to commit suicide because of the message on the boards, but being polite is a must when you communicate with people. There are plenty of examples of how it should be done.

No, it's not. People are perfectly capable of being polite and thoughtful without degrading communication to the level of 4chan shitstorm.

Yes, you didn't say a lot of things. You didn't say that sunlight is actually green. You didn't say that spaghetti sauce tastes like dog food either. You didn't say a lot of things. Unfortunately, a lot of what I was saying has very little to do with you brought up just now.

Your attempt at taking the high road by claiming you have no right to talk about balance is cheesy and doesn't create an obligation for everyone to believe what you believe. If someone has a good idea, they are under no obligation to look at you and say "Oh well if this guy doesn't think his 8 years of experience means anything, I guess my good idea is actually a piece of shit."

Talk about being a massive defeatist.

GuzergusFeb 26, 20191 votes

doesn't create an obligation for everyone to believe what you believe

Nobody should believe what I do. You may believe it's fine to try to discuss game balance without any actual game skill. I believe otherwise and that's what I stated at the very beginning.

If someone has a good idea

If someone has a good, or in fact any idea, what they should do is perform fact-checking, think about this idea a lot, and only then post it. Which is the exact opposite of what usually happens on boards.

I guess my good idea is actually a piece of shit.

It usually is. Also, 'Nasus is op and kills me in 2 hits' is not an idea, it's a rant that should not be allowed.

AnateraFeb 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Nobody should believe what I do. You may believe it's fine to try to discuss game balance without any actual game skill. I believe otherwise and that's what I stated at the very beginning.

If someone has a good, or in fact any idea, what they should do is perform fact-checking, think about this idea a lot, and only then post it. Which is the exact opposite of what usually happens on boards.

It usually is. Also, 'Nasus is op and kills me in 2 hits' is not an idea, it's a rant that should not be allowed.

Everything you have said is literally YOUR opinion. You know what an opinion is, right? You talk like everyone should take your word as gospel, then conveniently claim that no one should listen to you. I've got a better idea, how about you make up your own mind first?

"Usually" "Usually" "Usually" "Usually" "Usually" "Usually" Lazy is lazy. If Riot isn't willing to put in the time to read the good ideas, then they are the ones at fault. As are you for writing everyone off, under the guise of "no one here has any good ideas. And I know that for a fact based on my extensive research of casually perusing the boards every so often."

GuzergusFeb 26, 20191 votes

Everything you have said is literally YOUR opinion

And it's based on evidence, experience and careful thinking.

You talk like everyone should take your word as gospel, then conveniently claim that no one should listen to you

You ever heard of three valued logic? I don't say balance is good or bad, I say that boards cannot reliable estimate that.

If Riot isn't willing to put in the time to read the good ideas, then they are the ones at fault

Why would they want to dig up the dirt if they have other sources?

no one here has any good ideas.

Nah, I've never said that. What I said is that the proportion of good ideas to bad ideas is so sad and disappointing that riot are right in not paying a lot of attention to the boards.

AnateraFeb 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And it's based on evidence, experience and careful thinking.

You ever heard of three valued logic? I don't say balance is good or bad, I say that boards cannot reliable estimate that.

Why would they want to dig up the dirt if they have other sources?

Nah, I've never said that. What I said is that the proportion of good ideas to bad ideas is so sad and disappointing that riot are right in not paying a lot of attention to the boards.

You didn't have to. You want Riot to write off the entire gameplay board. Why don't you put that in their suggestion form and see if they do that? Since you value their obviously superior opinion that is on par with yours and only yours, in terms of quality, I'm sure they'll do it immediately.

5050BSFeb 23, 201916 votes

LC$ is all that matter to Riot

Each team pays them 10 Mill to join guess how many Skins that is.

3TWarriorFeb 24, 20191 votes

thought it was $20K with 100k prizes or something like that

I don't think any company would invest that much for such a small audience, especially when their brand name would have little to no effects on the gamers' purchases

GripaAviaraFeb 25, 20191 votes

For sure is not 10 mil. Maybe that's 1 season budget on superstars teams, but otherwise nope

Killer of Night9Feb 23, 201915 votes

We needed the lcs to prove the ardent censar was broken after 6 patch of complain on board (season 7). We are doing the same thing with the bounty system

BeatzBoyFTWFeb 23, 201911 votes

Meanwhile, according to RiotAugust, we are "useless" unless we are pro-players.

Horse GrenadesFeb 23, 20199 votes

They don't listen to us. Riot August said so

KVbqbFsC8eFeb 23, 20198 votes

If by "we", you mean the Gameplay board, then Riot has a very good reason to not listen.

CaveslothFeb 23, 20191 votes

Cause we don't fit their agenda of cashing in as fast and hard as possible before this game inevitably crashes and burns harder than Paul Walker?

Abibyama IIFeb 24, 20191 votes

I hope this place crashes and burns first

SyrileFeb 23, 20198 votes

My favorite thing is hearing the "counter arguments" for the CS bounty. So, last weekend, during the LCS games, a player was on a team that was 0/0/0 and was actually down in CS, not above. Had a 600 Gold bounty. Yet, this is somehow justified by anyone??? Nonsense. It is a system made to remove skill from the game. Nothing about it is balanced or sensible.

3TWarriorFeb 24, 20191 votes

it's a system made to encourage killing sprees, which overall is bad for league because while a part of the game, it's not what it's designed around

GuzergusFeb 25, 20191 votes

It is a system made to remove skill from the game

I wonder how did you jump to that conclusion. Bounties are weird sometimes but you're just circlejerking right now.

SyrileFeb 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I wonder how did you jump to that conclusion. Bounties are weird sometimes but you're just circlejerking right now.

Not even close. All professional teams require a certain skill in CSing because it is far more important than getting a lot of kills. Generally, lots of kills happen against someone who is bad or having a bad day. CS requires more skill to consistently hit high numbers. It also requires more game knowledge and other things.

Punishing CS means weakening skill in the game. It also is a way of helping out players who are not as good but get a lucky kill. It is counter-skill.

ImbetterthanmoeFeb 23, 20194 votes

it would be nice to have some options to send feedback to the development team. As of right now you either wait 3 months for a feedback survey to pop or have a 5% chance a rioter sees your post. Even when you contact the riot communications team they tell you that any feedback you give to them cant be forwarded to the dev team.

ØrnnToGetTrolleÐFeb 23, 20193 votes

''Need more data''

NaalithFeb 23, 20193 votes

Considering pro play is the only thing Riot cares to balance around, it's not surprising in the slightest.

Rathar DashingFeb 24, 20191 votes

They care about pro-play and bronze/iron. They can't allow a champion to be viable at all in pros if it means they'll be a safe pick for super low ELO.

Jesus is SaviorFeb 23, 20192 votes

Did they do something new?

aezensFeb 23, 20191 votes

In my opinion this focus on CS and KDA is harming and was always a bad indicator for performance. There are many factors which influence your gold income and if you don´t include them in your calculation it´s just a matter of time until something will break it. If there really need to be a bounty system I think the only resonable way to do so is by implementing it in correlation to the current and average gold difference.

If you are the only one on your team performing well you probably won´t have a bounty because the gold difference between you and the enemy isn´t big enought. If the enemy team catches up with gold you will loose your bounty because the reason doesn´t exist anymore. If you snowball out of control by any means this system will detect it because gold is next to exp/level the only way to increase your power.

Also KDA and CS counter need to be subsidiary entires in the stat tab. The main stat should be the cumulative gold income from a champion.

A Chaotic MindFeb 24, 20191 votes

that's literally the current bounty system

aezensFeb 27, 20191 votes

It´s litterally not.

First the current bounty system only cares about kills and cs gold and not about for example item generated gold (not sure about tower/plating gold). The reason they hotfixed support items so fast wasn´t because they dislike that sololaner take it but because it broke the bounty system in a pro play match.

Second currently if you have the bounty you don´t loose it unless someone kills you.

General Esdeath Feb 24, 20191 votes

Isn't this the same board where we can see a post calling Yasuo broken every other hour?

Or where Sylas heal is "OP" while showing clips of his healing while he's below 40% HP (which doubles it)

The boards are nice and all but they really don't show the best of the critics of the community

SeenanFeb 24, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Isn't this the same board where we can see a post calling broken every other hour?

Or where heal is "OP" while showing clips of his healing while he's below 40% HP (which doubles it)

The boards are nice and all but they really don't show the best of the critics of the community

Are you joking? Sylas' heal is stupid as fuck. Idk what rock you're living under.

General Esdeath Feb 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Are you joking? Sylas' heal is stupid as fuck. Idk what rock you're living under.

Did you miss the thread? It's a real shit show. To make a long story short someone used an example of Sylas having a very powerful heal at level 18 while showing no AP, dragons, items, runes, etc and calling it OP. He was also under 40% which doubles his healing.

3TWarriorFeb 24, 20191 votes

you know heals are less valuable the MORE health you have, right?

General Esdeath Feb 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

you know heals are less valuable the MORE health you have, right?

I think you missed where I said THE HEAL IS DOUBLED WHEN HE'S LOW

Let me say it again, hold on where's my megaphone.

THE HEAL IS DOUBLED WHEN HE IS BELOW 40% HP. A HIGH HEAL WHEN HE'S LOW IS NOT A SIGN OF BROKEN SCALING OR BASE NUMBERS

3TWarriorFeb 24, 20191 votes

and I think you misunderstood that if he is above 40% , that heal is reduced from 1300 to 650, which is high but not that important, but then when he reaches 40% , that heal is now able to recover over 25% of his hp while having a shield that is another 20%

a high heal when low is very important because the higher health you have, the less valuable a heal is

if you receive 1000 healing but are only missing 750, that 250 health is wasted

if you receive 1000 healing and are missing 1250, you just healed 80% of all damage you took without wasting anything

General Esdeath Feb 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

and I think you misunderstood that if he is above 40% , that heal is reduced from 1300 to 650, which is high but not that important, but then when he reaches 40% , that heal is now able to recover over 25% of his hp while having a shield that is another 20%

a high heal when low is very important because the higher health you have, the less valuable a heal is

if you receive 1000 healing but are only missing 750, that 250 health is wasted

if you receive 1000 healing and are missing 1250, you just healed 80% of all damage you took without wasting anything

A heal is always valuable no matter how low you are. And it doesn't change the fact that people always complain about his heal being OP while ignoring his HP at the cast time

Serika ZeroFeb 26, 20191 votes

Depends. let's say you got a 3000 heal.

And if you got 1000 hp, using that heal means you get full regen. So, you'd say that it's highly effective and in void state, it is. But if the enemy can do 2000 dmg at once, it's quite worthless.

And at that point having higher hp, like 4000k HP, makes your heal better.

And then there's cool downs too. let's say you got 4k HP, and a 3k heal and enemy does 2k every second to you. and your heal has 1 sec cool down. Now you never die. But if you have 5 seconds CD on your heal, and you take 2k dmg every second, you're fucked. see it depends in more than just the heal numbers and hpn

Antyss08Feb 24, 20191 votes

https://i.imgur.com/pkgiizx.jpg https://i.imgur.com/pkgiizx I play this game since season 1 and I didnt play after season 6 because I didnt like how the game changes and I returned to try a bit and its so horrible. Just now I had a game were enemy team swain 2/15 almost surpassed us in gold and surpassed us in lvl. How in the world does the gold sistem works now? It wasnt like this first 6 seasons were a bad useless player can have this much gold from nothing? Does the game now prevents someone to be "behind" ? I won mid against zed, my friend a seaon 1 player too, beat the crap out of swain and look at swain gold and lvl, he should had 9k gold and be lvl 13. As I play with my friend since season 1 we dont understand why this game gets tons of reworks, changes and patches that replace or brakes things in game from oldest patches. The outcome of my game wasnt because they were skilled or anything, they lost almost all towers and swain to almost have same gold as me but he got higher lvl that me? This has to do with changes in game, with gold sistem and other things that prevents players who perform very bad to be "behind" how generous!