"Damage dealt to champions" Is only one stat

Mira Arya Enthe·Sep 15, 2016·40 votes·6,827 views

And one of the less important ones if you aren't a pure ADC/APC.

I can go 1/12/4 on Zyra, Karthus or Teemo and still have the most damage done. I can play Udyr jungle, cap dragons, counter jungle, take barons, gank well, end positive and win. And have least damage done. People need to stop bringing up damage dealt as if it is an important stat.

Most of the time, laners will have more damage done than junglers. DPS will have more than supports. Tanks could get a lot or none depending on how things go. But in the end, did the person partake in objectives, help in fights, play mechanically well, ping mias, ward well, push when it was needed, not feed and overall play their champion to a good level? If yes, then I don't give a damn if they have lowest damage done. It's not a super important stat, stop bringing it up.

Sincerely, your farm heavy junglers and supports.

46 Comments

Joseph GladstoneSep 15, 20165 votes

what is your point here?

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 201613 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dunkin Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AdsaoePb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-15T19:30:26.449+0000)

what is your point here?

Because I am tired of mid lane Teemo's going 1/12/0 and thinking they are good because they had more 'damage done to champions' than our top lane Riven who went 2/1/0 and did almost no damage to champions, but provided excellent stuns, did not feed, helped with objectives, and was a team player. This is just a hypothetical example.

I'm tired of support Sona going 2/7/1, never buying wards and bypassing support items and thinking she is good because she had more damage dealt to champions than our Shaco jungle who completely shut down the enemy jungler from farming, took several dragons and helped as a team late game with excellent assassinations and split pushing.

ShahamutSep 15, 20165 votes

The problem with the scenario is not that Teemo is referencing dmg to champs, its that he is not considering his death count.

Dmg to champs is an important stat. More so than kills in my opinion. I played a game and had most dmg to champs, but the Evelyn had most kills, coming in and last hitting people that I was fighting :P

No one stat is a perfect figure for your skill level or contribution to the game. BUT they are all contributions. "Good job Teemo, way to lay out some dmgs, next time, try not to die so much :P"

Give credit where credit is due, and be constructive in your criticisms. His deaths don't invalidate the fact that he did a ton of dmg, but his dmg doesn't negate the fact he gave a lot of gold to enemy team by dying a lot.

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The problem with the scenario is not that Teemo is referencing dmg to champs, its that he is not considering his death count.

Dmg to champs is an important stat. More so than kills in my opinion. I played a game and had most dmg to champs, but the Evelyn had most kills, coming in and last hitting people that I was fighting :P

No one stat is a perfect figure for your skill level or contribution to the game. BUT they are all contributions. "Good job Teemo, way to lay out some dmgs, next time, try not to die so much :P"

Give credit where credit is due, and be constructive in your criticisms. His deaths don't invalidate the fact that he did a ton of dmg, but his dmg doesn't negate the fact he gave a lot of gold to enemy team by dying a lot.

Teemo will always get high damage done to champions due to mushrooms. I know, I am one token from lvl7 on Teemo. It means nothing on him. Some champions/situations just allow people to increase that number, or don't allow them to. It says little about their quality of play. at all.

ShahamutSep 15, 20169 votes

I beg to differ. I know a lot of Teemos who rarely have high dmg to champs. Even when going full AP. Shroom placement is a skill. and if the vast majority of their dmg is through shrooms, I'd say they at least have a good sense of where to put them or how to use them.

Either way, its contribution to the team. Period. Don't make excuses, but don't not recognize the things they do well.

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I beg to differ. I know a lot of Teemos who rarely have high dmg to champs. Even when going full AP. Shroom placement is a skill. and if the vast majority of their dmg is through shrooms, I'd say they at least have a good sense of where to put them or how to use them.

Either way, its contribution to the team. Period. Don't make excuses, but don't not recognize the things they do well.

I have never seen a Karthus, Zyra, Teemo or Heimer with low damage to champions. However, even if there are they are the exception not the rule. Regardless, dealing 100 damage to an enemy and then they regen it, then dealing another 100, then they regen it, and so on. Will never be as valuable to your team as blinding the ADC, taking a tower, helping with dragon, securing a kill, not feeding. Etc. An enemy Maokai walking over a shroom nowhere near a fight and taking 5% of his HP in damage is rarely if at all valuable, only the vision is, even then that is base to the character itself, it isn't something they did well on. Damage done to champions is important for APC and ADC champions, but even for them there are exceptions. I would rather have a low damage Ashe with high initiation and kiting skills with her slow and ult, than a high damage Ashe who misses cross map pointless ults and dies to Yi over and over because she is out of position.

ShahamutSep 15, 20163 votes

You are still picking and choosing the outcast scenarios to try and validate your argument without actually addressing mine.

My argument still stands: It is a stat that matters, but is by no means the only one. When you fail to recognize its value, you are equally ignorant to those who see it as the only stat that matters.

Im done wasting my time here. Peace. Hope you have better luck on the rift.

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You are still picking and choosing the outcast scenarios to try and validate your argument without actually addressing mine.

My argument still stands: It is a stat that matters, but is by no means the only one. When you fail to recognize its value, you are equally ignorant to those who see it as the only stat that matters.

Im done wasting my time here. Peace. Hope you have better luck on the rift.

Your claim was damage done is more important than kills. Harassing, poking and dealing AoE for damage is great and all. But if nothing comes of it, it means nothing. Some assassins will end the game with low damage done, but contribute a lot. Because they are all or nothing. They either take out the ADCs full 1900HP, or none at all. While another might poke 300 damage many times, but never secure a kill or do anything for their team. Damage done has little to do with a players skill or contribution. Which is why the things that mainly count towards S ranks is kill contribution, objective contribution and minion farm. Damage done is too unreliable for that. I can play Shyvana one game and be utter shit but do 30,000 damage because I dove enemies over and over with my AoE damage. Then the next game play amazing and win, but only do 15,000 damage because it was a farm heavy game and I played safer. It is a poor way to measure somebody's contribution to victory.

ShahamutSep 15, 20163 votes

so, if you do enough damage that the enemy team has to back off of an objective, or stop their push because their hp is too low, than you have contributed nothing?

You don't have to kill someone to win a fight. If you deal enough dmg that they feel that they have to back, or cant fight, then you win. Dmg matters. Even if you don't get a kill.

Regardless, my initial point is not the one you stated, what you stated was my example and opinion. My point, is what I reiterated in my previous post:

It is a stat (dmg to champs) that matters, but is by no means the only one. When you fail to recognize its value, you are equally ignorant to those who see it as the only stat that matters.

LXIISep 15, 201611 votes

"Shroom placement is a skill"

FUCKING FINALLY! Somebody else gets it!

It's not like you can just throw those fuckers anywhere you want and get a penta.

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=CB Thea Queen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AdsaoePb,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-09-15T20:28:53.022+0000)

"Shroom placement is a skill"

FUCKING FINALLY! Somebody else gets it!

It's not like you can just throw those fuckers anywhere you want and get a penta.

As somebody who has played Teemo in normals since S2. Placing shrooms is hardly a skill. 90% of Teemo's know at least the basic positions. And even if you throw them in all kinds of random places, they will still contribute to damage done.

LXIISep 15, 20165 votes

I don't like to bring up rank, but when you're borderline bronze and all of my accounts heavily outrank you I don't really wanna have a debate on what counts as "skill" but I'll humor you.

The enemy literally just has to buy 2 sweepers and for the average Teemo that's it, game over, you'll never shroom again. Here is where using only "the basic positions" that 90% of Teemo players know leads to you doing nothing. You have to not only know where you can sneak them in but also where you can place some obvious ones to bait out your opponents sweepers ahead of time. Then there is YOUR positioning relative to said shroom which plays a huge factor in whether or not the shroom results in a kill or just a chunked enemy that will go heal it off. Now if you're just "throwing them in random places" you're probably not hitting anyone, so we don't need to go too deep on that. If you do manage to hit someone it'll usually be literally 1 person which isn't gonna crank your damage numbers too high anyway.

TL;DR You can't just pinpoint the main part of someone's kit and say "Nope, no skill, doesn't count. If I had done that damage by right clicking with Caitlyn then yeah, but nope all you did was employ a beautiful minefield of death but a baby could have done that."

Amasa DelanoSep 16, 20161 votes

If you don't like to bring up rank, don't.

LXIISep 16, 20161 votes

Said I don't like to, not that I didn't want to or wouldn't. Reading comprehension doll. It helps.

Amasa DelanoSep 17, 20161 votes

Thanks, edited.

MagicFlyingLlamaSep 15, 20163 votes

It is an important stat. The correction is damage to_ champions,_ not damage to_ everything._

Some adjustment for supports and jungler is needed, but laners can be judged by it much better than by kills, especially since most underfed, shitty elow ADCs try to killsteal as hard as possible, then brag about how good they are with 74 CS and 4/1 at 20 minutes.

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 20169 votes

{quoted}

It is an important stat. The correction is damage to_ champions,_ not damage to_ everything._

Some adjustment for supports and jungler is needed, but laners can be judged by it much better than by kills, especially since most underfed, shitty elow ADCs try to killsteal as hard as possible, then brag about how good they are with 74 CS and 4/1 at 20 minutes.

Damage dealt to champions is a poor way to measure the quality of somebody's play. If I have an Ashe who got camped early game and could not snowball or harass much, so her 'damage dealt to champions' is low because she was smart and played safe. But still lands all her ults, uses her vision in valuable places, kites well, slows enemies at critical moments and positions good. I'd much prefer her to a feeding Ashe who cannot use her kit correctly but did 50k damage to enemy champions. We are more likely to win with the first option, than the second. Just hitting enemy champions with damage, harass and AoE doesn't make somebody a good player. In that case I would play suicide Karthus every game.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 16, 20161 votes

You won't win teamfights when all your adc can contribute is some cc. If you have someone else to make up her missing dmg, nice and good for your team you should gift that player a skin. Other than that if an adc doesn't deal dmg he failed his job. End of story. The small part laning phase doesn't even contribute much to damage dealt to champions considering you won't deal any dmg in the early game. Btw funny you took ashe with the most valuable ult out of all adcs except maybe miss fortune so for her you might make some excuses but that's it. Just take a twitch, draven, lucian who can only contribute dmg. If they have 10k dmg dealt in a 30+ min game and your top full tank nautilus dealt 40k your adc failed his job. You will get to a point where you will notice you lack dmg in teamfights. A game is won by two things: objectives and killing the enemy. If you don't have damage: you won't kill the enemy and will have a hard time winning the game. You say dealing lots of AOE dmg doesn't mean anything. When i'm playing let's say GP. Constantly hitting barrels and chunking the enemy down so they need to back and we can take some objectives i contributed more to the team than ashe who once hit her ult and remained useless after that. Btw i take the ashe who atleast knows how to rightclick and deal 50k dmg over the ashe who just stands back throws one ult and one W and remains useless after that. You also said farm heavy jungler and splitpushing and such. What if i told you you can take objectives and still deal high dmg to the enemy team? Knowing when to teamfight and when to apply pressure is a very important skill and one of the most valuable ones.

youngjake93Sep 15, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AdsaoePb,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-15T19:27:00.135+0000)

And one of the less important ones if you aren't a pure ADC/APC.

I can go 1/12/4 on Zyra, Karthus or Teemo and still have the most damage done. I can play Udyr jungle, cap dragons, counter jungle, take barons, gank well, end positive and win. And have least damage done. People need to stop bringing up damage dealt as if it is an important stat.

Most of the time, laners will have more damage done than junglers. DPS will have more than supports. Tanks could get a lot or none depending on how things go. But in the end, did the person partake in objectives, help in fights, play mechanically well, ping mias, ward well, push when it was needed, not feed and overall play their champion to a good level? If yes, then I don't give a damn if they have lowest damage done. It's not a super important stat, stop bringing it up.

Sincerely, your farm heavy junglers and supports.

But you see, when our ADC does 9k dmg and I do 45k dmg as a Renekton, I'm gonna point it out lol.

You can visibly see when a carry is not clicking on ppl and doing dmg and its pretty validating to see their dmg to champ stat reflect what frustrated you in the game.

Especially if the ADC brags about being 6-2 when the only reason they had a good KDA is because they played incredibly selfishly+far back and contributed sooo little dmg to the teamfight.

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But you see, when our ADC does 9k dmg and I do 45k dmg as a Renekton, I'm gonna point it out lol.

You can visibly see when a carry is not clicking on ppl and doing dmg and its pretty validating to see their dmg to champ stat reflect what frustrated you in the game.

Especially if the ADC brags about being 6-2 when the only reason they had a good KDA is because they played incredibly selfishly+far back and contributed sooo little dmg to the teamfight.

Again, I said it applies to ADCs and APCs. And that is an extreme example.

youngjake93Sep 15, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AdsaoePb,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-09-15T22:00:01.642+0000)

Again, I said it applies to ADCs and APCs. And that is an extreme example.

Happens all the time lol. I'm an aggressive player and usually pump out way more dmg than the rest of my team regardless of role or champion. We win when they match my aggression and follow up, we lose when they stand back and flame me for being too aggro.

Mira Arya EntheSep 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Happens all the time lol. I'm an aggressive player and usually pump out way more dmg than the rest of my team regardless of role or champion. We win when they match my aggression and follow up, we lose when they stand back and flame me for being too aggro.

I play Shyvana. I like aggressive players ;D

I even secondary Leona and Sejauni.

LXIISep 15, 20162 votes

To be fair Teemo only gets his damage off with good placement so it's a semi accurate representation of his contribution to the team.

Now the Annie and Zyra supports of the world with "gg report team noobs did less damage than SUPPORT HAHAHAHAHAHA".. That's something else entirely.

Papa SlothySep 15, 20162 votes

damage dealt is important on specific champions that solely rely on dealing high damage in teamfights or splitpushing and dueling whoever comes

ƒoesSep 15, 20162 votes

i played mundo once, went 3/6 and did the most damage in the game by a margin of about 10,000.

we lost.

underscores222Sep 16, 20162 votes

No one stat gives the whole picture to how well you helped your team. Damage dealt to champs is important (you can't win games without killing the enemy team) but so is damage taken, healing done, turrets taken, kda, wards placed, etc etc etc

Doing damage matters, yes, but stepping on a teemo shroom, taking half my health, and backing to heal doesn't really do much for the team (unless a fight happens to break out at that exact point). Even doing a ton of damage but dying in the process is worthless unless your team can pick up the kills.

Mira Arya EntheSep 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No one stat gives the whole picture to how well you helped your team. Damage dealt to champs is important (you can't win games without killing the enemy team) but so is damage taken, healing done, turrets taken, kda, wards placed, etc etc etc

Doing damage matters, yes, but stepping on a teemo shroom, taking half my health, and backing to heal doesn't really do much for the team (unless a fight happens to break out at that exact point). Even doing a ton of damage but dying in the process is worthless unless your team can pick up the kills.

A very solid post, that exemplifies what I was talking about. Really tired of seeing at the end of my games "I did most damage to champions." 0/10/1(Defeat). Yeh... it really helped us out...

underscores222Sep 16, 20161 votes

I really enjoy those games where it says I deal the most damage to champs on our team... and I'm playing a tank.

Tychusfindlay919Sep 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I really enjoy those games where it says I deal the most damage to champs on our team... and I'm playing a tank.

Darius life is good Darius

(I know hes a juggie but still)

agbudarSep 16, 20162 votes

i bring it up when i as the tank did more damage then my adc and apc combined.

then i tell them to git gud

deservedly so.

CheftoniFTWSep 16, 20162 votes

I agree tho,

It is very annoying for people to look at just their KDA and how much damage they did when in reality they contributed nothing to taking down towers minus the nexus towers.:/

MorgManBasherSep 16, 20162 votes

It's an important stat, it's not the only stat though. Plenty of games where you see someones damage done and you can realize why they seemed so worthless, because they were.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 15, 20161 votes

depends on the champion

when leblanc's damage is 10 times her damage to champions something is wrong

Pawn of heartsSep 15, 20161 votes

" a state that show how much you contribute to a team fight and how much you have accomplish over extent period of the game" "a state that tell everything about your poking harassing"

Pawn of heartsSep 15, 20161 votes

if you have garbage damage you have no fking right to talk shit. reason being is that if it weren't for the people who do the damage you wont even have the time to take objective, kills, and all the thing to win games.

CheftoniFTWSep 16, 20161 votes

Singed My standard KDA 0/6/5 (Most deaths are suicide) Top lane is the first lane to have inhib down before my teammates tackle their first tower.

ApollogySep 16, 20161 votes

I usually end up with about as much damage as a support when I play a tank or an objectives focused jungler...

But damage dealt total, (there's two stats, one for damage to champs, and one for damage to everything).

I almost always can dish out far more damage than everyone else to the map, to minion waves, to objectives, to towers, etc... usually when I'm focused on winning.

But sometimes my malphite can dish out more damage to champs than a late game Vayne...

But yeah, agreed 100%, that's not the only stat that matters and it's not the only stat that matters when determining who carried a game. Sometimes I build a lot of damage on my junglers, but still only do as much as a support or our top laner... In those cases, I was able to isolate enemy carries and delete them. They only have about 2,000 HP, so if I kill one of them 5-6 teamfights in a row, and then just focus on stunning to peel for my carries, then yeah, I won't do much damage total... But I'm eliminating thousands of damage from the enemy each time.

ADCs for example, are probably hitting tanks and supports who have 3k to 5k HP... And laners in general gain a lot of damage via trading.

GigaPubeSep 16, 20161 votes

you're right, congrats. now help spread the good word and hope riot brings in other important stats like Damage Successfully Shielded/Mitigated/whatever

FortisDominusSep 16, 20161 votes

So my ADC that did 18k damage in a 40 minute game cant be judged by how much damage he did that game? Sorry man, he can be judged. If im playing jungle maokai with no damage items and I do 32k damage that game and lose because my ADC did half the damage I did, I can tell you I didnt lose us that game. Before you say that the ADC didnt get any peel, Thats when you are expected to know how to play your role and not just mindlessly auto attacking expecting everyone to throw their bodies infront of you to protect you...

This is what seperates the good AD's from the bad ones

DrugothSep 16, 20161 votes

I personally like looking at my damage taken stat when I play a tank to gauge how effective I've been as a tank. Sometimes I take over 50% of the teams damage! Similarly I like to look at healing done when i play Nami. If I got more healing than the life stealing champion I feel good.

ShifuneSep 16, 20161 votes

The only time I bring up damage done is when I'm the support and I have more damage dealt than my ADC/Mid. That's a problem. Even when playing mage supports, I'm still sitting on 2 support items, SS and FQ (1 If I decide to sell FQ), so there is no excuse for me to have more damage dealt than you when your entire build is for damage.

Yes, most mage supports do more damage than their ADC early game, but the ADC should blow the support out of the water in damage mid-late game.

Unless you are playing a utility mid, ie. Lulu, Karma, or something similar, the support shouldn't out damage you. And even when playing utility mids, it's still iffy.

So if either of those is the case, I will bring up damage dealt because it is a problem for the team.

OdinakosSep 16, 20161 votes

Its not that hard to do that with a good ap support. A good game with Zyra will easily lead to top damage, take this for example http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1515447020/21695973?tab=stats

At lane, i had the majority of damage done. I poked better and my spells did more damage during trades. Since i had 2 targets thats more health(along with potions and regen) to chew uppon for the charts. My plants and early damage aoe spells, helped a lot for early fights and exchanges. So nothing special. After that i prefered to leave Jinx alone to farm while i was roaming around. An encounter with an enemy would lead to trade with at least 400 damage, this adds up a lot. I solokilled Kindred 3 times (well the third almost, she ulted and someone else finished her off). I participated on a lot of skirmishes and fights ending with 33/42 or 78.5% kill participation. I had to defend undermaned positions, where just by poking and kiting i added up the damage. While providing cover for my team to catchup/farm or defend (top needed 2 people trynda OP plox nerf). Lategame i was fed enouph with a lot of AOE to still contribute a lot of damage. Lets not forget that Rylais Liandries combo does 20-30% of damage with just a plant aa. Stupid you will say, i agree i will reply. That was the reasons i topped damage charts. If you look further you will see that enemy Brand oudamaged Kindred and Vayne. While Kindred was bad, Vayne felt that played better than Brand.

Now about my team. Are they excused they are lower than me? Kayle i honestly dont know. She was snowballed by Trynda due to a gang leading to all ins that someone would die so its obviously she would have less damage for laning and midgame that she would normally do. Still the only uncertain member on my team. Taliyah was playing the clear game with Victor with small exchanges but roamed decently. Her having lower damage than a fed Zyra is expected. Shyvanna controlled the jungle, ganged on crucial moments. I will def give her a pass due to bad team synergy. Look at the teams. No initiation for her, 4 range that can kite her to hell and back. Normals after all wont blame her for the pick. She did what she could do.

And last Jinx. 22k vs 40k. Scrub adc you will say? Not at all. That comparison is a prime example why you cant just compare ap supports with adcs damage charts. Jinx actually played well. She followed up my combos and really when a Zyra combo chews 70% of the enemy health, there is not much to do after that. Late laning and early mid, she farmed while not ignoring objective or defending. She had the most turret kills, most of the time while we were defending mid, she sneaked a tower. There is no damage dealt to objectives chart saddenly but on total damage she was quite ahead. 292k vs 183k that was the second ally. Or 91k for the fed Zyra. Thats a significant difference. Furthermore she managed to snag an impressive amount of cs making her by far the leader on gold income. Her low kill participation is because she chose to play the objective and farm game early. While later she had to single focus targets or kite trynda while i was busy decimating the entire enemy team. It was far harder for her to get assists on mutiple people than i was. After all she did her job of being an onjective destroyer and provide lategame damage to our team. Now that we saw that other factors, its easy to argue that Jinx is not the scrub the damage chart say. Quite the opposite.

Now lets assume i brought a peel support. Janna, my all time favorite who earned her S2 skin while i rarely pick these days because of how unforgiving she is during lane. And tbh that was a bad match for her. Janna does minimal damage and Jinx would have more health to chew upon. On all the phases of the game. Even on an average game i can surpass a similar performance adc with Zyra. While peeling for her and not focusing on the enemy team like i did this game (look at me i am the apc now). Adding to that, on teamfights i would protect her a lot better so she would switch from survival to priority killing mode. No more trynda to worry about, kindred and Vayne can also be peeled away. Jinx would easily have 2 times if not 3 times damage done. So switching from a peel to ap support heavily screws the champion damage of adcs. So lets stop comparing them.

PS: Jinx said she felt bad and that she was actually playing support early. Heh thats what ap supports do m8 they become the carries early, we both played as we should thought. PS2: That trynda was a nightmare, we needed 2 people to stop him, tonight i am def having nightmares of him PS3: It is quite frustrating that there is no objectives killed or damage to objectives stat.

DengedenSep 16, 20161 votes

There's total damage dealt and damage taken too. I'd like a damage dealt after X minutes stat though. For teamfights.

LordGeovanniSep 16, 20161 votes

i dont see much healing provided to allies sheilding provided to allies and things the system just cant pick up like when you save an ally or you engage knowing you will die but win your team the fight

Mira Arya EntheSep 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

i dont see much healing provided to allies sheilding provided to allies and things the system just cant pick up like when you save an ally or you engage knowing you will die but win your team the fight

We could have an 'effective shielding' stat. Like, how much damage was taken by Lux's shield while it was on her/allies. Add that to the 'effective shielding' stat.