People say that tanks are low in damage, but they're only half right...

Done25·Dec 25, 2014·2 votes·506 views

What they don't get is that tanks are, by design, low in SINGLE TARGET damage. But they're great in dealing AoE. And for good reasons too, just think about it.

What are Tanks used for? They are high CC melee ranged "mages", they works best when paired with others. Where do you find the most allies at once? In a team fight. What's the most efficient type of damage in a team fight? AoE. Therefore, AoE is the best type of damage for a tank to have. (Singed poison trail, Cho'Gath QWE, Rammus Powerball and Tremors, Maokai QER, Nautalis WER, Leona WER, etc etc.)

13 Comments

KingsgraveDec 25, 20144 votes

Most tanks also get outclassed by most bruisers.

Done25Dec 25, 20142 votes

{quoted}

Most tanks also get outclassed by most bruisers.

That has less to do with tanks, and more the fact that bruisers are the 1v1 counterparts to a tank's AoE damage. And since S1 the Meta has been "load ALL of the gold onto the adc/marksman." And since J4 is a lot better at killing Tristana than Alistar is he "appears" to be better. (Because the Meta fits him more.)

AtheosisXDec 25, 20143 votes

Tank aoe damage is generally pretty weak too. Tanks usually have aoe cc. That's where their value to a team is, not in their damage.

Done25Dec 25, 20142 votes

{quoted} i Tank aoe damage is generally pretty weak too. Tanks usually have aoe cc. That's where their value to a team is, not in their damage.

You must have not been here for the terror that was AP Amumu when he was exploding entire teams. His Q and R both had 1.0 ratios on them. (And his R was also larger.)

AtheosisXDec 25, 20143 votes

You must not understand what the word 'generally' means.

Done25Dec 25, 20142 votes

{quoted}

You must not understand what the word 'generally' means.

Then define it. Because I'm pretty sure people used to complain about Singed and they were whining about being killed in top lane by Maokai less than half a year ago.

AtheosisXDec 25, 20143 votes

People complain about all kinds of stupid shit in this game. Singed and Maokai do not have great aoe damage. Also you seem to be confusing bruiser builds for tank builds. Singed and Maokai have to build AP items to do decent damage, and strictly speaking that really isn't building as a true tank. Tank builds have one damage item at most.

Done25Dec 25, 20142 votes

{quoted}

People complain about all kinds of stupid shit in this game. Singed and Maokai do not have great aoe damage. Also you seem to be confusing bruiser builds for tank builds. Singed and Maokai have to build AP items to do decent damage, and strictly speaking that really isn't building as a true tank. Tank builds have one damage item at most.

Rod of Ages, Ryla's, Hourglass, Abyssal. All of these increase a tank's damage while also increasing his survivability. And I wouldn't say that a tank only buys one damage items, so much as they can only AFFORD one. Since most gold goes to getting Vayne into her hyper carry status ASAP.

Anyone can build pure defence. See ye old "tank Teemo" or "tank Soraka".

If anything I would say that you have bruisers and tanks confused. Not that I blame you. Riot has done a poor job in seperating two very similar roles. The big difference is that tanks use their CC heavy abilities often, and thus want to strengthen said abilities to increase their effects. (CDR)

Bruisers, however, rely more on their auto attacks. Amumu Qs into Corki then starts to throw tantrums and cry. J4 Qs in, then starts to auto attack.

Amumu build Abyssal Scepter, J4 builds Maw. Would you agree with this?

AtheosisXDec 25, 20141 votes

Generally I see bruisers as champs who mix durability with damage dealing, ability-based or AA-based makes little difference. Some are more tanky, some are more damage-oriented. Tanks on the other hand build to live as long as possible so that they can disrupt the enemy teams with cc as long as possible. You can build a tank in a bruiser fashion to deal more damage and live a little shorter under focused fire, and you can build bruisers more tanky to outlast opponents rather than straight damage race them (or in cases like Nasus where their damage output is good regardless of items). What truly defines the two roles though is that bruisers generally have little to no cc and their cc is usually one target rather than AOE. There are of course champs that blend the two, but that is the general model I follow when looking at champs. Tanks are not inherently more tanky than bruisers by the way, they are just better building with minimal damage items versus bruisers (with exceptions). So:

Tank: Alistar, Amumu, Malphite, Maokai, Nautilus, Sion

Bruiser: Darius, Dr. Mundo, Garen, Vi, Volibear, Warwick

Done25Dec 25, 20141 votes

Tank: Alistar, Amumu, Malphite, Maokai, Nautilus, Sion

Bruiser: Darius, Dr. Muo, Garen, Vi, Volibear, Warwick

You say the AA part makes little difference to you, yet your list is split near perfectly between bewteen people who use their spells to damage the enemy (ex. Amumu and Mao) and people who use abilities to increase the damage they do personally. (Vi's Denting Blows and Warwick's Hunter's Call.) They also fit the AP vs AD split I mentioned before. (Minus Malphite who can go either AD or AP, or Sion who is a tank while alive, and a bruiser after he dies.)

AtheosisXDec 25, 20141 votes

I'm not following what you are saying. Volibear and Warwick are not AD champs (they are hybrid damage/on-hit champs). Neither is Mundo really (his damage is predominantly magical as I recall). Nor are all of the bruisers I listed oriented heavily towards auto attacks. Garen in particular is all about ability use to deal damage. How champs deal damage doesn't matter, it's the aoe cc that primarily differentiates a tank from a bruiser. A very simple way to look at it is can you effectively peel for your carry and can you effectively initiate team fights. Volibear can peel somehwat but he has no initiate. The rest of my examples have little to no peel and no team initiate. The tanks I listed all fulfill both criteria.

Done25Dec 25, 20141 votes

{quoted}

I'm not following what you are saying. Volibear and Warwick are not AD champs (they are hybrid damage/on-hit champs). Neither is Mundo really (his damage is predominantly magical as I recall).

I'll try and break down all your points.

Both Warwick and Volibear get a large amount of attack speed, and Devourer and Wit's End are basically magical versions of AD items. Another thing is that Warwick's R and Volibear's Rolling Thunder both scale off of AD and not AP. (See Volibear's Rolling Thunder Vs Singed's Fling.)

Mundo's Q and W are both magical damage, but he barely has any AP scaling. (Only a piddly 0.2 on W). His E however, is one of THE most powerful steroids in the game, easily giving him up to 150~185 AD. Most of his damage still comes from slapping people.

Nor are all of the bruisers I listed oriented heavily towards auto attacks. Garen in particular is all about ability use to deal damage.

Garen may spend a large time spinning to win, but his Q is still an empowered auto attack, one that can be quite deadly if you manage to attack chain two criticals together. (Attack -> Q)

How champs deal damage doesn't matter, it's the aoe cc that primarily differentiates a tank from a bruiser.

Most tanks do have a large amount of AoE, that's what I said in my OP. o_o (Amumu's Curse of the Sad Mummy vs Warwick's Infinite Duress)

A very simple way to look at it is can you effectively peel for your carry and can you effectively initiate team fights. Volibear can peel somehwat but he has no initiate. The rest of my examples have little to no peel and no team initiate. The tanks I listed all fulfill both criteria.

Vi has two initiation skills. (Q+R) Volibear's Q is both an initiate and a hard peel. Warwick's R is one of the best initiations in the game. (A targeted flash+supression on a low CD.)

Garen and Mundo only have move speed boosters, but they can be used to a lesser effect.

Darius is the only one without any form of initiation.

AtheosisXDec 26, 20141 votes

Team fight initiate. What you are calling initiates are not actually. Running fast at the enemy is not a team fight initiate move. Nor is a single target gap closer.