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How to rework Shaco into a functioning, slightly less frustrating champion to play against.

ChickenWrap··7 votes·799 views

#How to rework Shaco into a functioning, slightly less frustrating champion to play against while keeping his core identity and what SHaco players enjoy about playing Shaco reasonably in-tact.

Reasons why people hate fighting against Shaco: True stealth/tactical stealht. Warding properly and taking the correct precautions seems to be a major problem for players playing against Shaco. They don't like the fear from boxes, especially if they don't have time to counterplay and kill them in time. They don't like the fact that Shaco can get away from them when they're chasing him.

Reasons why Shaco players love Shaco: His thematic, his identity, the rush and insanity you feel playing a murderous clown-jester. The thrill of a great out-play or out-maneuver on your opponent. Psychological gameplay is huge and he should have the ability to split-push if the need truly calls for it. Can be played AP or AD.

**Reasons why Shaco players dislike playing as Shaco: ** Backstab feels bad to use if you're building crit. After reaching your target, you have no way to stick on them. You don't deal enough damage to actually kill anybody, all your damage comes from items, you have no real ratios outside of your E, you deal hybrid damage so going full AP or full AD is really difficult because if someone buys armour, your AP build is ruined but if they buy MR then you lose a lot of damage on your W and R as well, boxes can die or people walk out of their range before they arm, and if you're invaded early on, your entire early jungle game is ruined because you lost all your boxes.

What I propose: Give Shaco players the ability to make choices and provide visible counterplay to his kit that other players can tangibly see without having to think ahead. Remove the parts of Shaco that both parties hate, and give him the ability to make building penetration and crit worthwhile.

With that all said and done, this is the rework that I suggest:

Passive: Backstab. Works the same as current except deals bonus damage if Shaco crits instead of having the crit over-ride the backstab entirely (includes the AP damage bonus) Shaco's abilities have additional effects when used from stealth. The next ability Shaco casts while in or for 2 seconds after leaving stealth has a bonus effect.

Q: Shaco blinks to a location, gaining a short detection-range (200? 300? He's melee with no other gap-closer) strategic stealth/Camoflauge for 2.75/3.25/3.75/4.25/4.75 seconds. W: Shaco's jabs his shiv into his opponent (AA reset. If too strong, can be an AA modifier), dealing physical damage and slowing his target. If used from stealth, 1/4th of the damage +70?% AP is re-applied as a DoT poison effect (magic damage) over 3-5? seconds. This will not break stealth. E: Shaco slashes his daggers in an arc in front of him, dealing AoE physical damage (+35% AP) and terrifying monsters for 1 second. If used from stealth, this ability cripples his target, reducing their attack speed (Deals double damage to champions) R: Remains the same, boxes and all.

What are your thoughts/opinions on the changes? Is there anything that still looks frustrating to play against or as on Shaco? Would you like to see this implemented on the live servers one day as a rework?

5 Comments

Revive Dominion1 votes

You listed one of his positives is that people like playing him AP or AD. Removing his Throwing Knife would gimp AP Shaco to the point of nothingness, he would have literally no poke and this vision radius would make even a Lich Bane burst build with the "new W" not viable.

Also making Back Stabs Crit would be insane. If you have watched any high level Shaco play, they consistently backstab, which with crit on top of that they'd just 1 or 2 shot people all game instead of 3 shot.

ChickenWrap1 votes

AP Shaco isn't just about poke. They already gimped that when they removed his 100% Ap ratio. With this new build, he would still be able to function as a top laner, but a different kind of top laner, and trust me -- I love lane Shaco.

The vision radius wouldn't be bad since like all AP items Shaco wants would have movement speed attached to them. I have changed his passive to allow for the use of gunblade or protobelt to gapclose and use his W in time. AP and AD Shaco both already play somewhat similar as it is, so having them continue to play similarly is a plus.

The backstab crits would end up working out to something reasonable for Shaco. His crits shouldn't override his passive entirely, should they? He should still get some small modicum of bonus damage from it, right? There's a reason Shaco builds don't have much crit attached to them -- because it's a wasted stat if it goes off when you backstab someone, as it negates the effect of his passive entirely.

Slowbro1 votes

Well done mate. So far i like that rework but let me add some points.

Passive: Whenever Shaco hits from behind he slows his enemy for 30 % for 0,75 seconds. Something around that. (I like your second part, that applies additional effects when skills used from stealth maybe those effects can trigger if enemy is slowed. So whenever you succesfully trigger your passive you will benefit. Futhermore your team can help you if there are any champs with slowing effects and you get more viable in team fights)

Q: Leave the stealth like it is but i think the duration right now is way to long. Soemthing about 2.0/2.2/2.4/2.6/2.8/3 is more than enough. Also your next basic Attack is modified by % adaptive damage that increase with maxing the skill or just reduce the cd of the skill and keep a defined % adaptive scaling. No base stat, just adaptive so it scales and the skill should be fine (at least in my opinion) also no cd reduction when hit. there you have a nice duration on level 1, no base damage, maybe scaling will increase with leveling the skill but not necessary or just reducing the cd.

W: I like your idea. Can be an AA reset but should break stealth and DOT should only apply when enemy is slowed

E: Sounds good to me but should be adaptive Damage as well.

R: Totally agree.

With this kit he would benefit if he positions well. He must attack from behind to trigger his passive and therefore other skills get stronger. He has scaling but no real base damage except on E, which is fine to me. He has burst potential and will be punished if mispositioned or overextend. Also his escape is lowered. That results in presurring him to use flash instead of ignite and making him more viable for mid/late game. If you take ignite you have better early but you get punished in late because you have lesser escape. I would miss the boxes because i really love them, i love their outplay potential but paired with the amount of Q duration right now its just unfair.

El Muñoncitos1 votes

To rework shaco not being losing his identity i think It Will be something like this:

Passive: backstab.-Shaco gets crits on Monsters back attacks.

On champs % current HP dmg scaling on AP/level. This way makes a usefull passive with reason CD (maybe 5-10-15%) so now his passive adds a little burst with 0,2 AP ratio. Magic dmg or physical dmg dunno.

Q:deceve rank 1 last two secs stealth instead of 1,5 like now. Additionally gives shaco letality Flat shred amount on first attack after use( like sudden impact mastery) like 5 per rank(25 Max) .

Nerf stealth Up to 3.5 secs Max level. Reduce global CD to 10 seconds at Max rank. This Will make shaco late stealth more counterable and reusable.

This way deceive helps with burst and can be appealed to Maximize the skill for more burst early.(25 letality or 20) darius got 35% and this is Flat only

That way sinergy his assasin role and scaling with ítems like riot wants shaco be.

W Jack in the box: same as now but fixing the fear to 1 sec load to triggers, instead of 1,5. Make It work like zyra plants mechanics..

Reduce GCD 2 secs because now its Too long cd at Max level. Increase AP scaling just a bit.

E 2 shiv poison: increase base damage.(50-250 dmg maybe?).make It a skillshot with more range and 0,75 /0,5 ap. Scaling.

Increase slow effect on auto to 50% slow for 1 sec level BUT rapidly decreases per time if not reapplied. Slow effect Lost if skill go on CD. Like now.

This Will provide more sticky power to shaco and on other hand more oportunnities to enemy counter play.

R: Hallucinate. Same as now but bugfixing Proccing ítem pasives. After shaco death the clone target the last Champion who dmg shaco. When clone dices or explodes dealing 10-15-20% max HP as Magic dmg scaling with AP.1% per 50 AP ratio (base damage 50-100-200 Minimum).

With these changes shaco can get back to his assasin role and still need itemized on autos to finish. Not giving him Flat dmg instead other assasin but sred bonuses forces him to mid-late champ with solid dmg and still mitigated with defenses/SHIELD/healing

El Muñoncitos1 votes

[{quoted}](name=l El Muñones l,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AbEET3MR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-27T12:00:36.141+0000)

To rework shaco not being losing his identity i think It Will be something like this:

Passive: backstab.-Shaco gets crits on Monsters back attacks.

On champs % current HP dmg scaling on AP/level. This way makes a usefull passive with reason CD (maybe 5-10-15%) so now his passive adds a little burst with 0,2 AP ratio. Magic dmg or physical dmg dunno.

Q:deceve rank 1 last two secs stealth instead of 1,5 like now. Additionally gives shaco letality Flat shred amount on first attack after use( like sudden impact mastery) like 5 per rank(25 Max) .

Nerf stealth Up to 3.5 secs Max level. Reduce global CD to 10 seconds at Max rank. This Will make shaco late stealth more counterable and reusable.

This way deceive helps with burst and can be appealed to Maximize the skill for more burst early.(25 letality or 20) darius got 35% and this is Flat only

That way sinergy his assasin role and scaling with ítems like riot wants shaco be.

W Jack in the box: same as now but fixing the fear to 1 sec load to triggers, instead of 1,5. Make It work like zyra plants mechanics..

Reduce GCD 2 secs because now its Too long cd at Max level. Increase AP scaling just a bit.

E 2 shiv poison: increase base damage.(50-250 dmg maybe?).make It a skillshot with more range and 0,75 /0,5 ap. Scaling.

Increase slow effect on auto to 50% slow for 1 sec level BUT rapidly decreases per time if not reapplied. Slow effect Lost if skill go on CD. Like now.

This Will provide more sticky power to shaco and on other hand more oportunnities to enemy counter play.

R: Hallucinate. Same as now but bugfixing Proccing ítem pasives. After shaco death the clone target the last Champion who dmg shaco. When clone dices or explodes dealing 10-15-20% max HP as Magic dmg scaling with AP.1% per 50 AP ratio (base damage 50-100-200 Minimum).

With these changes shaco can get back to his assasin role and still need itemized on autos to finish. Not giving him Flat dmg instead other assasin but sred bonuses forces him to mid-late champ with solid dmg and still mitigated with defenses/SHIELD/healing

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