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This is Getting Ridiculous

The Yetii Rider··1 votes·881 views
League of Legends Match History

Okay, I just played a horrible match and now I finally get it. I don't pay attention to Korea or anything and I'm not Diamond so I don't see full meta builds that often. But this was just disgusting.

The MF in my last game had the following build: item 3142 item 3071 item 3006 item 3147 item 3139

And she was still 16/1/8.

I admit, she was good. Definitely a good player, definitely bullied the hell out of my rank 7 mastery Vayne in the bot lane. And I didn't have the best game trying to engage against Morgana. But we had a fed Lux and some early pressure.

I just don't understand. These champions are supposed to be balanced around their auto attacks. Why is full AD with no AS items other than boots and Youmuu's active so effective?

And lowering the AD on that item by 5, while raising the AD on IE and ER by 5 won't change the issue. I don't care what she rushes, I want her to build PD or Shiv or Runaan's or some AS item. I want her to NEED to build crit and AS for her to be effective, so that her freaking burst doesn't hurt so much.

This is why all assassins in the game should just be AP assassins. So that we don't get itemization overlap like this.

17 Comments

Fusarix1 votes

With the amount of pen and flat damage, its stronger than crit MF, especially considering her ultimate can almost instantly apply full black cleaver stacks to your entire team and shred their hp down -- tank or not. Its definatley the better build. That being said this kind of build isnt Healthy for the game imo. I really think the only change that needs to be made is black cleaver should be melee only. That would fix so many issues (Lucian , MissFortune )

I don't like how ad champions get all the options they could possibly want to be a tank killer, but ap champions, mages especially like ziggs / casseio / xerath etc. get void staff, abyssal, or liandries (Which is too expensive to be effective). It sucks for them cause as soon as i finish building item 3065 and item 3102 im basically immune to ap champions.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

They can't make Cleaver melee only, it's a core item rush on Gnar.

Fusarix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWGb5sNF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-06-10T16:15:04.644+0000)

They can't make Cleaver melee only, it's a core item rush on Gnar.

I get that, but so many times Riot throws a champion under the bus in favour for many others. So I don't really think they CAN'T. Just look at the trinity force changes and what that did to bruiser yasuo, and gankplank, and hecarim to a certain extent. None of which got compensation buffs, but they get the nerf anyways

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

I get that, but so many times Riot throws a champion under the bus in favour for many others. So I don't really think they CAN'T. Just look at the trinity force changes and what that did to bruiser yasuo, and gankplank, and hecarim to a certain extent. None of which got compensation buffs, but they get the nerf anyways

Lol, what? Hecarim can use Trinity Force just fine. Cooldown reduction is amazing on Hecarim.

Also, I'm fairly certain Bruiser Yasuo was the entire reason they removed the crit from Trinity Force in the first place (they might not have used that reason publicly, but I think it was their goal the whole time).

And Riot just said a few days ago that they want to keep Gnar in a good spot when his balance was brought up, because he essentially acts as a valve that keeps melee top laners from being picked too often and spiraling out of control. Gnar is basically the only champion Riot has ever designed to specifically be a ranged bully top laner. If he gets too weak then the high level top meta and LCS meta will warp around that. (Ekko and Maokai are bad enough as it is).

Fusarix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWGb5sNF,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-10T16:21:34.595+0000)

Lol, what? Hecarim can use Trinity Force just fine. Cooldown reduction is amazing on Hecarim.

And Riot just said a few days ago that they want to keep Gnar in a good spot when his balance was brought up, because he essentially acts as a valve that keeps melee top laners from being picked too often and spiraling out of control. Gnar is basically the only champion Riot has ever designed to specifically be a ranged bully top laner. If he gets too weak then the high level top meta and LCS meta will warp around that. (Ekko and Maokai are bad enough as it is).

Yeah trifoce works on hec. I just miss the occasional crit on rampage to one shot lol. He doesnt need the attack speed, and yeah the cdr is nice.

Ok sure. But hes not the only ranged top laner that have good matchups into melee champions. Vladimir Swain Lissandra the only thing gnar has over these champions is if your team needs a source of decent AD damage besides your adc. And he can do fine without black cleaver. Plus if the items so good on gnar why haven't I seen a spike in his play since the cost reduction...

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Ok sure. But hes not the only ranged top laner that have good matchups into melee champions. Vladimir Swain Lissandra the only thing gnar has over these champions is if your team needs a source of decent AD damage besides your adc. And he can do fine without black cleaver. Plus if the items so good on gnar why haven't I seen a spike in his play since the cost reduction...

You're correct that these champions all can go top, but they're meant to be mid laners. Gnar was created to go top. And the thing that Gnar has over those champions isn't AD damage, it's tanky initiate and huge CC. Liss has a stun, but Gnar has a stun, a knock back, a long range slow, and another stun if he throws someone into a wall. Plus, in addition to the AD he gets, he also shreds the enemy team's armor with Cleaver, which helps his carry massacre them.

The reason Gnar isn't seeing play right now is because Irelia is so strong, obviously.

Powderkegg1 votes

This build offers a earlier power spike then crit but has a worse late game. Only ad casters, like Lucian and mf, work with this build because the majority of their damage comes from abilities and not auto attacks.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Yeah, but MF's Bullet Time can critically strike. Her Make it Rain doesn't scale off AD, the only ability she has that scales off AD and doesn't use crit is Double Up. I just can't believe the extra damage she gets from raw AD is more powerful than multiplying each shot's base damage plus the AD she does have by 120% on every shot of her ultimate.

Lucian is fine, Lucian is whatever. He can get away with it because he has free AS on his passive and tons of auto resets and his kit is super mobile so he dodges skill shots and yeah.

MF is immobile and roots herself to use one of her strongest abilities, it shouldn't be this hard to kill her when she builds full AD.

Fusarix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWGb5sNF,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-06-10T16:18:20.886+0000)

Yeah, but MF's Bullet Time can critically strike. Her Make it Rain doesn't scale off AD, the only ability she has that scales off AD and doesn't use crit is Double Up. I just can't believe the extra damage she gets from raw AD is more powerful than multiplying each shot's base damage plus the AD she does have by 120% on every shot of her ultimate.

Lucian is fine, Lucian is whatever. He can get away with it because he has free AS on his passive and tons of auto resets and his kit is super mobile so he dodges skill shots and yeah.

MF is immobile and roots herself to use one of her strongest abilities, it shouldn't be this hard to kill her when she builds full AD.

Its more reliable damage too, unless you get 100% crit, which just isnt an effective build. Its much better to guarantee your damage, especially since her ultimate scales so well. YOu should try two games, one with a standard adc build and one with the build you stated in the post. I guarantee youll do more damage with the youmuus cleaver build

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I believe you. It wouldn't be happening so much if it wasn't more effective. It just SHOULDN'T be so effective. The marksman update was very specific with its numbers, and Youmuu's was changed at the same time.

Though I guess the price change on BC might have just made it less of a risk for marksmen to buy...

Fusarix1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWGb5sNF,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-10T16:24:46.648+0000)

I believe you. It wouldn't be happening so much if it wasn't more effective. It just SHOULDN'T be so effective. The marksman update was very specific with its numbers, and Youmuu's was changed at the same time.

Though I guess the price change on BC might have just made it less of a risk for marksmen to buy...

Yeah the cost reduction is why people started building it on ADCS. cause you can hit a power spike sooner, but I agree it shouldnt be the more effective build for a role focused on crit damage...

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

MF does have a pretty giant attack speed steroid on her W, making buying a lot of it a little less important. She's also very ability-based, making crit and attack speed a little less important than raw AD, and ultimately less effective than armor penetration.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Doesn't she max her W second though?

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

Usually, yeah (especially with a build this aggressive; you want a Q max for the lane harass here). Anyway, that means it's completely maxed out by midgame (level 13), and her first items are the AS ones (Youmuu's and Zerkers) so that tides her over until she can max it out.

Fusarix1 votes

Just let MF do the black cleaver shredding Kappa ;). Can't tell if you're joking or not. But Irelia isnt strong >< either way Im just saying If you want black cleaver for gnar so bad, you're gonna have to deal with adcs building it ._.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Just let MF do the black cleaver shredding Kappa ;). Can't tell if you're joking or not. But Irelia isnt strong >< either way Im just saying If you want black cleaver for gnar so bad, you're gonna have to deal with adcs building it ._.

The better way of dealing with Cleaver is probably to make it build out of item 3052 instead of item 3133 and just remove the CDR from the item entirely. That way it's more of a tanky bruiser item and AD casters can't use it as well.

Sona Ping1 votes

Here's what you are not getting:

When you all feed a champion to the point where they have that many kills over everyone, let alone 16/1/8, it kinda stops mattering what they build anymore.

Even if that player built anything else, he would still wreck you all and it would likely be worse if he built like you want him to because those kinds of builds scale better! You don't know what you are talking about.

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWGb5sNF,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-06-10T16:09:34.874+0000)

build crit... so **burst **doesn't hurt so much.

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