@Riot - Please rework penetration

Done25··3 votes·864 views

The case AGAINST the current penetration system:

  1. It's an invisible stat - You can pull up Malzahar's stats and see "Oh, he has 600 AP. That's why I died." You CAN'T pull up his stats and see "Oh, he has X magic penetration. That's why I died."

  2. It's clunky - I've run into a lot of people who simply don't understand how it works in terms of "Can it go under zero?" and "How does it work with % reduction?".

  3. It's a counter to a counter - "Gee, Xin sure is ripping us apart. I had better buy some kind of armor item. Oh, wait, he already has a Last Whisper." At one point Riot said they were going to change Last Whisper and Void Staff to percent of BONUS, but they never did. Speaking of which...

The case for a NEW penetration system:

  1. Change Last Whisper and Void Staff to a percent of bonus - The point of these items is to counter the Rammus with 400 armor/MR, not to make you hit the 60 armor Vayne harder. Change the reduction to bonus and increase it so it better targets those it was meant to counter, and can't just be bought as part of a build path.

  2. Change flat penetration items into reduction - Liandry's Torment gives +15 magic penetration and 50 AP. This is an item designed for long term control mages like Swain. Flat penetration is almost nearly identical to just buying more damage. Reduction however, serves a unique function in that it increases your team's damage. Imagine if it instead read: "Dealing spell damage reduces MR by 10. Stacks up to 3 times for 10 seconds." Now it serves the more unique role of attempting to tag as many people as possible so as to lower their MR and it synergizes with Abyssal Scepter. Apply the same thoughts to Ghostblade and Black Cleaver.

To make it easier to read:

Abyssal Scepter - Abyssal Aura - Reduces nearby enemies' magic resist by 20. Liandry's Torment - Torment - Dealing spell damage to an enemy reduces his magic resist by 10 for 10 seconds up to a cap of 3. Void Staff - +50% penetration of bonus magic resist.

Ghostblade - Unique Passive - Sharp Aura - Reduces nearby enemies' armor by 20. Black Cleaver - Unique Passive - Sundering Blows - Dealing physical damage to an enemy reduces his armor by 10 for 5 seconds up to a cap of 3. Last Whisper - +50% penetration of bonus armor.

Bonus round: Wit's End - I think they need to remove/rework this item. It used to remove mana, but that was deemed silly and it was taken out. Then it was fused with Malady's MR reduction. Now we have an awkward to build item, mostly attack speed, that makes no sense. You build silly amounts of attack speed in order to gain on hit damage and MR reduction?

3- Sorc boots and flat penetration runes - Should probably just be tossed into the incinerator. Ionian boots serve the same niche in that it increases how much damage you can put out with your abilities, but by increasing how many times they get used. If you get hit 3 times by Veigar's Dark Matter you have only yourself to blame. But if you get exploded in a single combo while you were stunned, well that doesn't feel very satisfying does it? Not to mention, Ionian helps both AD casters and utilities mages as well. So not only does it cover Sorc's niche, but a larger one to boot.

5 Comments

Worgslarg3 votes

I feel that some abilities granting bonus armor penetration, like xin's passive, should remain % of all armor.

But with last whisper/ void staff, this would be a great change.

Sluiceway2 votes

Pen is not an invisible stat entirely. All a player has to do is hit tab and see if the enemy has a penetration item in their build. The one thing I do find lacking in the penetration items is a hybrid penetration item for mixed damage champions. On the other side, I think there needs to be an item like the Runic Bulwark Riot removed from the game so that GA is not the only item a player can build against mixed damage champions.

Serpents Embrace1 votes

You had me at the last whisper and void staff part, but list me with the rest. :\

Especially the Sorc boots removal in favor of lucidity. You must be unaware of CDR over saturation being the issue it is.

Done252 votes

You had me at the last whisper and void staff part, but list me with the rest. :\

Especially the Sorc boots removal in favor of lucidity. You must be unaware of CDR over saturation being the issue it is.

You don't have to agree with the entire thing. But the %penetration is probably the biggest offender to me. Almost all carries will build their respective item, not because they need it but, because it's always useful end game even if the opponent doesn't build extra defenses.

And I was unaware that CDR saturation was an issue. Explain?

Pen is not an invisible stat entirely. All a player has to do is hit tab and see if the enemy has a penetration item in their build. The one thing I do find lacking in the penetration items is a hybrid penetration item for mixed damage champions. On the other side, I think there needs to be an item like the Runic Bulwark Riot removed from the game so that GA is not the only item a player can build against mixed damage champions.

Not entirely invisible is just another way of saying partially invisible. And if you don't know about how to see, or don't like to peek at, your opponent's runes then you have no way of knowing if that Veigar going mid has an extra +15 MPen that you can't see in game.

I feel that some abilities granting bonus armor penetration, like xin's passive, should remain % of all armor.

But with last whisper/ void staff, this would be a great change.

Champion based reduction is fine! I just want to fix Caitlyn grabbing Last Whisper without stopping to think if she needs it or if another item might be better.

Jhecht1 votes

Could your problem be fixed if you could see an opponent's armor and magic resistance values?

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