Mages versus Assassins - And more specifically, Immobility+Range versus Mobility+Melee.

MissingKayo··31 votes·6,323 views

Warning, extremely long post ahead.

The benefits mages have are long range, CC, and AoE. The benefits assassins have are mobility - and sometimes stealth/untargetability.

The downsides of mages are no mobility and usually most of their abilities being skillshots and thus being missable or blockable. The downsides of assassins are that they are melee and single-target, and that their burst is now delayed further (after the assassin rework).

So what’s the problem, you ask?

It’s that SAFETY >>> MOBILITY.

Mobility only means anything if you can successfully get in, kill the target, and then get back out. For multiple reasons, all of the squishy carries that would be a mage or assassin’s target must be killed instantly, because otherwise it is impossible to kill them, whether it be because of lifesteal, shielding items, healing items, peeling, or the arguably overloaded Exhaust summoner spell.

Sure, assassins are able to flit around quickly and occasionally flank.

But what happens in the critical moment where the killing must actually occur?

All assassins (with the exceptions of Kha’Zix and Rengar) must wait some large amount of time for their burst to fully take effect. Because of the above stated reasons, this is impractical to actually killing any important target. In addition, because they are melee, it is easy to CC, Exhaust, peel, or even kill them, due to them being in point-blank range and entirely single-target.

What about mages?

Mages have no mobility, so they are vulnerable to someone jumping on them, correct?

Well no, not exactly. First of all, unlike assassins, mages are always with the rest of their team. They have no reason to leave the safety of a team because they are ranged and have AoE abilities. There is no reason to jump into the dangers of close proximity to the enemy team because of that reason either.

What about burst power levels? Do assassins have stronger burst damage than mages? Nope. Both of them have enough damage to delete a carry if allowed to do so. But which one will be more consistently and safely allowed to do so? The mages.

Portions of mage abilities (and sometimes rather important ones) can be blocked by tanks. This includes abilities such as Lux Q, Ahri E, Vel’Koz Q, blah blah blah. BUT. The majority of mage abilities are ALL AoE. This means it is quite easy to circumvent the blocking potential. This includes abilities such as Brand’s W, Malzahar’s Q, Lux E, etcetera. In addition, almost every single current relevant mage either has a point-and-click ultimate or a massively large AoE. Syndra, Veigar, Malzahar, Brand and others fall under the first category. Lux, Annie, Viktor, Orianna, Ziggs and others being the second.

Now, assassins mostly have point-and-click abilities. That means it is much harder for those abilities to miss, in comparison to skillshot or delayed abilities such as the ones listed above. However, unlike the mage, the only chance an assassin has to use the ability is in point-blank range.

In lategame, both mages and assassins have fairly short cooldowns on all abilities including ultimates. Mages are free to test abilities at long range. If they do not land it, they can simply wait a few seconds and try again, or at the very least, not put themselves in a dangerous position. Assassins must use the abilities at close range. In addition, to get in said range quickly enough to not be stopped, they must either flank or use their mobility tool. If they use their mobility tool, there is no escape for them if they fail against any sort of intelligent team.

This was the problem with the Fizz rework as well. His engage potential was completely shoved into his ultimate. If he landed it on the ADC or mage, he could go in for a kill most likely. If he didn’t, he could do absolutely nothing except waiting for the next ultimate to come up.

Also, mage players at any higher ELO level will land most of their abilities. Even if they don’t, by mid and lategame, and any time in the game with teamfights specifically , landing any ability, ESPECIALLY crowd control abilities, is almost certain death for squishy victims, or at least major chunking of their health, enough to take them effectively out of the fight just as death would.

The point is that assassins get no second chances if they fail. THEY SHOULD NOT EITHER. If they fail in an engage, they deserve to die. However, the issue is that mages simply outclass assassins. If mages fail a killing attempt, they can just wait and try again, from long range. THEY SHOULD NOT DIE. Unless of course, they failed in positioning or such otherwise. But they are long range. They should have more safety. However, in terms of the killing job itself, assassins SHOULD be better at it. Otherwise, there is next to no reason to even pick them.

Low ELO and people being out of position leading to assassins becoming fed doesn’t matter. Smart players won't do that. In teamfights, mages outclass assassins in just about every single way.

This is similar to the case with Ahri. For instance, a pure burst mage such as Brand or Veigar will almost always have higher burst than her. Theoretically, let’s say 2500 damage in compared to 5000. But so what? Tanks aren’t the target. The carries are. Tanks can be just held back by CC. The carries are the ones doing the damage.

Ahri trades damage for safety. Except carries don't even have 2500 health come lategame, so the trade in damage barely matters. If Ahri lands her E, they will die. The end. The only difference is that Brand or Veigar could probably do it quicker. But Ahri can still certainly do it quickly enough to kill the carry before they can do anything to survive.

In return, what does she gain? Mobility while keeping the LONG RANGE, and in turn, even more safety.

That is why Ahri may not be overpowered by any means, but she is simply too safe of a pick and strong specifically BECAUSE she is well-rounded in every single option.

So what's the whole point of this wall of text? It's to show why Assassins will never be better than Mages unless significant changes are made, because immobility and range is so much better than mobility and melee, because the former grants safety that the latter will never have.

Sure, assassins can escape on their own if they haven't burnt their mobility ability to attempt an assassination first. But that means nothing when their sole purpose is to assassinate.

Mages generally can't escape. They don't need to though. Between Zhonya’s and multiple items with health, resistances, or other potential lifesavers (Protobelt dash, slows on items, etc), CC, range and AoE, and them always being with their team, it is unlikely they will ever be the first to die, or die at all, unless the rest of their team takes at least a few deaths as well.

This is why mages will always be better than assassins because range and immobility gives safety (not even counting CC vs lack of it) while melee and mobility only gives safety up until the mobility ability is burnt. Mages get second chances because they never get in close range, assassins won’t because they burnt their mobility tool already and are now deep in the enemy team. Mages also stick with their team, assassins flank solo or go solo. Again, more safety for the former the latter will never have.

And even more generally, not counting mages vs assassins, but all of League in general, safety and range is better than mobility and melee. The latter is only good in 1v1s which will never happen in lategame really, as teamfights are what dominate, and only bad players would be out of position to be 1v1’d if they were a carry. The former with safety and range but no mobility will just stick with their team and do everything from range. If they fail, just try again. No risk to themselves.

Tanks don't need mobility. The only ones with mobility are the ones that are fairly squishy. Tanks also generally don't need range because they engage in point-blank and soak up damage and abilities. So they are not relevant to this debate.

TL;DR - Immobility and Range are always better than Mobility and Melee

78 Comments

Asayake 5150glow21 votes

And then you have Leblanc with the range of a battle mage, damage of a burst mage, and mobility of a skirmisher. I said burst mage instead of assassin because burst mages outdamage assassins.

Ahristocats11 votes

you forgot in your thread that assassins have troubles to lane against mages

MissingKayo11 votes

I was more focusing on their impact on teamfights and taking out carries, rather than specifically versus each other. Sorry, my title was a little misleading.

But that does apply too, with mages having better waveclear than assassins as well as the range benefit.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Most Assassins have on par waveclear mid game. Akali, Zed, Fizz, Talon, LeBlanc, Kassadin, Katarina, and Rengar all have very good waveclear as it enables them to roam and do their job.

MissingKayo9 votes

Akali has one of the worst laning phases in the game from what I remember.

Zed is one of the exceptions in terms of waveclear.

New Fizz W is alright but still gets completely bullied by any ranged matchup.

Talon is basically same as above, the waveclear being on his Q instead (W drains too much mana in early).

LeBlanc is basically a mobile mage.

Kassadin is rarely even played, and I can't say much about him.

Katarina suffers from the same melee issue, but her passive AoE and E blinking makes it a little easier on her.

Rengar doesn't even waveclear, he's a jungler.

Requiemsfire1 votes

On Talon, W is what you use for waveclear as Q puts you into melee range.

MissingKayo1 votes

W only gets used sparingly because of the mana cost problem.

Against ranged matchups, Talon farms closer to tower with melee-range Q for AA reset + sustain.

Spicy Rice3 votes

As long as you don't spam it like a monkey, his w useage is very forgiving (compared to his previous incarnation )

Chaotic Reks1 votes

Kassadin is rarely even played, and I can't say much about him.

Kass is still king of lategame

Spicy Rice5 votes

I never knew lategame was 80 mins in

h5LYF41Lam1 votes

kassadin the assasin who can only kill himself.

Mogarl10 votes

I find it silly that assassin players want

  • to be able to "go in" and kill a target
  • find death justifiable for failure
  • want assassins to be viable while"balanced" in a high Elo

A champion that can 100-0 kill another champion while they are with their team will never be balanced and viable at high Elo. If you can out position the assassin (which should be expected of someone at high Elo) then they shouldn't be able to 100-0 you. If they can still kill you while you're positioned well with your team then they are either significantly overpowered, or die afterward.

Finally by picking an ad assassin you force your team to be squishier. Until marksman aren't required, by picking an ad mid you force a third person on your team to be a magic damage dealer in order for your damage to not be itemized against. You also screw over that still necessary marksman by picking an assassin because now they have one less person to protect them in a meta where they are frequently meeting grisly ends.

However I'm honestly a little baffled as to where this assassin circle jerk is coming from seeing as most assassins are within 2% win-rate of 50% with the exception of Le Blanc who has a rather high win-rate.

LankPants1 votes

However I'm honestly a little baffled as to where this assassin circle jerk is coming from seeing as most assassins are within 2% win-rate of 50% with the exception of Le Blanc who has a rather high win-rate.

One important fact, Kha'zix isn't within 2% of 50%, he's well over it.

An Undead brat1 votes

https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

49.83 %

Indeed.

(Not saying Kha isn't havily overtuned, but there's no need to lie. He's in the 2% radius unless very high Elo, but compared to other assassins there, by a winrate he's MEDIOCRE.)

LankPants1 votes

https://na.op.gg/champion/khazix/statistics/jungle

The important thing is, we don't care about lower ranks that much. The cancer bug has a 53.4% winrate in Plat+. So yeh, not lying at all.

It's also worth noting that Rengar, Shaco, Talon, Leblanc and to some extent Zed also have very out of line winrates.

Use this page https://na.op.gg/champion/statistics rather than statistics/champion.

a special one1 votes

lbs winrate=49.7 lmao

Lord Desert1 votes

guys hold your horses, champion.gg has only analyzed 7474 games, which is far to low to get any meaningfull conclusion... but they just started the gathering. Sites like lolalytics or op.gg start imediatly when a new patch is realised. Both have ups and downs. Op.gg show trends faster, more accurate early. But Champion.gg shows the data after the dust settels, so the "new" strategys builds etc. are well known and some counters may already be developed by the players. So the first/"raw" judgment is more accurate. But only after they have gathered enough data, meaing it will some out far later then the others. Meaning that we will get pretty accurate results later from Champion.gg, and more "spiky" early results from op.gg at the start. But for now i would trust the data from OP.GG and lolalytics more.

Edit: Kha, for example, has 21k games on champion.gg with a 52.4% winrate. OP.gg says 53.3% and lolalytics 52.9% so we can say that kha is indeed strong. With a playrate of 20-25%ish this also indicates that he is too strong, and needs a nerf, or in this cases, riot should lower the Lethality algorythm down to 50% start +50% scaling.... Whoever die the math on 60+40 and said this works fine should look at the numbers again, seriously, its insane! xD Im not biased here, i did the math behind it!

serenity78 votes

I agree with your entire post. The unique strength that assassins have that most mages cannot bring to a teamfight is the element of surprise. Like when one team thinks the fight is in their favor, an assassin can turn the tide by attacking when its least expected. I wish that this deceptive quality of assassins was more clearly expressed in their gameplay.

Cocho7 votes

summoner 3 Just nerf it lol

h5LYF41Lam1 votes

exhaust on supports is not that op,the problem is when other lanes take it.

h5LYF41Lam1 votes

my point,just give it an absurd cd so that its not worth in solo lanes.

THE RlVER KlNG7 votes

I just think it boils down to the fact that in a coordinated team game like League, assassins are the black sheep. They are rewarded and built around killing an isolated target. Since League at its highest levels encourages players to group up and for carries to not push up like madmen (and thus be vulnerable to enemies), assassins are often gimped heavily and are only strong when horrendously overtuned (or have the safety of range in that they are mages too, such as LeBlanc, Ahri, and even someone like Zed who can poke and safely disengage). Their niche is a complete antithesis to how League is played at high levels and they usually just end of being obnoxious lane bullies that get fed and run around murdering everyone or they go even or behind and don't really contribute much to fights. Riot usually thus has to overcompensate their melee damage to extreme damage so that they are pretty garbage if they can't get to a target but pretty unfun when they are actually on you. It also doesn't help that the true assassin class, from Akali to Zed, is one of the smallest in the game. Since their niche is so linear, there is very little reason to pick one when another is clearly the best, which is problem mages to not have and one of the reasons many are dominating mid lane right now despite stuff like Ziggs and Syndra being overbearing.

This leads to Riot to either horrendously over/undertune them in such a way that it leads to bruiser builds being more effective by way of their utility and/or bases (Rengar, Katarina, Ekko, Akali, etc.)....or the opposite, in which they just have to straight up nerf them because they are pubstompers with little in the way of health or practicality to the meta. The Assassin Rework heavily exacerbates this. The four meta assassins right now (Rengar, Kha'zix, Katarina, and LeBlanc) are either better as a bruiser (Rengar), have obscene burst and few weaknesses (Kha'Zix and LeBlanc), or are way out of line in the right hands and remove agency from their opponent (Katarina and LeBlanc).

I sympathize with assassin mains and I get the appeal but I just feel that the class as a whole is just out of place in League balance and design. Combine that with the fact that Divers do their job better anyway and are tanky as well and you have a class that is way out of its depth in the current meta. Skirmishers like Riven, Yasuo, and Fiora generally are just better laners and scale better as well too.

P.S. Ahri is and always has been bullshit. She has the safety and target selection of an assassin and the absurd burst and pick potential of a mage.

RavenMagus7 votes

I actually don't think it's mages that assassins should be trying to compete with anyways.

Their playstyle is closer to a diver's than a mage's, IMO. So if assassins are weak, it's probably because divers are doing the same thing but with more damage and more tankiness and more CC.

EmperorPengu4 votes

All true but the reason assassins are played are for that solo burst. If your team needs someone taken down so they can set up a team fight then you can be the one to sacrifice your life to get that 1 target down. & sometimes you can also get out safely like with zeds shadow or ekkos ult

Lord Tractor Dip1 votes

Very valid point they aren't really meant to be useful in team fights aside from getting the drop on the adc from a flank. It does take more skill than a mage but they have higher skill caps. Take talon, Your job late game is to find those solo picks to put the odds in favor for your teams numbers. Only thing I can really say though is exhaust is a tad op. Assassins take more skill but when pulled of they are godlike. It takes ALOT of time to master one.

EmperorPengu1 votes

Exactly. I play ekko in normals & as long as I don't mess up I become the nightmare of the enemy team. Getting the adc then go flying out of the fight with my ult & speed boost from my 3 hit passive

Lord Tractor Dip1 votes

That's exactly how I feel assassins are supposed be played in team fights. what alot of people don't seem to like is when they cant pull a Katarina and assassinate the whole team.

EmperorPengu1 votes

Well at least Kat has to set up & think before she pulls her 1v5 stuff

Lord Tractor Dip1 votes

Which is good if you ask me.

EmperorPengu1 votes

Yea takes some brain cells to play her now

Rozzeta4 votes

Before the updates, the situation was reversed, and it was impossible for the increasingly skillshot reliant mages to deal with high mobility, specially when it doubled as an easy escape. Unfortunately, the fact is that assassin players refuse to play anything that can't guarantee the ultimate power fantasy of having an assured 1 vs 1 victory. Most impressive is how you analyze a team fight as if you had to go through the tank for your kill to explain the disadvantages, yet at the same time claim you need to go solo in order to flank.

The only thing I give you, is that the current damage heavy state of the game kind of gives an identity crisis to the characters known for their heavy single target damage.

UnboundCreator3 votes

I read like two lines of your post so this comment might be way off topic but doesnt mobility = safety

The Yetii Rider3 votes

Riot stated that a goal of their reworks in the assassin update was to increase skill floor to help fulfill the fantasy assassin players have of outplays - their champions need to be more difficult to play in order to help boost their satisfaction when they actually get kills.

Mage mains don't care about that shit. So...there's no problem here?

ItzZeyro2 votes

Ahri Akali ranged mages that are mobile. nice waveclear too. EDIT I MEANT Leblanc NOT AKALI LOL

paisy2 votes

Akali "Ranged mage" LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

ItzZeyro2 votes

meant leblanc oops

doiminat0r36001 votes

Akali is melee. Her range is abilities but her attacks are melee.

ItzZeyro1 votes

yea i edited mb lol

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Ahri is a mobile Burst Mage, but even squishier than most squishies.

ItzZeyro2 votes

squisher than most squishes doesnt matter, and she is a mage assassin hybrid

NineTailedMystic1 votes

She is a primary Burst/Kite Mage since 5.2.

doiminat0r36002 votes

The thing about the "mobility vs range" argument is that these ranged abilities are most commonly skillshots. If they miss it, they're screwed. Meanwhile melee's abilties are either large AOE or point and click.

MissingKayo3 votes

No, they really aren't screwed. And most of their abilities are large AoE too, so it's sort of hard to not miss. And multiple mages have point and click. Most melees don't really have any large AoE.

And if they miss, they just wait and try again. No problem. They are still at a safe distance so they just wait for their cooldowns to be off.

doiminat0r36002 votes

Melees with a damaging AOE ability: Akali Amumu Blitzcrank Braum Chogath Darius Diana DrMundo Evelynn Fiora Fizz Galio Gangplank Garen Gnar Gragas Hecarim Illaoi JarvanIV Jayce Kassadin Leona LeeSin Kled Khazix Malphite Maokai Mordekaiser Nasus Nautilus Nocturne Nunu Poppy Pantheon Rammus RekSai Rengar Rumble Sejuani Shaco Shen Singed Sion Skarner TahmKench Udyr Talon Taric XinZhao MonkeyKing Warwick Vi Velkoz Zed Alistar

Mages with damaging point and click: Ziggs Fiddlesticks Janna Karma Karthus Katarina Ryze Anivia Diana Evelynn Vladimir Ekko

That is significantly less.

Meanwhile:

Melees with point and click targeting damage abilities : Blitzcrank Akali Alistar Evelynn Diana Gangplank Fizz Garen JarvanIV Jax Maokai MasterYi Nautilus Nunu Poppy Yorick Vi

Idk if im forgetting any, but I believe that's the list.

Then mages with an AOE damage ability: Ahri Akali Amumu Anivia Annie AurelionSol Bard Blitzcrank Brand Cassiopeia Diana Ekko Heimerdinger Fizz Fiddlesticks Ezreal Janna Karma Karthus Kassadin Katarina Lux Lulu Lissandra Leona Leblanc Kennen Nunu Nidalee Nautilus Morgana Nami Mordekaiser Maokai Malzahar Malphite Orianna Rumble Taliyah TahmKench Swain Soraka Sona Singed Shaco Teemo Taric Thresh Viktor Vladimir Veigar Velkoz Udyr Zac Zilean Ziggs Zyra TwistedFate

I believe that is all.

As you can see, there are quite a few melees that have an AOE damage ability as well as significantly less mages with a point and click than without it. I went ahead and did all 4 (melees with AOE/target ability and mages with AOE/target ability)

Quite a few...

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

Ziggs has no point and click ability unless you're counting his passive, which is an auto attack enhancer.

doiminat0r36001 votes

I am counting it as it is a damaging ability modifier

Notice any other issues? I'm 95% confident I got them all.

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