If I had a dollar for every time ranged took nice things away from melee...

MissingKayo·Feb 12, 2017·109 votes·4,349 views

Maybe I could bribe Riot into make better decisions for once.

100 Comments

Ariel the CruelFeb 12, 201745 votes

Is that a new on-hit effect I see? Would be a shame if it. . .

Ezreal Got nerfed.

TyrekGoldenspearFeb 12, 20175 votes

Ezreal just has that special talent. It's his way of staying in the spotlight. :P

LordGeovanniFeb 14, 20171 votes

dont you mean he breaks the item (breaks it and literally breaks it so it loses something and gets nerfed) so he can call it an artifact and put it in a museum

WiegrafOfValorFeb 12, 201725 votes

item 3147 = Should be Melee Only item 3814 = Should be Melee Only item 3142 = Should be Melee Only item 3156 = Should be Melee Only item 3053 = Should be Melee Only item 3071 = Should be Melee Only item 3153 = Should be Melee Only item 3025 = Should be Melee Only item 3022 = Should be Melee Only

And then Riot should stop being lazy and just make items aimed for Ranged AD champions not reliant on AA.

Ezreal Varus Jhin Corki Jayce Lucian Gnar

JihyobdaFeb 12, 20172 votes

It's not only that, these are just better items even for aa based ad ranged, i'm rushing ghostblade on Ashe, Jinx, tristana ... It's way better than the crit items as a rush item, and if i don't do it I'm irrelevant until 30 mins

TruelyTrueTruethFeb 12, 20171 votes

ghostblade on ashe? do you have dyslexia? why would you do that? so much better items

LankPantsFeb 12, 20179 votes

do you have dyslexia?

Dyslexia: a general term for disorders that involve difficulty in learning to read or interpret words, letters, and other symbols, but that do not affect general intelligence.

How exactly would this affect your decision making in buying a Ghostblade on Ashe?

iamthegoatofwarFeb 12, 20171 votes

I'm not defending this toxic pos at all, but maybe he can't really read what ghostblade does?

VerdadeFeb 12, 20172 votes

I don't see why you think ghostblade sucks on Ashe. She can utilise all of its stats, in fact she benefits greatly from raw AD and MS, while lethality affects 95% of her damage. Sure, she can use other items but don't be so close-minded.

Im pretty sure you could try to play lethality poke/disengage ashe, focusing on her W. W has 1200 range, less than 3s CD with some CDR. Add the fact it applies 60% slow and you have extremely obnoxious champion.

In fact, assassin-ish build would benefit her GREATLY. Increased OOC movement speed works very well with her R and E for roaming/making picks. item 3142 's active would make kiting/engaging/disengaging MUCH safer and easier. item 3147 could be valueable to counter wards and further enhance her ability to roam. item 3814 would make her even safer and harder to engage on. She wouldn't be your main damage source, but DAMN THAT UTILITY.

Of course it would need some meta shifts, but this could be a thing in future.

iamthegoatofwarFeb 13, 20171 votes

I'm not the one who said it sucks man...I simply said that dyslexia could cause them not to be able to read what ghost blade really does.

JihyobdaFeb 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't see why you think ghostblade sucks on Ashe. She can utilise all of its stats, in fact she benefits greatly from raw AD and MS, while lethality affects 95% of her damage. Sure, she can use other items but don't be so close-minded.

Im pretty sure you could try to play lethality poke/disengage ashe, focusing on her W. W has 1200 range, less than 3s CD with some CDR. Add the fact it applies 60% slow and you have extremely obnoxious champion.

In fact, assassin-ish build would benefit her GREATLY. Increased OOC movement speed works very well with her R and E for roaming/making picks. 's active would make kiting/engaging/disengaging MUCH safer and easier. could be valueable to counter wards and further enhance her ability to roam. would make her even safer and harder to engage on. She wouldn't be your main damage source, but DAMN THAT UTILITY.

Of course it would need some meta shifts, but this could be a thing in future.

Ty for explains man, but usually i just pick ghostblade into crit

CatastropFeb 12, 201723 votes

{quoted}

= Should be Melee Only

I'm sorry, but BotrK is designed and meant to be a Marksman item, why you feel it should be melee only is beyond my comprehension.

KGB watching UFeb 12, 20179 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry, but BotrK is designed and meant to be a Marksman item, why you feel it should be melee only is beyond my comprehension.

Bro, it's a sword, how could a sword be a ranged item?

yoshi2790Feb 12, 20178 votes

Caitlyn places mini versions of the swords on her bullets, so the bullets cut when they hit.

Guyy FieriFeb 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=KGB watching U,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AigsuViY,comment-id=000300010001,timestamp=2017-02-12T13:02:50.074+0000)

Bro, it's a sword, how could a sword be a ranged item?

Infinity Edge?? Statik Shiv?? Merc Scimitar?? Essence Reaver?? ...so many marksman based items that are, in fact, blades or swords...yet no one is saying IE or Essence Reaver should be melee only.

Just because Bork is a blade doesn't mean it isn't a marksman item

BavalFeb 13, 20172 votes

dude. it gives a heal and steals move speed. Its obviously designed for bruisers to close the gap, not even counting that its a sword.

SpârkyFeb 20, 20171 votes

Or it gives adc's like kalista and ezreal some self peel. Sorry for posting on this old post just saw this.

WiegrafOfValorFeb 12, 20174 votes

I need to tell this to every adc main in the boards?

Ok, so you're new here, listen BoRK was created for bruisers and Fighter to catch targets with mobility and deal with tanks, the item was made with Udyr MasterYi Renekton Tryndamere JarvanIV in mind, but the fact that Riot balance team doesn't think before they do something, they didn't realise AS + AD + Slow + %HP per AA, was everything an ADC wants, plus they didn't had the Melee Only mechanic back then.

So yeah, you're wrong and they need to update their items in order to balance their game correctly.

#AND DON'T BE UNREASONABLE, RIOT CAN PROBABLE MAKE AN SIMILAR ITEM FOR RANGED AD CHAMPIONS. THEY WOULDN'T LEAVE ADC THAT BUILD IT AS CORE ITEM WITHOUT A REPLACEMENT, YOUR STATEMENT IS COMPLETLY RET.. UNREASONABLE!

SkorchFeb 12, 20174 votes

Riot would absolutely fuck over an item and not compensate, where have you been

item 3116 Vladimir Fiddlesticks Yeah vlad may finally be getting buffs, but rylais got nerfed a while ago. And Vlad and Fiddle werent even strong when it was.

LordGeovanniFeb 14, 20171 votes

Vlad and fiddle are plenty strong. What you mean is that Vlad and fiddle werent in the top tier mages when it got nerfed.

SkorchFeb 14, 20171 votes

Please for all that is holy tell me you arent serious

LordGeovanniFeb 14, 20171 votes

if its not broken its trash thats the mentality of most league players primarily players who play 'higher skill cap' classes where they have lower health so in theory they are squishy but are in such safe positions with multiple ways to avoid damage and still be effective from range or in a split second. compared to people who are useless from far range and have to walk up while tanking damage but get nerfed any time when they do this effectively.

SkorchFeb 14, 20171 votes

Okay that was hard to piece together but i think essentially you are saying that "Lower stat but safer champions people call bad cause on paper they look bad but they didnt take into account how safe they are"

And i agree Vlad is plenty safe and Fiddle E spam is annoying. But these 2 mages really liked rylais, and were sitting around 50-49% when it got nerfed (actually i think even lower) While they may be safe, bad is bad. Vlad for the longest time (i dont know what he is now) was sitting at a 43% winrate. I dont care how safe or difficult he is, 43% is getting to the point where if you pick him you have a DIRECT disadvantage.

LordGeovanniFeb 14, 20171 votes

melee champions need the ms active far more than adcs. also i think it was designed for melee champions and was recently redesigned for marksmen in the past 2-3 seasons because defenses got worse so melee characters had to build more defenses t just to stay alive and had no space of it anymore.

Asayake 5150glowFeb 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

= Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only

And then Riot should stop being lazy and just make items aimed for Ranged AD champions not reliant on AA.

I don't like item 3022 being melee only, it's part of my core when I play Kindred

WiegrafOfValorFeb 12, 20173 votes

I know, that you, a player that abuse the item wouldn't want it to become melee only, but now think for a second. Your champion already has more MS than most of melee champs, you have a mobility spell you can use to jump around, helping you kite.. why do you need to aplly slow?

You doesn't

Asayake 5150glowFeb 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I know, that you, a player that abuse the item wouldn't want it to become melee only, but now think for a second. Your champion already has more MS than most of melee champs, you have a mobility spell you can use to jump around, helping you kite.. why do you need to aplly slow?

You doesn't

I don't.

I need the health.

VeltoxFeb 13, 20172 votes

And Kindred needs a rework.

3TWarriorFeb 12, 20173 votes

exactly...it's not like it's difficult to make items melee or ranged only... it would actually only take like 3 lines of code and whatever they copy and paste it into

if items are valuable for the stats, then they are still useful, but becoming...necessary by just sheer overpowered negligence? that's just wrong

Guyy FieriFeb 12, 20173 votes

{quoted}

= Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only

And then Riot should stop being lazy and just make items aimed for Ranged AD champions not reliant on AA.

Gnar not reliant on auto attacks? Hello? Pretty much all he has as mini is Auto-attacks (yes he has boomerang but you will never win a fight using just boomerang)

WiegrafOfValorFeb 12, 20171 votes

#NOT RELIANT

I didn't say they don't AA at all, they obviously AA their targets, hell even mages AA their targets, what I'm saying is that these champions have other tools they use more often than AA, and they rely in their skills more than in their AA.

Guyy FieriFeb 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

#NOT RELIANT

I didn't say they don't AA at all, they obviously AA their targets, hell even mages AA their targets, what I'm saying is that these champions have other tools they use more often than AA, and they rely in their skills more than in their AA.

Except that's not true for Gnar at all...mega Gnar? Sure. But his melee not ranged...mini Gnar will never win a fight if he only uses his boomerang. He is incredibly reliant on auto attacks

CitadelOfIceFeb 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

= Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only = Should be Melee Only

And then Riot should stop being lazy and just make items aimed for Ranged AD champions not reliant on AA.

Maybe not BORK, it is mostly giving marksmen stats. Maw, what eves, the ADC's never build the damn thing when they should. Half of them don't even know what the passive is they just copy and LCS player.

LorinchiFeb 12, 20172 votes

Urgot item 3071 ?

HawkefireFeb 13, 20171 votes

Agreed with everything except for item 3153 , although I wouldn't be opposed to giving reduced power for ranged.

TreyhovaFeb 13, 20171 votes

item 3812 =Ranged Only item 3508 =Ranged Only item 3033 =Ranged Only item 3036 =Ranged Only item 3031 =Ranged Only item 3046 =Ranged Only =Ranged Only item 3087 =Ranged Only item 3072 =Ranged Only

MissingKayoFeb 13, 20171 votes

Learn the game before you make such a nonsensical post.

TreyhovaFeb 13, 20171 votes

I know the game, the post is meant to be nonsensical, because him arbitrarily making items melee only doesn't change the fact that its a dumb idea. It also doesn't change the fact that some items, mostly lifesteal items but crit also, have been problematic to balance on melee champions, a point the OP was trying to make in his lethality argument, and ranged users abusing it.

MissingKayoFeb 13, 20171 votes

Except there's good justifications to making those items melee-only. There isn't for making the items you listed ranged-only.

TreyhovaFeb 13, 20171 votes

item 3072 has been nerfed many times to make sure that bruisers such a Yasuo, Riven, and Tryndamere don't abuse it. Armor % pen items have seen abuse from assassins. Tryndamere and Yasuo are constantly bitched about due to their use of crit. There are plenty of instances of items typically seen as "ranged" being used on melee champions, and that item receiving a nerf as a result, and you blatantly refuse to acknowledge any of those instances.

Also, what good justifications do you have for some of these items? item 3025 is used by exactly one ADC, and even then its an optional choice. item 3156 is rarely build, but needed to survive AP burst. item 3153 is built for tankbusting, something that is usually the job of the ADC, but others can take.

Very Hard EngageFeb 12, 201716 votes

if i had a dollar for every point of armor i've lost...

id have enough money to buy a new computer.... at least a toaster, maybe a GFX card.

cleaver was never meant to be 1 damage item, oh look im a carry now.

Nidalee SO NYAAAFeb 12, 201711 votes

If I had dollar every time a board member thought they good do better job then a rioter I would be buy all the skins

WiegrafOfValorFeb 12, 20172 votes

Feedback from players are what help shape the balance of a game, since developers spend more time playing in "fake" builds of the game, probable 2 or 3 steps ahead of PBE patch and for a limited amount of time per day, they lost touch of what currently are breaking the balance on live patch. Most of the devs doesn't go home and play LOL all night, they probable hate seeing LOL and doesn't have it even install in their personal computers.

So yes, most of the time playerbase knows more about the state of the game than the devs, they only have numbers and reports, not much experience themselves. I'm sure Riot has some workers playing on live server to provide feedback, but still a small sample with a short gap in skill, while players have huge gap in skill and are a major sample.

LeetriFeb 12, 20173 votes

Most of the Rioters I know of plays the game in their spare time. Why would you work on a game you hate seeing?

TruelyTrueTruethFeb 12, 201710 votes

if i had a dollar for the many times you messed up with your words in that one sentence i would be able to buy a pack of hot chettos

ValyrianBladeFeb 12, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Maybe I could bribe Riot into make better decisions for once.

Ranged doesn't take nice things away from Melees.

Riot makes inherently overpowered items and people complain about Ranged champions abusing them but for some reason okay with melee champions abusing them.

Just because a champion has range doesn't suddenly "break" an item. The item is already broken. Ranged just exposes it more. If an item is broken on a ranged champion, it's still OP on melee champions, people just tend to say that the melee champion is playing well, etc... I'm sorry, but the ranged champion is playing well too.

This Edge of Night madness for example. A 10 sec spellshield on that short of a cooldown? That's broken. It has NOTHING to do with ranged champions. Melee champions make better use of it than ranged champions do.

Let me repeat that: Melee champions make better use of it than ranged champions do.

EVERY item that has ever been nerfed because the boards has circle-jerked about ranged champions avoiding it, melee champions have made BETTER USE OF.

To explain for this example since no one ever seems to understand it: Melee champions WERE ALREADY BALANCED before Edge of Night became a thing / got buffs. There's NO DENYING that. They win games still, they get picked still. So, what is more beneficial? A spell shield on a champion who is in point blank range to do what they're designed to do, or on a champion who is at a distance they can dodge from?

It's completely OBVIOUS that the melee champion benefits more from the item. The ranged champion could have dodged your skillshot anyways and outplayed you. The spellshield just makes it safer for them. The melee champion would not have dodged the spell, and the shield made the counterplay to them (using some form of CC to be able to kite them) non-existant.

Same goes for every other item that has been "nerfed" because of "ranged abuse". Steraks was better on melees, of course it scales with your health which melees have more of and build more of. It also scales with base stats which melees get more of.

It's not the fault of ranged champions. Ranged champions only start building items designed for melees because the item design is over the top OP. There's nothing else to it. Melee-oriented itemization is so many miles better than ranged itemization that ranged champions start buying items designed for melees. The items are themselves broken. It has nothing to do with the ranged champions.

MissingKayoFeb 12, 20171 votes

Entirely 100% wrong.

ValyrianBladeFeb 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Entirely 100% wrong.

Makes logical arguments to his point.

Counter-argument: you're wrong.

Pretty much the only way you can ever know for sure you're right, is when the only thing someone else can say in response is that you're wrong.

MissingKayoFeb 12, 20171 votes

Range is a huge benefit that can't be bought outside of RFC. Ranged can kite easily. Melees have to get into close distance to actually proc whatever damage they buy, hence, more risk. Ranged champions have a history of abusing items, especially ones not meant for them.

Edge of Night is overloaded in general.

Incorrect again entirely. Ranged have always abused those items better. Those items also got nerfed solely because of the ranged.

Edge of Night comparison is also wrong again because range gives range benefit while keeping spellshield which means less likely to break it.

Sterak was good on melees. But ranged were good on it to. They weren't supposed to be. So it got gutted.

Wrong. Ezreal abused just about every Sheen item ever. Marksmen and ranged all abused Sterak's. They almost all abuse Lethality now.

When Lethality was lower, it was garbage on the assassins it was meant for. But ranged still abused it better because they could proc it from range. When it's high like now, Assassins are broken, but ranged are even more broken again because of range benefit and a stat they're not supposed to have.

Shoo shoo. I couldn't be assed to waste time on you before, but I figured I might as well entertain you so I get some humor out of educating you.