why is lux so hard to win against?

MunchCrunchLunch·Feb 3, 2016·84 votes·8,328 views

am not saying that shes op or anything but this fucking bitch is so hard to win against. its so damn hard. to win against a good lux.

223 Comments

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 3, 201651 votes

Incredibly safe and incredibly easy to use. As long as the person playing her understands her range she is basically impossible to punish. I mean as far as I know Talon is her only bad match up.

Remlap1223Feb 3, 201613 votes

Fizz Zed Yasuo Katarina Kassadin Morgana

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 3, 201616 votes

Champion.gg isn't working for me right now, but I'm almost positive Talon is the only midlaner she doesn't win at least 50% of her games against.

Remlap1223Feb 3, 201622 votes

Aight, lemme run this down for you since you seem to be too busy to downvote anyone who disagrees with you.

Fizz: Dodges her snare, can easily lock her down with his slow on his E, and his knockup on his ultimate. She's basically food. Zed: Can easily dodge her snare, and is energy based. Lux is incredibly mana hungry. I don't even need to bring up his safety and assassination potential. Yasuo: Can wind wall her snare and easily close the gap. Is resourceless while Lux is mana hungry.
Katarina: Is resourceless, and while Lux has hard CC, she can't cancel Kat's ultimate. Kasssadin: Is an anti caster with a long range blink on his ultimate. Morgana: Can't be snared when Black Shield is up. Can snare Lux for 1.5x as long as Lux can snare her. Has more reliable waveclear and is nowhere near as mana hungry. Her ultimate is a death sentence for Lux.

But logic is a lost art on the boards, so await this one to get downvoted by you and buried by the hivemind.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 3, 201628 votes

I'm not down voting anybody, I even up voted your post back to 0.

You can make up all the scenarios you want and have them play out as favorably for the champions as you like. But numbers don't lie, your average Lux players win all of those match ups at least 50% of the time. The only champion who's players averagely beat Lux is Talon. That is literally her only bad match up.

charcharmunroFeb 3, 20169 votes

Actually, Galio does alright against her, too. But her other "bad" match-ups are basically an even 50%.

iamleburkFeb 3, 20164 votes

Umm don't go off of win rates buddy. There are plenty of matchups, when played well enough, tip in the other favor. And assassins tend to lower winrates in general because they are hard to play, with talon being an obvious exception to that. Xerath also smacks the shit out of lux imo

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 4, 201613 votes

Any match up can be won if played well enough. A Vlad can beat a fiddlesticks if the fiddle absolutely sucks ass. The whole point of this thread is why is Lux so frustrating to play against. And the answer is because statistically speaking there are not many mid lane match ups that even prove problematic for her. Out side of Talon I can't think of one match up your average Lux player should even be worried about, some one else mentioned Galio but how often will you ever even see that match up.

iamleburkFeb 4, 20161 votes

I didn't say "if the other guy is bad". I said "if you are good". Big difference. For example, at the pro level, Corki is seen to beat lux in lane, because any time she walks up to proc her E-passive, they would place a phosphorous bomb in between, meaning they win the trade in mana and potentially in health.

Xerath imo would shit on Lux normally, because he can outrange her and pokes her out of lane. Pretty much any assassin can beat her post 6, but if the lux knows wave control that isn't definite (and that includes talon). I don't see how Talon would have any better chance against Lux than a Zed or a Fizz would, especially a fizz. Imo if it's against Fizz you have to keep poking with E+Passive, because if you Q too early they can all in you and you will lose that trade 90% of the time. Same with the TF matchup though (can poke with Q and auto, should never waste gold card), and Fizz is considered a hard counter to Twisted Fate. And Yasuo is almost a hard counter to lux, his wind wall negates everything but her ult, his E means you shouldn't be hitting ANY Q's, and you have no mobility to dodge his own Q.

How about we talk about the actual matchups here instead of going off of completely skewed statistics.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 4, 201616 votes

"How about we talk about the actual matchups here instead of going off of completely skewed statistics."

Because stats tell a better story than made up scenarios. You can say that all these champions can with the match up if it plays out that way, but we know with the stats we have that they aren't playing out that way.

"I didn't say "if the other guy is bad"

You didn't have to its just that every scenario you dream up, the Lux player is in fact bad. Its hard for Zed and Fizz to just out right assassinate a Lux because of how telegraphed their engages are on top of how safe she already is by default. The only reason Talon does better than most assassins against her is because he has a much better surprise factor.

iamleburkFeb 4, 20161 votes

If you're using shitty stats then no, they don't tell a better story. Win rates have time and time again proven to be shit methods of evaluation. Heimer and Udyr have pretty high winrates too, guess we should start nerfing them because they must be absolutely broken!!

No, it doesn't matter how predictable the assassination is if her Q is down or if she is oom. And just surviving lane with most of those champs means you now have the advantage. That is the whole point. Her E is reliable poke but with high mana cost, and her Q is very unreliable and also very easy to dodge, especially if you use any of the above mentioned champions.

A good lux will fuck talon just as much as she would fuck Zed im pretty sure.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 4, 201613 votes

Heimer and Udyr aren't some of the most picked champions in the game. Lux has a way higher pick rate than those two will also boasting a high win rate. Because she isn't niche like they are, she can be picked confidently in just about nay match up which is why she is picked all the time.

And the stats are only "shitty" because they don't agree with you. If it was as easy to engage on lux with the champion you mentioned they wouldn't lose more than half their games against her.

"It easy to engage on her with her Q down" You mean the one with an incredibly low cool down and 110 range.

iamleburkFeb 4, 20163 votes

Lol okay I guess you're going to believe what you want to believe. Lux is strong right now, but the idea that she wins every matchup is just stupid, especially when you're going off of things like win rates.

Udyr and Lux and Heimer are high because they are easy as fuck to play. Talon is similar, but he is also played mostly by hardcore mains. You're either extremely biased or have never taken a statistics course, because only going off of one stat, one that has proven to be unreliable innumerable times, is at best misleading and at worst pure idiocy.

Yea, her Q as a low CD and a high range, but if you get hit by a max range Q in lane you're fucking up big time. But her cooldown is ample time for a fizz or Zed or even kassadin to 100-0 her. I love how this sub goes from complaining about how hard it is to hit a cassio ult to thinking Q is basically point and click. And how winrates are a VERY important until we start talking about the board's most hated champions, then they are back to being the extremely unreliable stats they are.

But of course, the only reason I don't use those stats is because apparently because they don't agree with me. No other reason. Can't have anything to do with the actual legitimacy of the statistic. That's like using CSPM to rate a support player.

I realized win rates were shit when i looked at Zyra's mid win rates and saw Fizz as her best matchup. I was like level 12 at that point. Idk how you've managed to still think their relevant.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 4, 201613 votes

"Udyr and Lux and Heimer are high because they are easy as fuck to play. Talon is similar, but he is also played mostly by hardcore mains. You're either extremely biased or have never taken a statistics course, because only going off of one stat, one that has proven to be unreliable innumerable times, is at best misleading and at worst pure idiocy. "

I'm not going off of one stat I'm going off of two.

Lux has higher win rate than Talon with five times his pick rate. Higher win rate than Heimer with six times the play rate. And a lower win rate than Udyr with almost triple his play rate.

This means that while Talon and the others are only played by "hardcore mains" they still aren't performing as well as people who just lock in Lux because she is strong. And if those champions had the pick rate Lux currently does they wouldn't have as close to that win rate because they don't just fit any team comp.

Her support rating is separated from her mid rating so IDK why you even brought that up. Once again numbers don't lie, make up however you think those match ups should be going. But at the end of the day when the data is recorded your average Lux is coming out on top of those match ups more than she is failing to them.

Never said she wins every match, just more than she loses.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 4, 201610 votes

"You're stats are too generalized and too variable based on player perception and champion difficulty. Players see her played in LCS and see she's popular, and so she's flocked to by all the sheep, except she's actually easy enough for the average plat+ to perform well on. "

That's the whole point of this thread, and why she wins the match ups like she does. You don't need to know the specifics of every laning phase that takes place. Just know that the team with Lux wins more often.

And I don't know why your so hell bent on believing all these counter to her are bullet proof. Your average player can pick Lux into one of these match ups and expect to do well, Your average player can't pick on of these counters into Lux and expect the same results.

That's why she is frustrating, Lux players don't give a fuck about those counters because over half the time they don't even work out.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 4, 20167 votes

" but in reality any plat+ with a single game in the matchup, as or against lux, would have a pretty good idea of how it plays out"

Champion.gg gets its stats from plat+ I don't know what else to tell you. It only take into consideration the highest tier of play, that why its so often sited for balance threads. Lux is doing just fine in all of her match ups in plat+ and it looks like right about now any match up she is in is a skill match up at best.

Biff ManlyFeb 4, 201613 votes

A high winrate tells me that this champion wins often.

Any complaints with that application?

p0wderdt0astmanFeb 3, 20162 votes

Morgana's black shield has a 20 second cooldown at lv 1 and gets popped pretty easily by just about any attack lux has.

iamleburkFeb 4, 20161 votes

It's not the black shield that wins the matchup, it's tormented soil. whole point of morgana mid is to push like a mad man and force the other guy to farm under turret. Idk if you watch competitive, but this is why Morg was considered a counterpick to Leblanc last year, because of her insane waveclear early. I would say the Q game between the two is more of a skill matchp; while Morg's is harder to hit and slower, it does more damage, is longer, and she has a way of negating it with black shield. So off of skillshots I would put them at even.

p0wderdt0astmanFeb 4, 20163 votes

I guess I just suck at Morgana then. I recently got my ass handed to me by a Lux that just kept sending that evil bubble that travels through space and time to blow up and murder you. Also, I haaaaaaate Leblanc. I can never get a leg up on that wench. The fact that her q is an auto-target and she can teleport over before it actually lands to deal INSANE damage is beyond evil. Such hate. Such unbelievable hate.

ArbiterOfTruthFeb 4, 20168 votes

I just check champion.gg and Lux has greater than 50% winrate against all listed champs. The closest to 50% are against Galio and Gangplank with 50.6% and 50.42% winrate against them respectively.

blfUvZ8YbuFeb 4, 20167 votes

{quoted}

I just check champion.gg and Lux has greater than 50% winrate against all listed champs. The closest to 50% are against Galio and Gangplank with 50.6% and 50.42% winrate against them respectively.

Yes,true.So I want nerfs for her.

IqqiFeb 3, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Incredibly safe and incredibly easy to use. As long as the person playing her understands her range she is basically impossible to punish. I mean as far as I know Talon is her only bad match up.

She only has to worry about assassins and that is after they get 100-0 potential. Even then as long as she doesnt give up a kill early (use her range) and deny CS when possible she cant lose lane.

SaltyKrackaFeb 3, 201629 votes

Because she's OP.

blfUvZ8YbuFeb 3, 201622 votes

{quoted}

Because she's OP.

Be careful! Lux mains downvote you.

PennsFeb 3, 201617 votes

How can Lux be op when all AP items are crap and AD champs are unbeatable gods?

RookPusherFeb 3, 201611 votes

{quoted}

How can Lux be op when all AP items are crap and AD champs are unbeatable gods?

In case someone didn't answer you, because he can control a map really well, has great poke, and strong damage. And given that she's AP, unless you're building health, she eats you.

Blumpkin NationFeb 3, 201611 votes

She's not over-powered by any means. It's the fact that Season 6 has made a majority of champions cancerous now due to the new masteries.

It made choices for a utility mage with burst damage like Lux more appealing because of her utility/damage which wasn't an issue until S6 and it's overpowered masteries breaking the game.

Honestly, you put Vlad in front of her and mid-late game he will shit all over her because of his entire troll kit.

SaltyKrackaFeb 4, 20164 votes

She was overpowered before Season 6 ever came along.

Blumpkin NationFeb 4, 201611 votes

She was not overpowered lol. She was in a really good state. Riot gave her a few QoL buffs.

The only thing she needs take back is the buff they gave her Q. The snare shouldn't deal full damage/duration to the secondary target. It should be put back to the way it was.

Everything else is fine. Her ult needs to be on a shorter cool down because that's the whole point of her after laning phase. Sniping.

Photos of GhostsFeb 4, 201610 votes

"oh hey let' make her almost undodgeable E actually undodgeable". Ffs, now it's like it had a delay to appear instead of a travel time. The only person that cares about the difference is douchy Yasuo who can stop it.

All Day Tay TayFeb 3, 201621 votes

one thing a lot of people underestimate is her passive. it counts as a seperate damage source, so her e, auto (and passive proc) count as 3 hits so it procs thunderlords. 1 ability and an auto. support is strong too cuz the same combo gives all 3 of spellthief. her e being so fast and so large means you have to predict her rather than react to her. her q e r combo can insta most squishies. her ult having such long range, damage and on such a low cd makes that annoying too. Source: i mained lux for a looooooooooong time

Vistha KaiFeb 3, 201619 votes

Because at this point Lucent Singularity could be changed into unit-targeted ability and nobody would see a difference.

Akali is SO HOTFeb 3, 201612 votes

Because all of her abilities are targeted nukes

DeathBurstFeb 3, 20167 votes

Lol? I don't think this word means what you think it means. None of her spell is targeted, they are all AoE skillshots.

Akali is SO HOTFeb 3, 201629 votes

They're impossible to miss unless your Bronze

Mecha MaIphiteFeb 3, 201616 votes

You will land them even if you're bronze, because your opponents will walk into them.

Actually xPekeFeb 3, 20166 votes

Yes, her E is so hard to land. Such worthy to have the name of "skillshot"

JavelinJoeFeb 3, 201610 votes

The hard part is when she goes support. The new mysteries cover her weaknesses in that role now, and with current meta being burst damage for ADCs, she almost always is able to win trades in the bot lane.

Only Play DariusFeb 3, 20168 votes

Because she has a very safe laning phase, which is important in this early game meta. She can farm under turret all game and you can't push her in for too long or else you get ganked since wards got removed.

MansanaFeb 4, 20168 votes

I wouldn't be surprised either, ever since the numerous buffs she received a while back.

V5.17: Light Binding (Q)

Mana cost reduced to 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 from 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90.
Secondary target will now receive full damage and snare duration.

V5.12: Prismatic Barrier (W)

NEW EFFECT: Lux now gains her initial shield instantaneously instead of after the 0.25 second cast time.

Lucent Singularity (E)

Slow zone radius increased to 350 from 300.
NEW EFFECT: Can now be activated while in-flight to immediately detonate upon arrival.

RookPusherFeb 3, 20167 votes

She's insane as support. Primarily because she's supposed to be exposed if she overextends or misses something, except you can't really go in on her because she's got something else up AND an ADC ready to melt your face if you go after her.

Personally, I think she needs a nerf, but I'm not that invested in the argument. If I am against her, it's basically a war of attrition.

3ofGot40veFeb 3, 20166 votes

I think if they lowered the range on her q or the damage coming from her passive she would be better.

Deadly MittensFeb 3, 201612 votes

Actually, pushing her early damage from her singularity to her passive could push her into trade range more.

FistOfSharkieshaFeb 4, 20166 votes

Pretty much undodgeable poke until you get T2 boots, sitting in a lane where she can pretty much farm the entire lane from under turret with her E, tons of utility, etc etc.

Remlap1223Feb 3, 20165 votes

Thunderlord's kinda pushed her over the edge. Back when they buffed her end of Season 5 she became actually strong, but now she's actually OP because she's bursting too much to early, which allows her to snowball crazy hard, since she's safe enough to buy Mejai's.

Sire HippingtonFeb 4, 20168 votes

actually, the buffs put her over the edge, her winrate befor preseason actually was even higher than it is now.

PiVoRxFeb 4, 20164 votes

The main issue i see with lux is her laughable cd on ult. Every lux i meet in diamond randomly shots an ult before fight "maybe i will hit something" and when the fight is almost over she got it up again to finish someone off. Bullshit.