Evelynn: The Assassin With No Gap Closer

The Eve of Night·Oct 19, 2017·67 votes·4,508 views

The title says it all. When you take a look at every assassin in this game, you begin to work out a formula these champions share for the most part. A skillshot or some form of ranged poke or cc, a gap closer, a blink or dash to help close the distantce towards the target, and the nuke or assassination tool. Evelynn has the skillshot in the form of her Q (which currently does no damage to anything thats not a jungle monster by the way), the assassination tool (her e, which does a fair amount of damage), but no gap closer. She has perma stealth after six, but the stealth detection range has been increased drastically for some reason (as if making me wait till 6 to use my stealth wasn't already a good enough nerf), my enemies can see me coming much earlier now and I can't chase anyone down because not only don't I have my old W movement speed boost, you actually nerfed her base movement speed from 340 to 335. So, i ask you, how am I suppose to get on to anyone? Proc W? When its charging up they just walk away and I am currently too slow to give chase and my Q's range it actually not that great. Its not like my Q has Nidalee spear range or Lee Sin Q range. The empowered E is suppose to act as some form of gap closer but the range is pitiful, its basically an auto attack, which makes no sense consiering her lashers look to be twice the length of her entire body. I just don't get it, it doesn't make any sense.

I see that on the PBE you increased the damage on her Q and her E but thats not the problem. The problem is that I have to blow flash during later teamfights most of the time to close the gap on a target where as others assassins have the tools they need to get to their target ingrained into their kit. Maybe if you returned her stealth detection range to its pre-reworked state and bumped up her movement speed to 340 again, then MAYBE that would help but currently Evelynn is just the worst assassin in this game. What kind of assassin can't get the jump on a target? They even know I'm coming most of the time because of the ridiculously long charge time I have on my W. Not only that, my Ult CD is currently more than 2 minutes. That is basically her only form of gap close/escape. Without it, don't even think about trying to fight anyone unless you're fed. You said at the beginning of this rework that you were trying to turn Evelynn into less of a feast or faminine champ but these changes just exascperated the issues. I ask rioters, are you're aware of these issues and are you going to fix them any time in the future? Or are you going to leave her in an unplayable state like you did those years ago? When picking Evelynn could actually get you banned and you stated as such?

188 Comments

PennsOct 19, 201733 votes

Her Q is kind of her gap closer + the fact that she has stealth. Problem is that she can barely even stay in Q range without the enemy being able to see her.

######meanwhile Twitch caugh

Teridax68Oct 20, 20173 votes

Her detection range might be the issue here. I think it would be worth exploring a version of Eve that didn't require more dashes or blinks to succeed (she currently has one dash and one blink, though one's super-weak and the other's on a very long cooldown), and the answer might just be to either lower the detection range on her Camouflage or just upgrade it to full invisibility. There are already many gates in place to her power, namely her back-loaded damage and her complete lack of stealth during most of the laning phase, so whichever reasons she had to require a detection range pre-rework don't really seem to apply anymore.

FiresasameOct 20, 20173 votes

^^^^^ That And the fact that her charm reveals what direction she is...

Taliyah RocksOct 19, 201710 votes

She needs to have her movement speed buff moved on her W, so when she casts it, she moves faster for a few seconds. She'd still alert enemies of her presence and would still have to wait to proc the charm, but at least she'd be able to get close to squishies. It's useless to have it on her E when you're getting kited to oblivion before getting in range to use it.

Baron of BreadOct 19, 20173 votes

I think it would be better if you got the speed boost when the W was finished charging. That way you could pounce right as the charm is ready to go.

McsquzzyOct 19, 20171 votes

This is actually a decent idea kinda like ahri's speed buff when q is out

AzadetheOct 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

This is actually a decent idea kinda like ahri's speed buff when q is out

Except Ahri is a better assassin than Eve in every way, because her damage is half in her based skill damage, low cooldowns, no conditions, and she can actually build TANK and still pull 50k damage games. (I've built Abyssal Mask + Spirit Visage + Mercurial boots Ahri and THEN AP, and managed 57k in a single game in ranked. Eve has 55 base damage Q and 600 AP adds +190. Tank does no damage)

LostFr0stOct 19, 20178 votes

Se has 2 gapclosers + camouflage to get close.

Empowered E and backwards ult are the gapclosers. They are shown in the champ spotlight vid.

ThunderSkelettOct 19, 201720 votes

OH you think you can still kill a adc late game without your ult when you use it as a gap closer?

LostFr0stOct 19, 20175 votes

I mean, the Op said she had no gapclosers... so I added Ult there. Just use E obviously...

Also don't need ult to kill the AD. Just proc charm for the shred and they're either chunked or dead.

Lady HammerlockOct 19, 20178 votes

{quoted}

I mean, the Op said she had no gapclosers... so I added Ult there. Just use E obviously...

Also don't need ult to kill the AD. Just proc charm for the shred and they're either chunked or dead.

Her E is practically has a melee auto attacks worth of range, to be precise, it's 250 units

which is pitiful

LostFr0stOct 19, 20171 votes

What would you trade for the increased E range then? Can't just babyrage for increased range and not accept a nerf elsewhere.

Have you had the chance to try her on the new runes?

ElikainOct 19, 20174 votes

Well, if she's weak right now, there's no point to trade a buff on her E and accept a nerf somewhere else. If we're considering buffing her, there's no need to cut power somewhere else if the common agreement is that she needs to be straight buffed in some areas.

LostFr0stOct 19, 20171 votes

On the contrary, a buff to her E range in particular would be huge.

Her passive resets the E and empowers it, so increasing the range on E overall would be a massive buff.

Idk why people are downplaying it.

ElikainOct 19, 20173 votes

Her E range getting increased would be something minor then, just to make it longer than a melee attack. I wouldn't want her to have a reliable gap closer, considering that her full Allure getting procced charms the target. That would be, in my opinion, too much of a kill potential considering she's a perma stealth champion.

LostFr0stOct 19, 20171 votes

Is there not another option though?

Perhaps we could leave the range the same but do something that has been brought up on the Eve subreddit: move the MS steroid elsewhere.

Either way we need to see her on Runes Reforged live first.

ElikainOct 19, 20171 votes

Well, i don't know where the MS can be moved. I guess her Q sounds like an ideal spell because it inherently has longer skillshot range and would allow you to get closer while you shoot your spikes underneath your enemy, which would also allow you to get closer for E.

And it would allow you to potentially outrun your pursuers, if you charm an enemy and then hit them with Q skillshot for a slow, which triggers your MS as well. Might be better overall to let Eve move fast like this instead of messing with her ranges that i personally think they're a bit low but still fair.

In all honesty, Eve came at a time where on PBE, players do testing with new runes while we are doing it with old runes. So there's a big difference with what is possible on PBE VS what we can do here. I wouldn't really touch her right now instead of a bit of number adjustments, waiting for preseason to hit.

AzadetheOct 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Well, i don't know where the MS can be moved. I guess her Q sounds like an ideal spell because it inherently has longer skillshot range and would allow you to get closer while you shoot your spikes underneath your enemy, which would also allow you to get closer for E.

And it would allow you to potentially outrun your pursuers, if you charm an enemy and then hit them with Q skillshot for a slow, which triggers your MS as well. Might be better overall to let Eve move fast like this instead of messing with her ranges that i personally think they're a bit low but still fair.

In all honesty, Eve came at a time where on PBE, players do testing with new runes while we are doing it with old runes. So there's a big difference with what is possible on PBE VS what we can do here. I wouldn't really touch her right now instead of a bit of number adjustments, waiting for preseason to hit.

The new runes give her options, but they also give other champs options. Lux and Karma will purely be broken (Karma will have a 4.5 sec CDR on max level Mantra BEFORE her passive, effectively letting her perma ult, and Lux who manages to kill will have a 10 second ult cdr, resulting in more kills to reset it again). There are a ton of combos which will make any benefits Eve gets from runes, "just another example of an okay champ"

MyozthirirnOct 20, 20171 votes

I would trade the entire W spell, for incresed E range.

LostFr0stOct 20, 20171 votes

The Eve playerbase apparently loves the new W, so that's a no go LOL.

AzadetheOct 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The Eve playerbase apparently loves the new W, so that's a no go LOL.

I don't. Quite frankly, Eve's W isn't even used by Pants Are Dragon that much in PBE, other than to charm red/blue/gromp.

It tells people where you are. 2)2.5 sec is plenty of time to ward/retreat out of her range.
Q is a VERY unreliable proc for W, being almost out of range and obstructed by minions 90% of the time.

It's far more feasible to go in with a fast moving E (which can do 20% base + 140, plus sheen proc, which in some cases like an adc is about 80% of their HP), Allure after hit, and then use Q as they run or stay, and then follow with ult if needed. If you charm from point blank, they either have to fight or are almost FORCED to proc charm.

The real challenge is getting Eve to do non Ult kills in high elos. She has no survivability in team fights with good players where she tries to fight, can't really protect a base push when the team dies, etc, unless you build an off meta build with tank items...... which is a horrible idea, since her AP scaling is so high that at feasible AP levels, it makes 80% of her damage total (4 times as powerful as base damage)

I've tried going Lich/Echo/mobis/Protobelt, which turned out viable as a lane pusher when I added a Zzott. But it still sucked vs the team I played it against (Viktor/Sej just erasing). You simply can't go enough tank to make going tank viable without entirely destroying your damage kit. And if you destroy your damage kit, your passive healing does nothing, your E does tiny damage.

Eve's kit has a strong solo presence vs adcs. But, it sucks vs mages in many occasions, and she has no fast answer to tanks (can leave and re-engage 2-3 times, but she simply can't trade, and the time it takes to kill usually results in team reinforcements for the tank you're after).

Ofc.... all other assassins can beat these problems. Her current kit can't.

MyozthirirnOct 20, 20172 votes

I love the concept, the visuals, the idea behind it. But as a real skill that i have to use vs real opponents... it conects arround 20% of the time, often when the target was alredy stuned by a teammate anyways. The rest of the time its an indicator for the enemy that has a chance to slow. So yes, i would rather have a blank slot on my W key and 525 range on E.

The Eve of NightOct 19, 201732 votes

Other assassins don't need to use their execute ults as a form of gap close and as I said before, empowered E is basically auto attack range. That;s not a gap closer.

Elemental LuxOct 19, 20172 votes

I mean Zed does. Yasuo too. Using their ults as gap closers. I know of course with eve you lose your execute. I’m only making a point. :p

Infinite SaughtOct 19, 20178 votes

Yasuo isn't considered an Assassin anymore according to the client. (Which is really weird considering Master Yi is one)

RalanrOct 19, 20174 votes

They both belong in the skirmisher class.

HeimerLmaoOct 19, 20171 votes

I think it was slayers, may be wrong.

RalanrOct 19, 20175 votes

Skirmishers and assassins are slayer subclasses.

Lit CornOct 19, 20174 votes

but zed when he ults for gap closing will also deal dmges ... eve needs to use her execute and escape spell to go in , while not even beeing sure of one shoting the ennemy after , she gets stelath too late so rip early ganks , i mean this champ is pretty bad tbh , bad kit , bad lore , the worst rework so far tbh .

EDIT : oh yeah also , her charm takes FAR too long to charge up !

ElikainOct 19, 20172 votes

Speak for yourself when you talk about Eve's "worst rework". Considering that i quit one-tricking old Eve due to her (at the time) shaky jungle items (Magus, then Runeglaive, then Runic Echos) and a bit of a nerf here and there, new Eve hits every bit of fantasy i expected of Riot to give her.

Her being weak on release isn't a deal breaker and just because she is held back with some odd numbers, it doesn't mean she's not worth your time. If you don't want to play her but you'd rather jump on the bandwagon of "she's weak", be my guest. But at least give something of substance when talking about her problems.

Her Allure is taking a while to charge up because it's a point and click charm effect and it's in line with the Assassin paradigm Riot gave all Assassins - give a bit of a delay before you attempt to blow up your enemy for the sake of counterplay. That being said, Eve's base numbers are a bit weak and outside of the jungle, her Q and W work differently and are, in my opinion, weaker. Her early ganks aren't that good and you just don't want to show your head anywhere on a lane if you aren't level 6 (unless someone's clearly overextending and is easy prey).

General Esdeath Oct 20, 20171 votes

I play her and I feel like she needs some kind of gap closer or allure to charge faster with a smaller detection radius.

ElikainOct 20, 20171 votes

Considering her perma-stealth status, that's something Riot wouldn't do at first. It's just too much of a problem when a champion you can't see at all for eternity, suddenly has a reliable catch tool to engage. Same issue was with old Rengar and his ult, absurd engage range and root bola into 1-shot potential.

Let's not repeat that problem with Eve because i don't want her gutted just after her release.

General Esdeath Oct 20, 20171 votes

Not asking for something like Rengar ult, just something like E with more range if you're in stealth. Rengar's old ult also let him charge 2 or 3 Q's which made it a problem. I feel like the only reason Eve's build path recommends item 3152 is because she can use the active to gap close. But it's awkward because it breaks stealth.

ElikainOct 20, 20171 votes

Protobelt's active deactivates Eve's stealth because it's an "active" Active, where you shoot out damaging pelets in an arc around you. Youmuu's Active, for example, is "passive" where you only gain MS and that doesn't interfere with Twitch's stealth.

The reason why i think Protobelt is in her recommended items is because Riot wanted to leave us as much options as we had to build Eve prior to her rework. She can work as a squishy AP assassin, as an AP tanky DPS dealer and even a Tank - which were all the ways Eve was being played before. You'd build Protobelt on her for the same reason you'd build one on Fizz and Ekko.

At the same time, DMP is also in her recommended items and considering that her job is to strike from the shadows, DMP's proc helps her add more CC to her combo and makes her tanky to survive a scuffle with an AD champion. It also makes her faster, shortening the reaction time the enemy has to react to you getting into the vision range.

I believe i've said this before but Riot is doing her balance under the new Runes while we still have old ones. What we see on Live definitely doesn't reflect her actual balance on PBE, which is going to be her future balance in about a month. We shouldn't jump the gun on this one because i think we can hold off any major Eve buffs for now and keep her in a bit weaker state until the pre-season hits.

She really isn't that terrible and she may need a bit more adjustments. The point is that we don't know yet and clamoring for her buffs now would probably make her over the top under the new rune system.

General Esdeath Oct 21, 20171 votes

I know but that's the thing, it means her E is no longer empowered, taking away from the stealthy assassin kit. It's not that she's terrible, I like her, but I'd rather have longer CD on E in exchange for more range.

ElikainOct 21, 20171 votes

If i understood you correctly, you think that Eve loses her empowered E state if she destealths prematurely (using Protobelt's active). That isn't the case though.

Eve's E is always empowered if her passive Demon Shade activates and can't be un-empowered until expended. Her empowered E doesn't have anything to do with her Camouflage part of her passive, which is the part she gets after level 6.

Eve's E can be empowered from level 1 when her passive triggers. Using Protobelt doesn't have any effect on her empowered E as well. I just checked that in the Practice Tool.

General Esdeath Oct 21, 20171 votes

Well shit, that's at least 1 good thing for her, but I'd prefer more range on E tbh.

ElikainOct 21, 20171 votes

I keep playing Eve bit by bit and i don't really have the same issues i had when i first tried her out. Her Allure is quite fair and it doesn't reveal you, just your direction but not how close you are. And proccing Allure is basically done with Q skillshot, then into E and 3 Qs + ult for execute. Her combo is quite reliable and the more i understand where here ranges lie and how close i need to orbit around the teamfight, the more i understand how i should approach the battle and when and what i need to use first to successfully engage the target.

I don't really like Protobelt, i usually go for more on-hit damage through Lich Bane/ Even with moderate AP, she does quite the burst damage and i'm very pleased with the result. However, she can clean the jungle quite well but lane minions are basically mini Barons in terms of how your Q+3Q + empowered E dash can't even kill them. And no bonuses for minions, only jungle mobs which translates to poor wave clear.

She's basically an Assassin meant to kill people and farm jungle. Lane farm is off limits to her.

General Esdeath Oct 22, 20171 votes

I just think allure should be reduced to 2 instead of 2.5 seconds. Makes clearing camps feel weird.

ElikainOct 22, 20171 votes

Taric's ult is also has a delay of 2.5 seconds which basically ensures his ult isn't a "press ult to win" button. This leaves just enough time for the enemy team to obliterate someone if the intent was to kill, which means Taric casted his ult late.

Same could be said for Eve. Allure being on 2 seconds would mean a bit faster engage pattern and a bit shorter window for the enemy to react to. Basically, the moment you don't see Allure immediately it was cast on you, you're most likely to be CC'd unless you spend flash or dash to get out fast.

I haven't felt like her camp clearing is lagging behind, considering how her Q and Allure actually work for monster camps (60% CD refund for Q, bonus damage and a 3 second charm for W). I could see your point in later game where 2.5 seconds is a bit too long but at that point, you have enough damage to kill camps without the use of Allure. But i could also see your point for objective camps (Baron, Dragon) as they need to be taken down faster.

Maybe shave off .5 seconds of Allure arm time based on her level instead of spell level to make sure that's it's the real late game she gets to charm people faster instead of someone just leveling her W to turn her into a more reliable CC assassin?

So from level 12-16, shave 0.1 seconds off her W which means lvl 16 W arm time is 2 seconds flat? Honestly, i can see this working fine.

The Yetii RiderOct 19, 20174 votes

Evelynn didn't have a gap closer before.

Other assassins (besides Ekko, Rengar and debatably Fizz) don't have hard CC (not counting Diana or Elise here because they're more diverish). You can build Eve as a tank and she works well as a skirmisher. Red Smite and Abyssal Mask to give you plenty of mana to Q.

Unreformed ShacoOct 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQUULtQk,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-19T15:34:41.039+0000)

Evelynn didn't have a gap closer before.

Other assassins (besides Ekko, Rengar and debatably Fizz) don't have hard CC (not counting Diana or Elise here because they're more diverish). You can build Eve as a tank and she works well as a skirmisher. Red Smite and Abyssal Mask to give you plenty of mana to Q.

Diver, but have better burst than entire lineup.

The Yetii RiderOct 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQUULtQk,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-10-19T15:41:17.089+0000)

Diver, but have better burst than entire lineup.

Divers have a lot of Burst. Jarvan IV builds Duskblade for a reason.

Unreformed ShacoOct 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQUULtQk,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T18:19:06.034+0000)

Divers have a lot of Burst. Jarvan IV builds Duskblade for a reason.

Because hes a fucking joke. Ridiculously high scalings.

Everyone abuses that item, it was designed for assassins but every other class is picking it up. They need to make it "coming out of stealth".

RebonackOct 19, 201720 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQUULtQk,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-19T15:34:41.039+0000)

Evelynn didn't have a gap closer before.

Other assassins (besides Ekko, Rengar and debatably Fizz) don't have hard CC (not counting Diana or Elise here because they're more diverish). You can build Eve as a tank and she works well as a skirmisher. Red Smite and Abyssal Mask to give you plenty of mana to Q.

No, but she DID have a massive movespeed boost, higher base movespeed, and a lower detect range.

Auz the RipperOct 19, 20173 votes

and a heavy instant slow with her ult

Lit CornOct 19, 20171 votes

but she had level 1 stealth ( so good counter jungling AND early ganks ) , ms bonus on W , more dmges more consistently ( current Q 0 dmges to champ and not consistent dmges but 3 small spikes and then nothing for a few secs exept ifu use it on jgl camps ) , and her E was great to solo drake for exemple or get some dmges on tanks , she had R to slow , and if she killed someone W would reset again , this with a rylai and it was unescapable . she also had lots of different possible build , she could go ap tank or ad depending the situation right now she needs to rush protobelt otherwise she cant gap close but this doesnt give her enough dmges ...

Right now i build this on eve : item 3009 item 1402 item 3742 item 3025 item 3152 / situational ( usualy phantom dancer tho ) it seems like the only viable build i tried yet .

The Yetii RiderOct 19, 20173 votes

I don't understand why you expect her to be "better". Eve has been horribly unbalanced since pink wards became visible. She was reworked because her kit was broken. The Olaf, Sona and Master Yi reworks all made those champions weaker as well. This isn't new.