>people thinking gnar has any winning matchups

Gigahappytown·Aug 31, 2015·5 votes·1,562 views

http://d1lalstwiwz2br.cloudfront.net/images_users/tiny_mce/lilhopsin/phpoJvWlN.jpeg

he only has 50/50 matchups and losing ones

34 Comments

Kitty ClarissaAug 31, 20152 votes

When gnar can win against garen/ darius/ morde since he can kite them to death in mini form and in mega from he can stun and deal some good damage to them. Thing is mini gnar has no def so he gets easily killed in lane if ganked etc. His only hard counters are really Riven Pantheon Irelia or anyone with a stun + gap closer imo

redniwediSAug 31, 20151 votes

Kiting only works if they chase. If they don't chase all he can do is poke, and since all of them get sustain he either builds full damage, leaving him too squishy mid game, or he can't do anything to them.

That is, of course, ignoring jungle interaction.

Kitty ClarissaSep 1, 20151 votes

True the times i play gnar, i tend to go abit more damage then tank and he is so squishy, even then if you build a FM on him he works quite fine but he is suppose to have a rough early game and a strong late game

GigahappytownSep 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Well considering he has a 51% win rate in Plat+ currently, I'd say he has some very good matchups.

nice shitposting

[{quoted}](name=Flora Aegis Edea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=APc3uG3m,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-31T23:48:15.516+0000)

When gnar can win against garen/ darius/ morde since he can kite them to death in mini form and in mega from he can stun and deal some good damage to them. Thing is mini gnar has no def so he gets easily killed in lane if ganked etc. His only hard counters are really or anyone with a stun + gap closer imo

garen is straight up better than megar gnar in a 1 one on one megar gnar going into darius is a free kill for darius assuming there is not a massive health difference between the two

tries to poke with mini-gnar? range is too short will be grabbed by darius and forced to use hop and still get outtraded garen hide in bushes and control wave and zone gnar and trade him to the point where flash q e r ignite will kill him

gnar has too much counterplay and too weak of a early game he is picked for late and mid not his laning

and if by SOME MIRACLe he gets his combo off darius and garen still have their whole kits that deal way more damage and are way better in sustained fights

darius stomps megar gnar can beat mini-gnar if good garen stomps mini gnar can beat mega gnar if good

{quoted}

False, he is actually quite the overpowering lane opponent in many top lane match ups, if you don't suck with him ofc.

"XDDD ranged aa must be op XDDD"

gnar only beats shitters who don't know how to deal with ranged harrass

i bet you think gnar teemo quinn counter gangplank too

TeemoJenkinsAug 31, 20151 votes

I actually thought he would do well against Fiora... don't know if the Gnar I fought was shit but I absolutely cheese'd him to death.

GigahappytownAug 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I actually thought he would do well against Fiora... don't know if the Gnar I fought was shit but I absolutely cheese'd him to death.

fiora just dodges wallop with Q and blocks his q with w and he has nothing left after that

mini-gnar will just get zoned or die instanstly

CreationFlawAug 31, 20154 votes

mini-gnar will just get zoned or die instanstly

................................... he's ranged with a leap if she engages? Are you just shit

PennsAug 31, 20152 votes

Hes not shit, the word youre looking for is "right" lel

AMYS GRAVESep 1, 20151 votes

Are you just shit

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Baby GhoulSep 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I actually thought he would do well against Fiora... don't know if the Gnar I fought was shit but I absolutely cheese'd him to death.

He does do well against Fiora. The poke against her is insane. Against old Fiora she had such an easy time against him because she was an all-in high DPS champion with tons of damage early game and a strong double gap closer.

Now that it's toned down for more utility and reliability, she can get harassed quite well by him while it's harder for her to do hit and runs. All that being said, I have only seen 2 Gnars that seemed to have any idea what they were doing. The vast majority don't play him correctly, and I assume it's because he has a high skill floor.

I don't know if he does well enough to justify how difficult it is to learn him.

RoundPiplupAug 31, 20151 votes

Gnar hater much?

GigahappytownAug 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Gnar hater much?

When people discuss garen darius and other top laners they list gnar has a counter which is really really funny as out of all the top laner tanks his laning is the worst

Vicarious117Aug 31, 20151 votes

False, he is actually quite the overpowering lane opponent in many top lane match ups, if you don't suck with him ofc.

AMYS GRAVEAug 31, 20151 votes

False, he loses games or goes even in most matchups even at high elo. He may feel strong but still loses. Source:

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=top-matchup&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond

Vicarious117Sep 1, 20151 votes

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but winrates don't dictate a champs effectiveness by 100%.

Gnar has seen those kinds of percentages ever since his Mega Gnar duration was nerfed, it simply means he has a much harder time winning teamfights then someone who is always tanky will. He still easily wins lanes cause little Gnar is a huge bully and really hard to gank, and Mega Gnar can't even be fought most of the time in the early game. But once it comes to teamfighting, if you don't have Mega Gnar you're next to useless, and it's much harder to get then stay in Mega Gnar thus harder to carry through solo Q resulting in lower winrates.

His laning is perfectly fine.

AMYS GRAVESep 1, 20151 votes

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but winrates don't dictate a champs effectiveness by 100%.

While i agree that win rates aren't everything, they can be indicative of many things.

Just to clarify before i go too far. I think Gnar is in a pretty good spot right now. He takes a diverse set of skills to use, and is rewarded for doing so, but if you want lane bully there are better picks out there.

He still easily wins lanes cause little Gnar is a huge bully and really hard to gank,

His bullying isn't anywhere near what most lane bullys can pull off (teemo, vayne, quinn) and he isn't that hard to gank if you come from the right angle and understand his cooldowns.

it's much harder to get then stay in Mega Gnar

It actually isn't hard to maintain 90-95 fury to keep yourself close to mega gnaring out and then popping it when you need to. Even when he isn't mega gnar he isn't useless by any means, he just has to transform his playstyle to one of dps rather than front line tank. This makes his teamfighting difficult as he will need to consider positioning from different perspectives (fighter tank front liner to ADC like back liner) and most people aren't used to that. But we digress....

So if i understand your arguments (correct me if i'm wrong) he's a win lane - lose game champion.

Do you have any statistics to back that claim up? source? His winrates over time are lowest at 20 min indicating that his laning phase is the worst part of his game. Your arguments make some sense but i remain skeptical until i see some proof.

http://lolbuilder.net/gnar

It doesn't matter if you win lane if your nexus gets destroyed.

Vicarious117Sep 1, 20151 votes

First off, yes there are better lane bullies, but not many of them are also tanky teamfighters who can front line very well.

Second, ofc coming at him at the right angle while keeping track of his CDs will make ganking him easier, welcome to ganking every single champion in the game lol

And yes, maintaining 90-95 fury while both teams dance about is rather simple, but not when shit gets spontaneous, like in almost every single solo Q game. Also yeah, he does a decent amount of damage as mini Gnar n the early game and can stick to a single target very easily, but I'm talking about in comparison to Mega Gnar, you can't build tanky then assume you'll be able to AA a carry to death with their whole team there.

So yes, I'm saying his laning is fairly easy and safe, then his teamfighting has taken a huge hit due to his last nerfs. But I don't have to provide any proof, these are just facts that every one knows, they mention it a decent amount of times in the LCS when Gnar is picked even, I don't think they're just making that all up.

Finally, obviously, I never said it mattered if you still lose.....

AMYS GRAVESep 1, 20151 votes

So yes, I'm saying his laning is fairly easy and safe, then his teamfighting has taken a huge hit due to his last nerfs. But I don't have to provide any proof, these are just facts that every one knows, they mention it a decent amount of times in the LCS when Gnar is picked even, I don't think they're just making that all up.

Easy and safe sound like opinions that need to be backed up to me. They also don't seem to lead to winning lane as shown by winrates over time. The LCS casters call him a lane bully but i don't think that's a fair assessment and if that's the only evidence you have then that's an appeal to authority. Unless you have a more substantial argument then I'm going with you're just wrong.

Vicarious117Sep 1, 20151 votes

That's more then you've offered as proof, all I've gotten from you is equal to what you called "opinions that need to be backed up" and then the only other thing being a list of winrates that you yourself have admitted don't truly prove anything on their own.

So... I'm gonna go with you're just wrong.

AMYS GRAVESep 2, 20151 votes

Winrates don't prove anything on their own, but when his winrate is the lowest through the laning phase then that does show he is weakest at that point, so i have evidence based claims. I've provided links to data with winrates in various matchups and winrates over time that both indicate he loses lane, so evidence > claims and i have evidence while you have claims.

Vicarious117Sep 2, 20151 votes

No, winrates don't keep track of specific lane match ups and their scores coming out of it. For all you know most Gnars could be winning those lanes, cause winrates can't prove anything.

AMYS GRAVESep 2, 20151 votes

Right, winning lane has absolutely no correlation to winning game. No correlation at all. Winning the game has nothing to do with pressing advantages gained. Anyone who thinks that is obviously delusional. Winrates prove nothing at all. Not like winrates are verifiable. LCS caster opinion is the end of the argument and defines champion strength. Yup.

/kappa

The arguments I've made are measurable and verifiable. Yours are not.

Vicarious117Sep 2, 20151 votes

Those game winrates do not prove anything about whether he won lane or not. Maybe try paying attention next time instead of that sad attempt at being funny.

But yeah, let's ignore what the pro players and those who's lives actually do revolve around league, professionally, obviously just referring to what they said is just me reaching and not giving you ample reason to actually bother considering my points instead of half reading them then arguing something you barely understand.

See, I can do it too.

AMYS GRAVESep 2, 20151 votes

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

The pros believe it it must be true!

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

This is the widely accepted truth.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

Your inability to see the correlation between winning lane and winning game.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

You need to provide proof for the claim that you made. You have not.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Trying to insult my understanding of the matter.

Any other fallacies you would like to try?

Vicarious117Sep 3, 20151 votes

Omg that is hilarious!

Did you even read those? Or do you just know the base definition and thought "well I must be right all the time!"

Appeal to authority says that it shouldn't be used to disprove experts, you buddy are no expert, and it also says authority should not be ignored if they've proven to know wtf they're talking about, which the pros have done, at least more so then you have been able to.

Also the bandwagon thing, it doesn't apply. When someone jumps onto a bandwagon it's them just saying "oh hey guys, i think the same thing as you now!" In reality though, what I've been telling you is based on personal experience and what I've heard from the professionals, and it just so happens that most people agree with me. I haven't "bandwagoned," but that stretch of yours was a nice try.

The personal incredulity one is funny though, cause it applies to you just as much as me or anyone else on these forums. You obviously don't know shit about this, connecting lines that don't really exist, at least not in the ways you want them to. Again, you are not an expert on anything related to this, so it applies to you as well.

Like I've said before, burden of proof falls on both of us, and you haven't given anything substantial as I've explained (and you originally agreed as well), and I defaulted to the experts, that you are ignoring for your imaginary "facts," the one thing it said not to do in the definition of "appeal to authority."

And I don't need to insult your understanding, you obviously think you know more then you've proven you do, that's an apparent fact.

So yeah, nice try, but again you are no expert, either in LoL facts/balances or as a debater.

AMYS GRAVESep 6, 20151 votes

Appeal to authority says that it shouldn't be used to disprove experts, you buddy are no expert, and it also says authority should not be ignored if they've proven to know wtf they're talking about, which the pros have done, at least more so then you have been able to.

Unless one has emperical evidence, which i have provided. You have not.

Also the bandwagon thing, it doesn't apply. When someone jumps onto a bandwagon it's them just saying "oh hey guys, i think the same thing as you now!" In reality though, what I've been telling you is based on personal experience and what I've heard from the professionals, and it just so happens that most people agree with me. I haven't "bandwagoned," but that stretch of yours was a nice try.

You attempted to argue that i'm wrong because most people belive it to be true. Bandwagon.

The personal incredulity one is funny though, cause it applies to you just as much as me or anyone else on these forums. You obviously don't know shit about this, connecting lines that don't really exist, at least not in the ways you want them to. Again, you are not an expert on anything related to this, so it applies to you as well.

Insult me if you want (ad hominem) but it applies to the arguments you were making.

Like I've said before, burden of proof falls on both of us, and you haven't given anything substantial as I've explained (and you originally agreed as well), and I defaulted to the experts, that you are ignoring for your imaginary "facts," the one thing it said not to do in the definition of "appeal to authority."

The burdon of proof lies with the person making the claim. AKA you when you claimed "he is actually quite the overpowering lane opponent in many top lane match ups" which you have not backed up.

And I don't need to insult your understanding, you obviously think you know more then you've proven you do, that's an apparent fact.

Then why do it?

So yeah, nice try, but again you are no expert, either in LoL facts/balances or as a debater.

7 posts, 0 evidence, acting like you've won any part of this argument, cute.

AkabaneKunAug 31, 20151 votes

Jesus git gud mate.

AL000Aug 31, 20151 votes

gnar is really poor design because mini gnar is adc level ... mega gnar is tank level... there is no correct item for gnar to have good power curve...

only mega gnar is useful due to high sustain, crazy cc, and burst than mini gnar...

AMYS GRAVEAug 31, 20151 votes

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=top-matchup&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond

Don't know why the downvotes, he's not wrong.

EDIT: fixed the link to high elo ranked instead of norms... same conclusion though. whoops.

LuggAug 31, 20151 votes

Well considering he has a 51% win rate in Plat+ currently, I'd say he has some very good matchups.

AsphodelNextAug 31, 20151 votes

I'm sure we can find one he wins... Alistar Blitzcrank Galio Hey, he can probably even beat DrMundo

WarlockLawSep 1, 20151 votes

The real problem with gnar is that he doesn't have many (if any) where both of his forms offer a favorable match up. Almost any top laner can win trades easily against one of gnar's forms it just changes depending on the champ. And there are still other champs that can beat both. Of course gnar really shines during teamfights so it's w/e

GigahappytownSep 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The real problem with gnar is that he doesn't have many (if any) where both of his forms offer a favorable match up. Almost any top laner can win trades easily against one of gnar's forms it just changes depending on the champ. And there are still other champs that can beat both. Of course gnar really shines during teamfights so it's w/e

Yes /thread

Gnar by design can not counter anyone or have winning matchups

sure if darius misses his hook when your in mini gnar form you can punish him but what happends when you go megar gnar? you'll get creamed or zoned from farm

and darius can play aggressive when your about to transform from mini to megar or vice versa

garen is too quick and can zone you by using bushes you can counter this by shoving him to his turret where he can't get to you because of minion waves and no bushes but you leave yourself vulnerable to ganks

megar gnar losses because garen is straight up deals more damage and is more durable

the ONLY reason to ever pick gnar is for his teamfighting every other tank is better at laning than gnar