Unbalanced matchmaking

Shinji lkari·Jul 26, 2016·13 votes·4,585 views

What I have been noticing ever since I first reached Silver 2 (I am gold 4 now) is that I have been matched against players in Platinum divisions. Now I wouldn't normally have a problem with this if my team also had the same ratio of platinum players to make it even. The problem is there isn't. Often my team will be comprised of the lowest or lower ranked players even UNRANKED or players who placed bronze in the past season, while at the same time the enemy will have 1 or 2 platinum 4 or 5 players and high gold players.

Regardless of the fast that I won't have a net loss of elo, but a gain of 2-5 LP, it still is frustrating that the teams are unbalanced and unfair from the get go. Especially since the allowance of Dynamic queue I see this is possible especially when players are duo queuing. Players who have gotten passed all of the divisions I'm trying to get out of get to have a better chance of winning LP than I do when they're far from my division.

Either Riot should up the amount of elo you receive for defeating these players to 30+ or fix it entirely.

My previous and current match is suffering from these matchmaking issues.

20 Comments

Laqutis BotJul 26, 20164 votes

These topics about match making being not quite right, come up all the time, and most players reply 'NO WAY MATCHMAKING IS BROKEN U JUST SUK', makes me lol every time.

It's easy to tell after playing around 3-5 games the match making is horrendously broken at low levels. Players who aren't playing ranked yet have the worst experience. Bronze/Silver players complain about getting that level 20 in their game.. but it's even worse when you're level 10 and you're getting golds or platinums in your game, not to mention huge quantity of smurfs.

The smurfs in low level is excusable to some degree because match making can't immediately detect them, but something is seriously wrong when a gold/platinum player is matched against a bunch of level 10-15s. Usually you don't even have to lookup their stats to tell who is smurfing/ or shouldn't be in the match, it's no surprise when the person carrying 25/0/10 600 cs is a platinum playing among level 10 brand new players.

I would rather take long queue times and have even matches. Every match is already too one sided without the imbalanced match making.

Shinji lkariJul 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laqutis Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMbAinAF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-26T04:00:50.390+0000)

These topics about match making being not quite right, come up all the time, and most players reply 'NO WAY MATCHMAKING IS BROKEN U JUST SUK', makes me lol every time.

It's easy to tell after playing around 3-5 games the match making is horrendously broken at low levels. Players who aren't playing ranked yet have the worst experience. Bronze/Silver players complain about getting that level 20 in their game.. but it's even worse when you're level 10 and you're getting golds or platinums in your game, not to mention huge quantity of smurfs.

The smurfs in low level is excusable to some degree because match making can't immediately detect them, but something is seriously wrong when a gold/platinum player is matched against a bunch of level 10-15s. Usually you don't even have to lookup their stats to tell who is smurfing/ or shouldn't be in the match, it's no surprise when the person carrying 25/0/10 600 cs is a platinum playing among level 10 brand new players.

I would rather take long queue times and have even matches. Every match is already too one sided without the imbalanced match making.

what I really hate is that this isn't normals, in normals it's great for practice. But in ranked? I know for a fact you won't see a single gold player in a diamond match, so why are all these plats in mine?

I even went on an extreme tilt before I hit gold 4 where my winrate was negative by 30 games (not anymore) so a 50% winrate isn't going to give me god like elo.

If I'm being matched against plat players either they should get demoted or I should be skipping tiers if I can beat them.

Laqutis BotJul 26, 20162 votes

It's not really good practice when 1 player is hard carrying the whole team and when games are won and lost based on whoever has the more/higher ranked players on it. The other players really don't learn much when they're dying over and over to someone who has been playing for years longer than them. And if the match making is this bad in normals, I don't imagine ranked is much better.

In theory, the calculation of ELO/MMR itself is somewhat difficult, but once ELO is actually calculated, matching players of similar skill shouldn't be that hard, and this is the part LoL fails at hard.

I am pretty certain LoL sacrifices balance when queue times are longer.. which is a good idea in theory cause 'waiting sucks' but I think that it's taken too far sometimes, there should be somewhat of a limit - players cannot be matched against another player more than 2 tiers apart.. Bronze/Silver/Gold can be matched together, but not Bronze and Platinum, same goes with unranked and ranked players, it's okay when bronze and silver are in unranked players games, but when gold or higher appear it starts messing up the balance hard.

Also it's my personal opinion that gaining/losing LP based on winning or losing a match is a terrible idea, because winning and losing are largely independent of individual skill performance of the game you just played, partly because of the imbalanced teams.

LifeyJul 26, 20161 votes

How long ago did you hit gold 4 from when you were silver 2?

rtbf221651412Jul 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

How long ago did you hit gold 4 from when you were silver 2?

You can't seriously believe this is the answer to everything.

Shinji lkariJul 26, 20161 votes

Just played a game where my team had 2 silvers and 3 golds, enemy team had all golds and one plat 4.

Why am I only getting 22 LP? They had an exponentially higher elo average than my team and they could only get about 7 or 8 kills an entire 30+ minute match.

Why are they even in platinum if they can't beat players that aren't close to their elo and they're supposedly playing serious because it's not normals?

LifeyJul 26, 20161 votes

Uhm more than 22 LP? dude 22 LP is actually alot when it comes to climbing the ladder. The reason you are being queued with them is because yalls elo are just about the same. That's what happens when you climb divisions really fast. Your elo skyrockets, then you start going against people that are above your elo. When you finally reach the point that is just past where you belong, you will start losing games because you will have hit your plateau. Even if your ELO isn't high, their ELO may be low due to how bad they are and got carried to plat. That's why you see plat 4's and 5's in silver one to gold 4 games. Because that is where their actual ELO is. I am in Gold 1 and have been in my series to plat twice this week. In one of those series I had a silver 1 Hecarim jungle, who you could tell was not at mine or anyone else in that games skill level. This is all based on how I see the ranking system of course, I may be wrong, but from what I know of it, this sounds about right.

Shinji lkariJul 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Uhm more than 22 LP? dude 22 LP is actually alot when it comes to climbing the ladder. The reason you are being queued with them is because yalls elo are just about the same. That's what happens when you climb divisions really fast. Your elo skyrockets, then you start going against people that are above your elo. When you finally reach the point that is just past where you belong, you will start losing games because you will have hit your plateau. Even if your ELO isn't high, their ELO may be low due to how bad they are and got carried to plat. That's why you see plat 4's and 5's in silver one to gold 4 games. Because that is where their actual ELO is. I am in Gold 1 and have been in my series to plat twice this week. In one of those series I had a silver 1 Hecarim jungle, who you could tell was not at mine or anyone else in that games skill level. This is all based on how I see the ranking system of course, I may be wrong, but from what I know of it, this sounds about right.

It isn't right or fair. Sure maybe I'll eventually hit Plat and can fight Plat players, but can my team do that? And those Plat players STAY in Plat when they are being matched with Silver and LOW Golds, they should be demoted if that's the case. I may be climbing the ladder, but there's a difference between me being able to carry my team against the Plat I'm up against, and then the enemy team has 2 Plats and a Gold 1, meanwhile I'm only in 1 lane, and now my team doesn't know what to do and plays bad. And 22 is not a lot, 25+ is.

It would take me 5 division jumps to reach Plat 4, so why does the Plat 4 stay in Plat 4 or only gets bumped down 1 division?

Locke DaemonfireJul 26, 20161 votes

Just a reminder that Rank =/= MMR, and matchmaking only cares about the latter. For instance, if you look up the Plat player on that last game on op.gg, he has an estimated MMR that is lower than yours, even though he is a higher rank. It is likely that that player is in a rank too high for his MMR and will fall soon.

IGankLikeGastonJul 26, 20163 votes

Thank you for disproving the idiots that like to say "everyone is exactly where they should be in League".

Shinji lkariJul 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Locke Daemonfire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMbAinAF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-07-26T06:10:14.404+0000)

Just a reminder that Rank =/= MMR, and matchmaking only cares about the latter. For instance, if you look up the Plat player on that last game on op.gg, he has an estimated MMR that is lower than yours, even though he is a higher rank. It is likely that that player is in a rank too high for his MMR and will fall soon.

Yeah I know that Rank doesn't equal MMR but there's no excuse for someone an entire tier above you (Plat 4) to be in any of your matches if you're Gold 4. Riot has made it very difficult to actually get demoted from one tier to another when it's Silver to Gold or Gold to Plat. Basically, these Plat 4/5 players will go on loss streaks or play with their friends, lower their MMR but that doesn't mean they aren't actually skilled enough to beat a lower elo player.

The whole MMR excuse would mean something if the Plat player was honestly boosted. But more often than not, they aren't. I check my teammates ranks, win/loss and mains before all of my matches, maybe I'll put together some censored screenshots to show what's going on. But I had a Plat V player on my team with a loss streak. But I knew I was going to win that game because when you are having a loss streak with people of your same rank, you'll get paired up with people of a lower rank because of the MMR.

The problem is that shouldn't be allowed. If you cannot beat someone 5 divisions below you, then a demotion should occur immediately. Riot refuses to demote people quick enough. We're all working hard to climb, but there's no excuse for my team to have the silver and unranked and enemy team have the Plat V/high golds, especially when my winrate is positive. If I am to fight plat players then give me the LP I deserve.

Locke DaemonfireJul 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laevus Levus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMbAinAF,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-07-26T17:40:41.284+0000) The problem is that shouldn't be allowed. If you cannot beat someone 5 divisions below you, then a demotion should occur immediately. Riot refuses to demote people quick enough. We're all working hard to climb, but there's no excuse for my team to have the silver and unranked and enemy team have the Plat V/high golds, especially when my winrate is positive. If I am to fight plat players then give me the LP I deserve.

I don't know what to tell you. I mean yeah, maybe they should demote/promote people faster, but rank is essentially is just aesthetic. It wouldn't have made a difference in your match if your opponent was already demoted or not. If there's an issue here it's in the ranking system, not the matchmaking. Matchmaking set up a fair match, that was perceived as unfair because of the ranking system.

Shinji lkariJul 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Locke Daemonfire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMbAinAF,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-07-26T17:54:20.445+0000)

I don't know what to tell you. I mean yeah, maybe they should demote/promote people faster, but rank is essentially is just aesthetic. It wouldn't have made a difference in your match if your opponent was already demoted or not. If there's an issue here it's in the ranking system, not the matchmaking. Matchmaking set up a fair match, that was perceived as unfair because of the ranking system.

No. IT wasn't perceived, it IS unfair in every aspect. Ranked is NOT an aesthetic, Rank displays your mechanical skill and KNOWLEDGE of the game. If you made it to Platinum, Diamond or any above Elo that is because you passed a threshold of ability that the players below you DO NOT HAVE. That goes to say it can be done by maining a specific role or specific champion, and rendering you below average in other roles.

Lately Riot has incorporated Auto-fill for high elo players that will automatically for them into a role. So lets say this player lost from being placed in a role he wasn't good at, but then he gets paired against my team as his preferred role. We're all royally screwed, especially if one of my team players is still Silver level.

You seem confused by the idea of Ranked and MMR. Ranking is determined by your MMR being within a certain range and determines what players you play against with. That does not mean that Ranking doesn't mean anything because someone has a low MMR. That's like saying someone who trolled their way to Bronze on a smurf is a bad player because his MMR is low. He's not.

Riot's MMR system and Ranking system are not up to par with each other like they should be. Before the introduction of Dynamic queue, SoloQ had very balanced and effective match making. Now Dynamic queue has become another Normal Queue. Everyone duoing, trioing, quadrupling, and pentagrouping fuck up the MMR. This is especially why Riot cannot post statistics that don't show the obvious ADVANTAGE groups have against SoloQ players.

There is a certain MMR you're supposed to have to stay a certain rank, in a certain division and in a certain tier. If you're in Gold I/II and see Plats in your matches that means you're close to becoming one yourself. But when you're Silver 2 and see a Plat in your match, you're nowhere near being that level, and that Plat is not going to get demoted any time soon.

Instead of focusing on how to make ranking appeal to kids and their friends, they should focus on making the games balanced and fair again.

Locke DaemonfireJul 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laevus Levus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMbAinAF,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-26T20:09:52.937+0000)

Rank displays your mechanical skill and KNOWLEDGE of the game. If you made it to Platinum, Diamond or any above Elo that is because you passed a threshold of ability that the players below you DO NOT HAVE. That goes to say it can be done by maining a specific role or specific champion, and rendering you below average in other roles.

Lately Riot has incorporated Auto-fill for high elo players that will automatically for them into a role. So lets say this player lost from being placed in a role he wasn't good at, but then he gets paired against my team as his preferred role. We're all royally screwed, especially if one of my team players is still Silver level.

It would be nice if they had a separate MMR for each role (each champion even?) and each queue size, and more. But it would honestly be a big mess if they tried to do it. Unfortunately, there just isn't a clean way to control for people playing an off-role or returning from a losing streak, etc. Some matches just aren't going to be balanced.

However, I would argue that the match you won with a plat on the other side (who performed mostly mediocrely, based on the stats) was not one of those. Again, the player had a platinum Rank, but gold MMR and skills at most.

You seem confused by the idea of Ranked and MMR. Ranking is determined by your MMR being within a certain range and determines what players you play against with.

This is incorrect. Ranking (your division/tier) does not determine what players you play against and with. Your MMR does. Ranking is like a moving average of your MMR with a delay, plus some artificial controls to make people feel better and stay motivated. It has no effect on match making.

Shinji lkariJul 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Locke Daemonfire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMbAinAF,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-26T21:21:58.945+0000)

It would be nice if they had a separate MMR for each role (each champion even?) and each queue size, and more. But it would honestly be a big mess if they tried to do it. Unfortunately, there just isn't a clean way to control for people playing an off-role or returning from a losing streak, etc. Some matches just aren't going to be balanced.

However, I would argue that the match you won with a plat on the other side (who performed mostly mediocrely, based on the stats) was not one of those. Again, the player had a platinum Rank, but gold MMR and skills at most.

This is incorrect. Ranking (your division/tier) does not determine what players you play against and with. Your MMR does. Ranking is like a moving average of your MMR with a delay, plus some artificial controls to make people feel better and stay motivated. It has no effect on match making.

Ranking does not serve as motivation or else you wouldn't need to be Master tier or Challenger tier for lcs.

oChaseJul 26, 20161 votes

I'm honestly fine with the plat opponents. The one thing i can't stand are the allies you tend to get who are either unranked or just hit gold/high silver by God knows what means. I've hit Gold 4 about 5 times in the past month and demote after one loss next game because for some reason i get the silvers and gold 5's yet play against the gold 3's and up. I'd like to climb but, when my 80% win rate shyv or 70% win rate voli go down to the reg 50% because no one wants to listen to the jungle calls, or learn how to back off when losing, how am i supposed to climb? Yes, many players are right by stating get better at the game. However, not many players have the coordination for that. Some of us are pure strategic players and prefer to be the Akashi of the team. (Anime reference, Akashi manipulates his team to win games thought it was a good one). Anywho, enough of my low elo rambling. A simple fix in mmr, tweak in elo, and update of the ranking system would be nice.

Shinji lkariJul 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm honestly fine with the plat opponents. The one thing i can't stand are the allies you tend to get who are either unranked or just hit gold/high silver by God knows what means. I've hit Gold 4 about 5 times in the past month and demote after one loss next game because for some reason i get the silvers and gold 5's yet play against the gold 3's and up. I'd like to climb but, when my 80% win rate shyv or 70% win rate voli go down to the reg 50% because no one wants to listen to the jungle calls, or learn how to back off when losing, how am i supposed to climb? Yes, many players are right by stating get better at the game. However, not many players have the coordination for that. Some of us are pure strategic players and prefer to be the Akashi of the team. (Anime reference, Akashi manipulates his team to win games thought it was a good one). Anywho, enough of my low elo rambling. A simple fix in mmr, tweak in elo, and update of the ranking system would be nice.

I definitely agree with you. That's why my whole focus is the unbalanced nature of it. When we still had Solo Q it was actually rare or NEVER did you see someone from Plat in a gold match. I was seeing Plats when I was still SILVER. That's flat out wrong. I would lose my promos because of it. And Promos to GOLD should not require defeating Platinum ranked players.

Riot needs to definitely fix the MMR and matchmaking system, want to throw Plats in low Gold games? Go ahead, but make sure both teams have Plats on them, not just one.

SaintDrugAddictJun 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shinji lkari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMbAinAF,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-26T03:30:10.706+0000)

What I have been noticing ever since I first reached Silver 2 (I am gold 4 now) is that I have been matched against players in Platinum divisions. Now I wouldn't normally have a problem with this if my team also had the same ratio of platinum players to make it even. The problem is there isn't. Often my team will be comprised of the lowest or lower ranked players even UNRANKED or players who placed bronze in the past season, while at the same time the enemy will have 1 or 2 platinum 4 or 5 players and high gold players.

Regardless of the fast that I won't have a net loss of elo, but a gain of 2-5 LP, it still is frustrating that the teams are unbalanced and unfair from the get go. Especially since the allowance of Dynamic queue I see this is possible especially when players are duo queuing. Players who have gotten passed all of the divisions I'm trying to get out of get to have a better chance of winning LP than I do when they're far from my division.

Either Riot should up the amount of elo you receive for defeating these players to 30+ or fix it entirely.

My previous and current match is suffering from these matchmaking issues.

im a level 27 unranked. came back to game after quitting in 2014. friend is gold2. first pub blind pick, my team two silver one low gold syndra that goes in 1v5 and keeps saying "dude its pub just chill lul xdddddd" enemy team, three plat, two gold. i dont even have any runes i only have nami and morgana opened from expensive heroes. enemy has a yasuo spammer, our sydra gives 4 kills in 3 minutes. fun game

we get tired of yasuo spammers, we try draft pick.(let me remind u i am level 27 unranked and friend is gold2) enemy team, three diamond, one is dia1. one high plat one high gold. my team two platV one gold V. another "dude chill its pub its not important luluulululul" viktor. after 4 minutes "fakin piece of s**t adc go kill yourself you are useless you are shit i hope you die you retard"

im serious thinking about just spamming the rankeds if i will only get stupidly unbalanced games in pubs, since ranked-pub wont matter at this point. and yes i am planning to learn-try heroes in ranked as well since all i get is riven-yasuo-syndra spammers in pubs with very high rank or just smurfing like mad

CrëëpOct 25, 20171 votes

I actually don't even know what to do anymore. I get put in games with players that troll, rage quit and don't even wanna play the game if we give up first blood. It's really frustrating, cuz even the games where we have a solid lead someone finds an excuse (like stealing a wraith or minion from lane) or something to just rage and quit.

And now I'm on a losing strak (granted i haven't played nearly good enough myself) and I'm still matched with Gold IV or Gold V players on the opposing team, whilst having silver V and silver IV on my own with no one ranked higher than silver II. I really don't think thats fair. No matter what.