Shyvana has a 41% win rate as top and 46% win rate as jungle.

BluePolarizer·May 18, 2015·12 votes·1,938 views

She is weaker than new Ryze, Urgot and Poppy. She is literally the worst top laner in the game atm. This makes me sad because I play Shyvana alot yet she is worse than Gangplank.

So much for the hype of "tank meta" and "smite top lane Cinderhulk OP".

I really think that Shyvana needs some help. Small buffs to her fury generation, E hitbox or Q's base cooldown would make a HUGE difference in her power levels.

43 Comments

Drunk RummateMay 18, 20154 votes

I think a big aspect of this is that people taking Shyvnaa top with tp/smite don't understand how the strategy is supposed to work. They think "Hey I can rush challenjour smite and outduel this noob ezpz" when really what they need to be doing is shoving lane super hard and then counterjungling with their smite and hitting higher levels extremely fast from the extra experience.

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20151 votes

even then, is smite tp shyvana actually good, or do ppl just not expect the counterjungling ?

Drunk RummateMay 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

even then, is smite tp shyvana actually good, or do ppl just not expect the counterjungling ?

Yeah Smite TP Shyvana is great if you play her properly. You can hit level 16 around the time most solo laners are level 14 and you're basically a god in teamfights unless someone got stupidly fed from kills.

Unfortunately in low ELO the latter tends to happen more often than it should making her less relevant though. Granted, there's also the likelihood that she get super fed from kills for the same reason so...

Slamurai JackMay 18, 20154 votes

I think Shyvanas Win rate is so low largely because people don't understand what her win condition is or how to teamfight with her. Playing her either top or jungle, your goal is to farm up a big gold and exp lead while keeping the enemy top laner or jungler out of the game, either by constantly shoving top lane to tower, or by constantly invading the enemy jungler. Shyvana's kit scales in such a way that she's basically unmanageable 1v1 past lvl 9, and you should abuse this as much as possible by constantly being in the enemies face and forcing their team to send people to try and deal with you.

Once you've gotten a decent gold and exp lead, you need to look at both team comps and figure out what you're going to be able to do in a teamfight. Shyvana does 2 main things in a teamfight; she either chases down squishy targets and forces them out of a fight, or she jumps into clumps of enemies and does a bunch of AOE Mixed damage. Which one you choose to do depends on how much peel the enemy team has. Trying to dive past a Maokai, Janna, and Nautilus to kill a Kalista is just going to get you kited and killed, but you can still be a wall for your squishier teammates by duking it out with Maokai and Nautlius while your team provides damage from behind you. Tbh, I think the biggest reason Shyvana's win rate is so low is the same reason Mundo's and Olaf's are so low: They try way too hard to dive when they shouldn't and make themselves useless.

BluePolarizerMay 19, 20151 votes

I think this is exactly it. I've seen Darius players win teamfights not by chasing down the ADC, but by mowing down the enemy front line so that yes, while he dies, the enemy frontline also dies and now there's nothing protecting the enemy squishies from the rest of your team. Shyvana is much tanker and does way more AOE damage than Darius, so this strategy might be the optimal one if they have too much peel.

IcyPepperMay 18, 20152 votes

"smite top lane Cinderhulk OP".

I think part of this comes from people being uncomfortable with a top laner taking anything BUT teleport or ignite with flash up top.

People are uncomfortable when the meta changes. Adc support bot lane is okay for several seasons, mages and assassins go mid, but if top and jungle starts having tanks that are hard to kill (which is the point...), it's frustrating. To be fair, there are some unbalanced tanks, but that goes for mages, assassins, and all the rest too.

Zero ShingetsuMay 18, 20153 votes

People are uncomfortable when the meta changes.

Definitely. There shouldn't even be one. If League wants to call itself a sport, its players need to understand that every sport has varying strategies. Saying there's a "meta" is like saying a football team can only every play 3-4. 4-3 doesn't work. Ever.

And that's just not true. It's not true here, either; I've had plenty of great games with a support in the toplane. Usually, the difference in experience gain isn't enough to overcome the difference in numbers; two level 4 champions are still scarier than one level 5 champion. As long as you hang back once the enemy hits 6 until one or both of you do, you're fine.

MarthianMay 18, 20151 votes

Not saying it doesn't work, but Metas are generally "there are many strategies out there, but this is by far the most reliable." I've seen double bruisers bot lane on multiple occasions, sometimes they win, sometimes they don't.

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20152 votes

no such thing as tank meta though. it's adc meta. if it were tank meta shyvana would not be inferior to urgot, poppy and gangplank .

MarthianMay 18, 20151 votes

Did I say anything about type of meta? And unless the recent patch changed it, it is still a tank meta, where tanks are super hard to kill and deal tons of damage.

Shyvana has a pretty terrible passive. It only gives 5/10/15/20 armor at 1/6/11/16, which isn't that much at those points of the game (save late game and she doesn't really do any better late game anyways)

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20152 votes

which tanks lol, it's just sejuani and gragas .

jDVL20eCYsMay 19, 20151 votes

true, they are the only broken cause they have tons of cc damage AND untarget free mobility while building full tank. the only one that can really compete with team is am mum. Gragas have really strong really game while seju is super have a super power spike at level 6 and 9 with chinderhulk. Both can really well with and without ult. what ammumuhe lacks compare to them is free mobility but his all in and damage is slightly higher then seju and gragas, but amumu is more binary while gragas and seju have lot of flexibility why they are god tier and also reksai. if you play against a grays sjeuani who knows what they are doing its just god awful.... they are like assassin cc tanks the can just through the front line and over the enemy back line

BluePolarizerMay 19, 20151 votes

Amumu isn't anywhere close to being as crazy as Gragas and Sejuani.

Gragas is actually a good duelist that clears healthy, has an escape and can win games with a single ult. Amumu can't. He is a terrible duelist, clears like crap, has no escape if counterjungled/counterganked and his ult cannot singlehandedly delete people. Sejuani has way higher damage and mobility than Amumu. They also both have guaranteed gapclosers (whether it stuns is another thing, but it WILL close the gap) whereas if Amumu fails his Q, he has NO gapcloser.

jDVL20eCYsMay 19, 20151 votes

his win rate tells different and am mum that land a big ult will just win temafights. as i said am mum is strong in this meta and one of the absolutely strongest champ in the game in below diamond elo, in diamond gragas sejuani just out shine him thanks to more options and more loaded kits

jDVL20eCYsMay 19, 20151 votes

her passive is really good specially 40 extra mr when she is in dragon form. its really strong. why she scale well with hp

MarthianMay 20, 20151 votes

True, She can be very strong late game. But in my experience, has a hard time getting there.

jDVL20eCYsMay 20, 20151 votes

naa just stop with this smit tp too lane that suck balls

IcyPepperMay 18, 20151 votes

Healthy metagaming, however, has a few strategies that are viable and counteract with each other, Pokemon being one example.

Adc/support bot lane, and then assassin/mage mid lane. People forget how to pick top and jungle at times, but in the current meta it's wise to have one bruiser and then one tank for a balanced team comp. Multiple assassins just isn't as strong right now.

Zero ShingetsuMay 18, 20151 votes

True. But I feel like that could be true of the meta, too, haha! At least in my personal experience, when I bring a support bot, I win and lose in about equal measure. When I bring a support top to help my bruiser instead of jungling, I win slightly more than I lose. I think a lot of it is a matter of perception.

Any strategy is a "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose" situation, but the losses that come from breaking the meta are perceived as matters of course because people have a meta ingrained into their minds.

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20151 votes

they jump on the shyvana smite tp hypetrain and make it seem like every top laner in the game buys cinderhulk and nothing else is viable. turns out cinder shyvana top is trash and worse than urgot, poppy and gangplank.

they then get cinderhulk olafed.

g07h4xf00May 18, 20152 votes

Shyvana is probably the most stupid champion in the game right now

back in season 4 when Shyvana/Mundo was the top lane meta top lane fucking sucked. If Shyvana is good in a meta, that meta sucks.

Her kit is the most mindless thing ever. Free stats on her passive. Doesn't need to build anything. They are just free. Here, take it. No resources. Her "Rage" bar is just a reverse cooldown timer for her ultimate that can be reduced by mindlessly auto attacking.

Here's a flow chart for how to play/build shyvana:

Buy . Already own ? Go full tank
Don't buy ever in your life pretend that item doesn't exist in the game
Are any of your abilities off cooldown? GOTO 5
Auto attack nearest champion or minion
Use your abilities on the nearest enemy champion or minion
Is enemy ADC in range? Use your ultimate on them.
Go to 3

There's no decision making or mechanics. You are a ball of stats. You simply exist in the middle of minions and they die. You simply walk toward the enemy champion and they eventually die. As long as your stats are higher than theirs, they will inevitably die.

Slamurai JackMay 18, 20151 votes

While I agree with the playstyle advice, I have to disagree on the build. Your build is a more old style build, and it still works fine, but I think there are better options available. For one, Shyvana massively benefits from more CDR and yet your build only has 10% in it. Allow me to present an alternative.

I only play Jungle Shyvana and not top lane, and I have 2 main builds depending on whether I feel I need to be tankier or I can focus on damage. The first build is a more damage centric one with a 21/9 mastery setup. item 3709 item 3071 item 3143 item 3153 item 3074 item 3269 . This build gives you an enormous amount of both dps and burst while also making you tanky enough to take some hits. You have 3 different slows, so sticking to people shouldn't be an issue, and BC+Hydra+Dragon Form allows you to shred an entire teams armor extremely quickly and also givng tons of sustain thanks to both hydra and botrk. You will dominate entire teams with this build if you get even a few seconds to attack .

The second build build is more of a front liner build that sacrifices damage for higher tankiness with a 9/21 mastery setup. item 3709 item 3071 item 3153 item 3143 item 3065 item 3264 with possible substitutions of item 3022 , item 3102 , item 3075 , or item 3074 when appropriate. This build is much more about diving first into the enemy team and giving your team a strong initiation and tanky wall to use for their safety. You can either choose to attack enemy tanks to shred down their armor with BC and health with botrk, or you can chase down enemy carries and let your team deal with their front line.

In either case, the new Black Cleaver is absolutely core. Why? Because it gives tons of stats that Shyv loves. It gives AD, which Shyv scales well with. It gives health, which synergizes with her already high natural resistances. It gives MS, which someone like Shyvana can never have enough of. And it gives 20% CDR which is a huge boon for her since Shyv is a champion that loves CDR but perviously had no good options other than SV for for building it. I also run 15% CDR at lvl 18 in my runes, so with either build, I will reach 40% CDR. And let me tell you, A Shyv with 40% CDR is alot scarier than one with 10%. You can keep your W on indefinitely so long as you keep autoattacking and your Q is up every couple of autos or so.

BluePolarizerMay 19, 20151 votes

I started playing with a Triforce-Randuins core for the huge burst on Q. In that case what should I take as my CDR item? Frozen Heart is partially wasted due to the mana, but... the CDR/aura/armor is sooo good...

Slamurai JackMay 19, 20151 votes

I do think FH can be worth it against AA heavy teams whether you can use the mana or not; I occasionally get it on Mundo for that very reason. However, if you still want a 20% CDR item, I see no reason why you couldn't get item 3071 as well for a more damage focused build. Sure, Triforces rage passive is wasted, but BC's is better anyway. Another possible choice is item 3050 . It's an odd item that pretty much no one builds, but Shyvana likes all of the stats it gives and it's decent option on AD heavy teams. If you're willing to settle for 10% CDR, item 3190 is probably your best bet. Shyvana tends to be in amongst a bunch of people so the MR aura and shield active can be very useful, particularly if you have an AP support that doesn't build the item.

BluePolarizerMay 19, 20151 votes

I've actually built Zekes on Hecarim when I had to rush Thornmail because the enemy ADC was dominating, but needed damage, HP and CDR over just inefficiently stacking more armor that LW would've ripped through anyways. I've actually never thought about building it on Shyvana because she doesn't use the damage and lifesteal as well as Hecarim does, but I'll give it a try.

EllaRyu69May 18, 20151 votes

well she was buffed a few times in recent patches but i do want her to be buffed again cuz otherwise i'm just a meatshield with my ultimate being stopped when i just cast it lol ;w;

Zero ShingetsuMay 18, 20151 votes

I agree. She's never seemed like a very good tank OR bruiser, just an... average both. She needs the capability of leaning one way or the other thought items, and that means tweaks to her scaling.

YakasMay 18, 20151 votes

Lol, shyvana is fine.

Phoenix Kotori May 18, 20151 votes

>Q's base cooldown

Oh yes please do that *sinister laugh* not like it will have any unintended consequences of buffing her off build greatly or anything muahahahaha.

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20151 votes

I watched those videos. Assassin Shyvana is very interesting but I think l that I can do similar burst damage to squishy targets with just Triforce and Shiv. No need for the IE as well. still have to build semi tanky anyhow with at least randuins for sticking.

Phoenix Kotori May 18, 20151 votes

IE is unneeded, but item 3072 + another lifesteal item is all defense you need unless vs overwhelming burst burst.

item 3710 item 3153 item 3087 item 3078 removes need for sticking power of omen or can go item 3022 if you wanted

KingsgraveMay 18, 20151 votes

They are working on a Shyvana rework from what we could tell on the PBE. (it was on there for like a day then removed)

Her E spreads like wildfire and her R is a ring of Fire that works like Rumble R

I welcome a rework because keeping Shvyana as mindless run forward forever is the same as letting her stay 40-45% winrate forever. She only got back into favor because of the Smite top bullshit anyway.

Linna ExcelMay 18, 20151 votes

Don't take her top then.

JustMyBassCannonMay 18, 20151 votes

Watching people say buff Shyvana, and I'm just sitting here thinking, "Yeah, sure, I wouldn't mind seeing my favorite champ go from solid to DEARGODWHY again."

Jungle Lux GodMay 18, 20151 votes

Something to keep in mind that win rate is not a direct indicator of balance, as there are a lot of stuff that goes into balance.

That said, the statistics on champion.gg. are interesting to say the least. The fact that Shyvana's highest winrate Summoner Spells are Flash/TP and still sports a low win rate with those summoners means it's not a matter of people trying to play Shyvana with Smite/TP because it's apparently OP, as my best guess for why she has such a low winrate in top would have been that people were running Smite/TP without understanding why it's played.

OxBakerMay 19, 20151 votes

You know you are in bad shape if Ryze even has a higher winrate than you.

CrazedPorcupineMay 19, 20151 votes

Shyvanna has such a low winrate due to idiots thinking, OH A PRO TOOK SHYVANNA TOP WITH SMITE TP, SO I CAN GO AND DO IT WITHOUT ANY PRACTICE OR THOUGHT PROCESS. They then fail miserably and feed and end up doing nothing.

ErockandrollMay 19, 20151 votes

Shyvana really isn't a tank, she's a Bruiser duelist, which really arn't meta. I don't think she's received anything except buffs since the last time she was meta (and that's when Jax was considered OP)

Shyvana was tunneled into the Cinderhulk top build because that's was her most powerful build. Personally, I don't necessarily think the top smite should disappear entirely, but top laners should pay more for acting as a second Jungler, Later in the game. Though with cinderhulk and challenging smite nerfed to a more manageable level, She does have more room to be buffed.

I'd probably be a little wait and see at the moment, see how the item changes affect the champion roster.

BluePolarizerMay 19, 20151 votes

why pay more for it? there's literally 2 top laners that can go smite/TP and not get rekt for it in lane: Shyvana and Hecarim.

Shyvana had a low win rate even when Cinderhulk was at full power.

Literally all Cinderhulk did, was make Gragas and Sejuani OP. No other tank junglers are OP and have anywhere near their pick/ban/win rate.

ErockandrollMay 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

why pay more for it? there's literally 2 top laners that can go smite/TP and not get rekt for it in lane: Shyvana and Hecarim.

Shyvana had a low win rate even when Cinderhulk was at full power.

Literally all Cinderhulk did, was make Gragas and Sejuani OP. No other tank junglers are OP and have anywhere near their pick/ban/win rate.

I disagree. If Smite top was that OP, then peoples choices of toplaners would be restricted to Shivana and Hecarim (and smite mundo also saw play as well)

Though top lane wasn't just Cinderhulk, It was a combination for Cinderhulk, Challenging smite, and the champs who could use it. Both Cinderhulk and Challenging smite got nerfed in such a was that hinders the smite top meta more so that their Jungler counterpart. Shyvana didn't need a nerf because she was tunneled into that build. Hercarim did get a get a love tap though he was not tunneled into that build (he could go tp, ignite with an Early triforce, and make plays) while trying not to affect his ability to jungle.

Sejuani already got nerfed, she no longer that OP. Gragas is an interesting Jungler because he can make plays early on. (unlike most Tank Junglers) And he's more burst oriented than the likes of Sejuani. So he can do more damage in a gank early game. I Believed one of the shout casters called him "the lee sin of the tank meta." I would argue that he some what falls of late, His burst becomes less pronounced unless you build him AP, and I believe Sejuani will scale better than him late game.

Toothless LionMay 19, 20151 votes

The smite teleport tards are part of the problem. Her winrate would be higher top lane if people stopped doing it.

AnonagonMay 19, 20151 votes

I was a Shyvana main back in season three, and I still play her from time to time, but I don't think I want to see her flat buffed. She is very simplistic, very boring to play against, and very stack-stick-y. Right now she just kinda whacks stuff without thinking about it. Of course there is a lot of finesse Shyvana players can have, mainly with the way you push and counterjungle, and the way you use your power in teamfights, but in most games she's in this stuff goes unnoticed. For those who don't play Shyvana, beating her feels "meh" and being beaten by her feels like getting steamrolled without any ability to fight back.

Aside from her playstyle being unhealthy, I also dislike the way Shyvana has become a tank - she was released as almost a melee carry, if anyone can remember. Up until her mini-rework in patch 3.9, Shyvana was not set in stone as a tank, and as much I was hyped to see Shyvana buffs at the time, I now see in hindsight how the changes cemented her new role. It moved her ult's passive stats to her passive, making her tankier from the beginning of the game and encouraging health building. It made her Dragon Form last longer innately, making building attack speed less rewarding. But most importantly, it made Flame Breath pass through targets and deal %hp Magic Damage instead of reducing armor and doing flat damage. This lowered her skillcap a bit, reduced any need for movespeed (to sidestep minions), and made building physical damage less rewarding.

I think overall, Shyvana needs a complete rework, one to return her to her damage oriented roots, and to make her more skillful and rewarding to play. Her niche as a champion should be "sustained mixed damage that becomes AoE during her ult," not "whack whack whack whack whack whack whack look im tanky lol".

BluePolarizerMay 19, 20151 votes

Pushing and counterjungling require a hell of alot more thinking than pressing buttons fast. Shyvana is one of the most strategically challenging champs in the game because losing with her isn't because you were mechanically outplayed, its because you got outsmarted by the enemy team. Shyvana wins games by outsmarting the enemy team in terms of global strategy the way Master Yi, Udyr, Twisted Fate and Pantheon win games.

People say Master Yi is easy in bronze - sure he's easy in bronze, because you are going against people who don't know what peel is.

People say Master Yi played well is good in gold - sure he's easy in gold, because all you need is to have fast reflexes and be mechanically OK to dodge enemy skillshots.

People say Cowsep is a mechanical god because he plays Yi and Shyvana in Korean diamond 1 - no, he's not just mechanically good, he has good STRATEGY. He knows when to gank, when to farm, when to fight, when to run, when to push lanes, when to retreat to the jungle, exactly how many camps he can take, the value of objectives, etc.

Old Shyvana was also urgot tier, btw.